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Old 10-25-2006, 01:11 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firefly1_0
switching to synthetic oil on a new car is the g-hey.

wait four years, have a 100,000 Kms on it then make the switch unless you want to install new valve guides and seals.

you will be buring oil in no time if you switch.
WRONG!

http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/Mo...ics/Myths.aspx

http://choosetoprosper.com/synthetic-oil-myths.html

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/gener...tentId=7007980
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Old 10-25-2006, 02:21 PM   #38
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Firefly is getting smacked around like a redheaded stepchild on this thread...
What is "the g-hey" anyway?
I never thought I would see someone bash Synthetics. Thats like saying "Bricks Suck! Bricks can fall on your head and hurt you, use straw to build your house, nice soft straw."
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Old 10-25-2006, 02:42 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nsmitchell
Firefly is getting smacked around like a redheaded stepchild on this thread...
What is "the g-hey" anyway?
I never thought I would see someone bash Synthetics. Thats like saying "Bricks Suck! Bricks can fall on your head and hurt you, use straw to build your house, nice soft straw."
He's probably just a victim of past "wive's tales" about synthetics that were born out of ignorance and fear of new technology that somehow seem to hang on through the ages despite the overwhelming data and engineering proof to the contrary.
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Old 10-25-2006, 02:56 PM   #40
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i just prefer a longer wait. i never bashed them. that is all.


BTW
"the g-hey" = gay
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Old 10-25-2006, 04:22 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firefly1_0
i just prefer a longer wait. i never bashed them. that is all.


BTW
"the g-hey" = gay
No problem.

But consider this analogy...

You're born and the doctor says to your parents; "I can give this kid a drug right now that will drastically decelerate the rate at which his body ages and wears out"

Do you think your parents would have said; "Naw, we'll wait till he's 40..."
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Old 10-25-2006, 05:18 PM   #42
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i'll see your analogy and raise you one still on the fence...


...for now.
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Old 10-25-2006, 07:11 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07WYarisRS

good regular conventional oil at $3 and filter $5 $ 20

Mobil 1 and conventional oil recommend 5000km oil changes that 20 oil changes over 3 years
Amsoil recommends I year oil changes or every 35,000 miles (what ever comes first)

Amsoil ($65 x 3) = $195

Mobil1 ($ 35 x 20) = $700

Regular conventional oil ($20 X20) = $400

Now just think how much money I have saved in my laser with 300,000km on the odometer. 7 oil changes.
That's $455 with Amsoil vs $2100 with Mobil 1

I don't know about you guys but I would rather save my $$$ then give it to big huge oil companies that rip us off fuel fuel prices as well.
Solid logic and a great post!
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Old 10-25-2006, 08:41 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07WYarisRS
Besides the power you gain and fuel you save you can save a LOT of $$$ using amsoil.
With Amsoil 2000 0w-30 and Amsoil filter it's good for 35,000 miles or one year
figure that out compared to how many regular oil changes you will do at 500mile intervals plus filters etc
you save $$$ using Amsoil in most cases unless you are running the cheapest conventional oils out there.

lets use my truck (99 chevy Xtreme) as an example.
Before I sold it, I put 100,000km on it in three years

5L of Amsoil X $9.70 plus filter at 16.45 =$65

Mobil 1 at $ 6 and purolator filter at $5 = $35

good regular conventional oil at $3 and filter $5 $ 20

Mobil 1 and conventional oil recommend 5000km oil changes that 20 oil changes over 3 years
Amsoil recommends I year oil changes or every 35,000 miles (what ever comes first)

Amsoil ($65 x 3) = $195

Mobil1 ($ 35 x 20) = $700

Regular conventional oil ($20 X20) = $400

Even if you are like me and change your Amsoil every 6 months that still only $390.
It's still cheaper then using mobil1 or most conventional oils and a group IV or V synthetic will protect your engine and free up more HP MUCH better then any conventional or even group III oil.

