Using the fan, heater

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by 1stToyota

If it does use extra fuel to run the heater, not enough to worry about. If they tell you that it'll put more load on the charging system and that'll somehow cause you to burn extra fuel...then ...don't run your headlights or wipers, they'll give a big hit to the MPG

Headlights and wipers are not optional. Using the heating system often is.

[UTVitz]

Click and Clack on NPR's CarTalk have had this question asked of them. Technically the answer is yes, but, in all reality it's not enough to even give a thought too. Your comfort and clarity of defogged windows is more important. Now I often don't run the fan in the interest of making the blower motor last a long, long, time. Since I never seem to get rid of my cars this has so far worked on a very old Jeep and Miata. How you drive the car is by far the best way to get good gas mileage.

[blktiger60]

Originally Posted by otterhere

Something's very wrong with the design if you have to ADD parts to make things work properly. Sloppy and disappointing coming from Toyota, IMO.



Now back to being positive!

The Yaris isn't the only vehicle out there that does this.
The Dodge Calibre does it too, that's one I know of for sure.

[Spades]

i almost always run with my heater set to floor/defrost because on the sedan i have, it wont kick the A/C compressor on. if you don't belive the compressor doesnt kick on, just listen to your engine, or if you have a tach, watch your RPM's, then turn the defrost on.
it kicks the a/c on, dropping your milage.

now, in the summer, I have tried it, I get about 2+mpg better running one window on my 4 door sedan down, than running with AC on. I am guessing that isnt as significant of drag increase as all windows down, because most studies show that all windows down is just as painful on economy as windows up and AC.

but, by the theory of "the electricity consumption of the heater should on paper lower milage", then i shouldnt be able to pull the milage i do with over 1500 watts of stereo gear running,lol.


EDIT: and as far as vehicles having the annoying booming sound with all or most windows down, and the AC kicking on when defrost is on, go drive more cars. been working on cars for a living for about 10 years now, and, most of them have these issues. alot of cars out there dont even have a windshield defrost that doesnt turn the AC on...its all or nothing,lol.

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by BailOut

Headlights and wipers are not optional. Using the heating system often is.

Using the headlights and wipers are going to take a hit on the MPG?!

[otterhere]

"...as far as vehicles having the annoying booming sound with all or most windows down...been working on cars for a living for about 10 years now, and, most of them have these issues..."

I could name ONE car* that didn't have that issue, but I think everyone's sick of hearing about it...


*2000 Suzuki Swift hatchback

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by 1stToyota

Using the headlights and wipers are going to take a hit on the MPG?!

Yes. Energy is not free. Anything at all in or on the car that requires electricity gets it from the alternator, or from the battery which is replenished by the alternator. Any load whatsoever on the alternator is in turn a load on the engine.

Is it a huge hit? No. But it is a hit.

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by BailOut

Yes. Energy is not free. Anything at all in or on the car that requires electricity gets it from the alternator, or from the battery which is replenished by the alternator. Any load whatsoever on the alternator is in turn a load on the engine.

Is it a huge hit? No. But it is a hit.

It's a load on the electrical system. The serpentine belt, rotating mass, etc are a load on the engine...using the turn signals isn't a hit on fuel economy. Besides, I never use the wipers...I just "plan ahead" and avoid those rain clouds.

[otterhere]

"Besides, I never use the wipers...I just "plan ahead" and avoid those rain clouds."


You're being facetious... Right?

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by otterhere

"Besides, I never use the wipers...I just "plan ahead" and avoid those rain clouds."


You're being facetious... Right?

It's a bailout joke around here, based on his theory about dodging. If he can avoid accidents by dodging deer that spring onto the road by planning ahead for it, I can dodge the raindrops.

[otterhere]

I actually use my wipers very sparingly; don't ask me why! I guess I think I'm saving wiper blade material or something. When it's not raining too hard, I just use my intermittant, and I actually turn them OFF at stoplights. Watch me wear out the switch.

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by otterhere

I actually use my wipers very sparingly; don't ask me why! I guess I think I'm saving wiper blade material or something. When it's not raining too hard, I just use my intermittant, and I actually turn them OFF at stoplights. Watch me wear out the switch.

I use lots of rain-x on this Yaris. Never had a car before that had a fixed intermittant wiper. If it's a light rain the rain-x saves me a lot on turning the switch on and off.

