STF posts

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by xnamerxx

So I'm registering for the SD national tour, which is on Easter btw such a bad choice, and I decided to check out the Georgia National Tour reg list just to see how STF is stacking up around the country.
The Georgia tour STF is one of the biggest classes, but its looking a little empty over here on the west coast. Almost makes me wish I was in Florida over So cal...almost.

Well got the first event of the year at San Diego tomorrow I'm hoping for a better performance than my last event.

STF as it sits makes about as much sense as B-Spec, its a good bit of money to be one of the slowest cars out there - in both Solo and Club Racing you can go a lot faster, have more people to play with and do it cheaper in other classes. Any time you have to break new ground, like you did with your header, that is seen as a barrier to those without the resources. Without some changes I doubt STF or B-Spec will become as big as the classes they are following/displacing.

[xnamerxx]

Your right.

But that barrier exists with any of the existing classes, $4k shocks for stock class or $1k tires that last 50 runs even for the cheapest classes. It would make much more sense to buy an existing race car that someone else dumped money into. As with any form of racing those with the money/means will probably perform better than you. As I see it right now I can't think of any class of racing that doesn't have a huge initial investment. Unless you enjoy racing 20-40yo cars and the maintenance headaches that come with it.

I could easily buy a Spec Miata or a Corvette and not have fun sitting back of the pack against a guy who has the means to replace his motor every season or a guy who can invest in brand new tires each event. I'm only surprised that there aren't more Civic Si's or Scion TC or whatever joining events. FWD cars in general don't have much membership here(as you know), could be because FWD is the devil, but not many people seem to race them. If I drove off to AZ i'd have some more people to play with but i'd probably be much faster than them.



So finished my event in SD today, my Co-Driver managed to have an unofficial PAX of 5th place but will probably drop a few places, I was only able to get unofficial of 8th place. I'm sure we'll both drop a few places once everything is finalized but still an impressive showing none the less.

[Steve35]

Thank you for letting me drive your car yesterday. You've done a great job on the car. The balance is great, it puts the power down very well and it has power!
Get a race set and get more seat time we'll see you start getting 1st all the time.

Steve

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by xnamerxx

Your right.

But that barrier exists with any of the existing classes, $4k shocks for stock class or $1k tires that last 50 runs even for the cheapest classes. It would make much more sense to buy an existing race car that someone else dumped money into. As with any form of racing those with the money/means will probably perform better than you. As I see it right now I can't think of any class of racing that doesn't have a huge initial investment. Unless you enjoy racing 20-40yo cars and the maintenance headaches that come with it.

I could easily buy a Spec Miata or a Corvette and not have fun sitting back of the pack against a guy who has the means to replace his motor every season or a guy who can invest in brand new tires each event. I'm only surprised that there aren't more Civic Si's or Scion TC or whatever joining events. FWD cars in general don't have much membership here(as you know), could be because FWD is the devil, but not many people seem to race them. If I drove off to AZ i'd have some more people to play with but i'd probably be much faster than them.



So finished my event in SD today, my Co-Driver managed to have an unofficial PAX of 5th place but will probably drop a few places, I was only able to get unofficial of 8th place. I'm sure we'll both drop a few places once everything is finalized but still an impressive showing none the less.

It is not a barrier in stock, it is a known quantity. There is an existing setup path for nearly every front running car out there. And the reality does not match the hype when it comes to shocks in stock, even those with purpose built mono-tubes are not typically spending $4k. Yes, the tires are expensive, and you need fresh ones to run up front, but that is known factor coming in.

What you have to battle in STF is the unknown cost. It is one thing to spend the money to replicate a winning setup and fail because as a driver you could not get it done. It is a completely different ball game when you are trying something new, and don't know what money you will see a return on in terms of performance and ability to sell it later - a set of stock class $4k shocks are worth something when you are done, a set of one-off STF shocks will have a much smaller resale market.

Quit spinning your wheel (the inside one) and go for an FSP build. Its only money.

[ilikerice]

Yes. I will be going fsp by summer. I want lsd so bad. U got a spare trans w lsd u wanna get rid of? Lol

[xnamerxx]

Jason quit trying to make me setup my car to be a more hateful DD experience LOL

There's no arguing that, there is that perception that you'll need the MOTON/KONI/PENKSE whatever just to win and its hard to argue when you see some amazingly fast cars running on whatever custom shocks they're running. I only know what I've been quoted and not wanting to make any particular company look back it was well above $5k, but that's probably not the typical cost.

You know I don't think my co-driver Steve35 had the inside spin problems I was having, might be due to his better right foot control but I don't think he mentioned it to me.

[Steve35]

Nope, no big wheel spin problems for me. The car was great, could it be better? Of course.

I wish you had your data logger...