Now just think how much money I have saved in my laser with 300,000km on the odometer. 7 oil changes.
And after 300,000km the compression is still perfect, does not use more then a liter of oil between changes, no dreaded DSM lifter tic, and no dreaded auto trans O/D clutch slip. That would have been 60 oil changes using regular oil or Mobil 1. That's $455 with Amsoil vs $2100 with Mobil 1

I don't know about you guys but I would rather save my $$$ then give it to big huge oil companies that rip us off fuel fuel prices as well.
I'd generally agree with this. But if you're running ANY oil a full 35K, You'd better have a few lab tests under your belt to prove that the filters and additive packages are holding up as designed based on your driving conditions and driving style.
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Old 10-26-2006, 12:33 AM   #45
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Good point and actually I have.
And not just Amsoil either. Over the past 10 years I've tested redline, Royalpurple, Maxima, Spectro,Yamalube, Hondaline, Motul and Mobil 1.
I've sent samples to US and canada to have lab testing done by independen labs there like Ana, blackstone and also Amsoil and Conklin. These places will test Any kind of oil and send the results back. It was much easier when i worked for a dealership but there are still independent labs out there that test for the general public.
All are good oil but Amsoil and redline products come back with the best results.

But if you read carefully I also said I change my oil every 6 months.
Why? Because I can, it's cheap insurance and it's still cheaper changing it every 6 months then using a cheaper oil and changing it every 5000km and i know I'm getting the best protection there is buy running a true synthetic


Here is one of my posts on the same topic I replied to earlier


QUOTE(doodoo @ Oct 25 2006, 10:59 AM)

I'd never leave oil in my car for 35000 miles no matter how good they say it is. Since when is mobil 1 refined dino juice? I thought it was the only major brand that was fully synthetic.





Well that's why I change my oil every 6 months. (see last paragraph of last post) I average about 30,000 to 35,000km a year. I change it once in the fall before the snow, once in the spring after the snow. That works out to about 15,000km per oil change. And even after 15,000km my oil is still looks great. It does not turn black like mineral based oils do.
I changed my oil in the Yaris back in June and it still looks new, I'll be changing it this weekend or next and it will stay in there until April or so. This works out great because I never need to change my oil in the cold or snow


Mobil 1 has been Hydrocracked mineral oil since back in the the days of the tri-synthetic (msds sheets are available)
but it is a full synthetic (sort of) just like Castrol Syntec.

Like Mobil 1 Syntec is a Group III synthetic. Castrol started this trend that most all synthetic oil manufacturers have switched to. What that means is that it is a highly refined Petroleum (dino-oil) is it's base stock. This happened several years ago and Mobil took them to court claiming Castrol couldn't call it a synthetic. Mobil said a synthetic is something man made in a lab to certain specs that can't be found in nature. Castrol said their process, called hydrocracking, was so good at refining the oil that it no longer resembled what is found in nature therefore it's a synthetic. The ruling was in Castrol's favor. Since then, pretty much ALL synthetics oils have switched over to the process, including Mobil 1, because it is cheaper to use this base stock rather than the traditional PAO base. Amsoil's XL-7500 line is a Group III oil but with much higher poa base stocks as mobil 1. Their regular line and Series 2000 line is still a PAO base group IV, or poloyolester Group V oil. Redline doesn't use this process either, and unless Royal Purple has changed in recent years, only their Racing Oils are a full PAO Group IV synthetic, most of the lines found on the shelf are a blend.

There still are questions on if this Group III synthetic is as good as the Group IVs. Since it's been a few years now, some results are coming back that the Group IIIs are not lasting as long as the Group IVs and some manufacturers that require synthetics in their products are looking into now saying it has to be a Group IV synthetic. This is because the Group IIIs still suffer the breakdown drawbacks that a petrolium does, once the additives get worn down. This has especially been noticed in Gear Lubes using a Group III oil.

BTW oil companies like Amsoil, Redline, Royal purple etc still buy their POA and Ester base stocks from companies like Exxon/Mobil.