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by 1stToyota

It's a bailout joke around here, based on his theory about dodging. If he can avoid accidents by dodging deer that spring onto the road by planning ahead for it, I can dodge the raindrops.

I guess we have a 1stToyota joke now, too. Something about free energy and perpetual motion serpentine belts on the Yaris.

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by BailOut

I guess we have a 1stToyota joke now, too. Something about free energy and perpetual motion serpentine belts on the Yaris.

Are we pretending that belt driven accessories don't rob hp but using the turn signals and washers do?

Guess the sale of underdrive pulleys will be down now and Toyota will go back to belt driven power steering pumps and cooling fans... and they'll switch back to 6v systems so they'll take a lot less hits on the MPG

And energy isn't free...takes a voltage generator (alternator) and a reference source (battery), and of course a regulator/PCM to adjust for electrical loads. Thinking that using the radio will cause worse fuel economy is drastic and silly. And the reason the A/C uses more fuel is because it takes more force to operate the compressor with the a/c clutch engaged, vs a free-wheeling bearing, has nothing to do with current load on the alternator.

[toast]

If you want to make 1000% sure the compressor won't come on in the winter with the defrost running, pull the compressor fuse or pull the plug off the compressor. When it get's hot out, reinstall the fuse. If you're really hard core and want to make sure the neighbor doesn't borrow your car and run the a/c, snip the electrical wires to the compressor. With that said, come on folks the car get's great mileage even with using some comforts. Live a little. Oh and the booming window thing. I've found it's much better if both windows are open as opposed to just one. But I suppose that kills the aerodynamics so I guess I can't win. I will find my rock and go back under it now.

[colb]

I suppose a Yaris forum, if anywhere, would be the place where you'd expect to find people who can't get it through their heads that saving energy doesn't matter if you're not saving enough to notice.

Getting a tenth of a percent better gas mileage (like driving without DRLs during the day, or the fan on full blast, or using windshield wipers in the rain) just doesn't matter. It will not affect your wallet. It will not affect CO2 emissions. Does it really count as saving energy if there's no possible way you can ever notice it? Nope, not in the real world. If everybody saved a tenth of a percent of gas mileage, would it reduce our dependence on foreign oil? Nope.

This is often called "good engineering judgment" or alternatively "common sense."

[voodoo22]

Originally Posted by colb

I suppose a Yaris forum, if anywhere, would be the place where you'd expect to find people who can't get it through their heads that saving energy doesn't matter if you're not saving enough to notice.

Getting a tenth of a percent better gas mileage (like driving without DRLs during the day, or the fan on full blast, or using windshield wipers in the rain) just doesn't matter. It will not affect your wallet. It will not affect CO2 emissions. Does it really count as saving energy if there's no possible way you can ever notice it? Nope, not in the real world. If everybody saved a tenth of a percent of gas mileage, would it reduce our dependence on foreign oil? Nope.

This is often called "good engineering judgment" or alternatively "common sense."

Following this logic, will everyone please give me a tenth of a percent of their savings and salary?

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by colb

I suppose a Yaris forum, if anywhere, would be the place where you'd expect to find people who can't get it through their heads that saving energy doesn't matter if you're not saving enough to notice.

Getting a tenth of a percent better gas mileage (like driving without DRLs during the day, or the fan on full blast, or using windshield wipers in the rain) just doesn't matter. It will not affect your wallet. It will not affect CO2 emissions. Does it really count as saving energy if there's no possible way you can ever notice it? Nope, not in the real world. If everybody saved a tenth of a percent of gas mileage, would it reduce our dependence on foreign oil? Nope.

This is often called "good engineering judgment" or alternatively "common sense."

You completely missed out on the first tenet of engineering by failing to focus on the original problem. The original question was whether using these things uses more fuel, which it indeed does. The question was not whether it was worth worrying about or not.

Some people may not care but hypermilers strive to stretch every gallon of gasoline for all it is worth. 0.1% is a totally arbitrary number and may not sound like much but when you add it up over the course of your lifetime it becomes an easily trackable amount. For example, if you average 32 MPG then you use 0.03125 gallons per mile. If you drive 15,000 miles per year it requires 469 gallons of fuel. If you maintain this pattern from age 16 to age 75 it requires 27,656 gallons of fuel. 0.1% of that is 28 gallons, or 3 fill ups.