Steve

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by xnamerxx

Jason quit trying to make me setup my car to be a more hateful DD experience LOL

Daily drive the Mustang.

LSD, flywheel, 13"x9" wheels, ECU, no cats.

[NJ Drive]

Does anyone know if the stock front sway bar is solid or hollow?

[CrankyOldMan]

Originally Posted by ilikerice

Yes. I will be going fsp by summer. I want lsd so bad. U got a spare trans w lsd u wanna get rid of? Lol

Hell, I'm about ready to pull the trigger on LSD/gear ratios/final drive and go straight up EP. I don't plan on going national with it, and I don't AutoX to win, so being laughably un-competitive in that class is no big deal. It's just where my egg will land when I get done scrambling it.

[xnamerxx]

It didn't feel heavy enough to me to be solid so I'm going to hazard a guess that its hollow.

Got Z2 street tires on, I'm pretty sure there not faster than the Toyo's, but they have the best steering feel of any tire I've ever driven on, there so unbelievably sharp, definitely one of the best street tires I've ever driven on.

[ilikerice]

Originally Posted by CrankyOldMan

Hell, I'm about ready to pull the trigger on LSD/gear ratios/final drive and go straight up EP. I don't plan on going national with it, and I don't AutoX to win, so being laughably un-competitive in that class is no big deal. It's just where my egg will land when I get done scrambling it.

I will probably end up in SM class by the end of the year. I really wanna go turbo. I think I made my debut last year by coming in 2nd overall and now I just wanna have some fun. I don't wanna get Rcomps yet til I get an LSD though.

[NJ Drive]

Originally Posted by xnamerxx

It didn't feel heavy enough to me to be solid so I'm going to hazard a guess that its hollow.

Got Z2 street tires on, I'm pretty sure there not faster than the Toyo's, but they have the best steering feel of any tire I've ever driven on, there so unbelievably sharp, definitely one of the best street tires I've ever driven on.

Thanks. I'm trying to decide if it's worth forgoing the front sway bar altogether or reinstall a smaller one.

What size ZIIs did you go with? I have a pair of 225/45/16 for the front. The Star Specs were already a great tire, can't wait to see how the ZIIs run. Pretty sure by now you've heard that the 195 Toyos aren't the only size that gets the good stuff all the way down either, according to Mr. Lugod.

[xnamerxx]

Well I kept the front bar for body roll reasons, I also didn't like the way the car felt running without it. The steering is really really numb without a front bar but you can get power down a little bit better. After running without it I found it was just better to run more spring in the back and call it a day.


Both the 50 and 55 get it afaik, but Lugod's in my region so I can ask him next event. From what I heard from Andy Hollis it was just those 2 sizes.

I went with the 225/45/16.

I don't expect any of the newcomers to overshadow the R1R's, even though I hate that tire with a passion it does work really well.

[NJ Drive]

One thing I've learned is that the clock trumps 'feel' any day. I remember first running my STR S2000 w/o a rear bar. It felt weird, I had to make adjustments to my driving, but ultimately was much faster w/o it than with it. I'm still kicking myself for being stubborn at Nationals in 2010 for not removing it because I didn't think it was quicker. Never again.

[xnamerxx]

Well yes and no, when going over my data it always showed that I had more corner speed with a bar than without, but I had better exit speed with the bar. My setup wasn't optimized for either bar or no bar so you never really got to know for sure if bar or no bar was better. Once I figured out the spring balance it felt better and was quite a bit faster than no bar on the previous setup. I think having the extra compliance over bumps is enough to make having a front bar worth it, rather than compensating with extra stiff springs.

Just for S n G's here is data from the last event of last year.

Data from a Miata course. I suck at braking.

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by NJ Drive

Thanks. I'm trying to decide if it's worth forgoing the front sway bar altogether or reinstall a smaller one.

What size ZIIs did you go with? I have a pair of 225/45/16 for the front. The Star Specs were already a great tire, can't wait to see how the ZIIs run. Pretty sure by now you've heard that the 195 Toyos aren't the only size that gets the good stuff all the way down either, according to Mr. Lugod.

Based on the OE 24.3mm spare bar I have I believe they are solid. It has no crimp marks on the ends, and based on its size it feels to heavy to be hollow. If you can find one there are 23.3mm OE bars out there, I have one on the HP car, came from an 07' sedan.

[NJ Drive]

Originally Posted by Jason@SportsCar

Based on the OE 24.3mm spare bar I have I believe they are solid. It has no crimp marks on the ends, and based on its size it feels to heavy to be hollow. If you can find one there are 23.3mm OE bars out there, I have one on the HP car, came from an 07' sedan.

Thanks for the reply Jason. I'm pretty sure that I have at least a 25mm front bar on my car(SE) too so I'm trying to eliminate as much on-throttle wheelspin as possible.

Namer, what spring rates were you running at the time with no bar?