FWIW we have a bypass system on several machines including daily driven trucks and our tractor. Lab results show after 100,000 km the oil is still perfect. With no mineral by products to oxidize and break down the oil maintains its viscocity and stability.
Now I no longer need to send in lab results.
I know for a FACT this oil will last well over 100,000km with a bypass system or just changing filters and with that in mind I have no problem leaving the oil in my car or truck for 6 months at a time.
Something that is truely amazing is the bypass systems ability to remove soot and particals so small the oil looks new after 100,000 km. What colors the oil and make it look black are the particles so small they pass through standard filters. Amsoils BP ilter will remove particles less then 1 micron and that removes that black color from the oil. So it always look new.
Thier are many truck lines that Use these products for 100,000-500,000 miles and after millions of miles they are still running like new. Just think how much Money they save in the long run.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey if people don't want to use Amsoil or one of the other top group IV-V oil like redline or royal purple...FINE, no problem.
I don't sell any of these products so there is no loss or gain to me.
But as a mechanic I want the best for my customers because I know a happy customer is a return customer.
I have a better reputation because my engines are strong, and LAST and don't break down
when needed the most. If my customers start getting DNF because of engine failures they are going to find a different engine builder. Ans using these products can give an engine that slight edge on the competition.
The same goes for everyone here...
I think the Yaris is a great little car and MOST buy them because they are cheap, fairly durable and good on fuel. I'm just telling people how they can preserve that, get better durability, performance, mileage and still save $$$.
And I understand that's not for everyone...
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Last edited by 07WYarisRS; 10-26-2006 at 12:59 AM.
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Old 10-26-2006, 01:47 AM   #46
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Excellent post 07WYarisRS



I totally agree.... I would change at 6months interval regardless of how good the oil is. During the operation of the engine, fuel, water vapour, dirt, dust and other contaminants get caught or mix in with the engine oil. Many of these contaminants are not necessarily removed by the oil filter, like petrol, water vapour and broken down oil modelcules.

I wouldn't want engine oil floating with these contaminants for another 6 months in my engine.

Anyways, doesn't really matter if your gonna sell up after 4years or so anyway...

Happy motoring....
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Old 10-26-2006, 05:45 AM   #47
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I used to work at a Toyota dealership and I think the mechanics there have no clue on the different oils. Personally I use Royal Purple in my Yaris and have noticed a great increase in smoothness and gas mileage. I asked one of the mechanics what kind of oil is the best and his reply was Mobil 1. He said that Mobil 1 was the only oil made of fully synthetics and no mineral oil. I used to run Mobil 1 and did not see any kind of dramatic changes like I see with Royal Purple. Another mechanic also said that Amsoil is not worth the money that it all is just a marketing ploy but I am here to tell you that the facts don't lie and personally I think the Toyota Mechanics have not done their homework on oils. They just go with what ever is in the shop that is bought in bulk. So I guess what Im saying is dont ask the Toyota mechanics about oil, ask someone that has a clue about oil or has used the oil and had improvements. FYI as far as synthetics go, when I was in the Air Force I had to analyze the oil in the aircraft and what kind of oil does the military trust? you guest it SYNTHETICS. and they showed almost no wear!!!!

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/member.php?u=943 This Man here knows his stuff and has done his homework.
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Old 10-26-2006, 08:29 AM   #48
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A very infomative thread. I have learned more then I ever wanted to know about oil. But seeing as I am about to switch to synthetic it has been quite helpful. I just have 2 quick questions. I have a 2007 Yaris HB with @ 8000 miles on it. I have had it into the dealer for 1 oil change. Looking at going with Amsoil 5W30. Would I realize any benefit if I flushed the system prior to the switch? And some recommedations on oil filters would be helpful (not a question but still counts as one)
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Old 10-26-2006, 10:29 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Befuddled
A very infomative thread. I have learned more then I ever wanted to know about oil. But seeing as I am about to switch to synthetic it has been quite helpful. I just have 2 quick questions. I have a 2007 Yaris HB with @ 8000 miles on it. I have had it into the dealer for 1 oil change. Looking at going with Amsoil 5W30. Would I realize any benefit if I flushed the system prior to the switch? And some recommedations on oil filters would be helpful (not a question but still counts as one)
With such little mileage I will be honest and say...you probably don't need an engine flush. What little deposits in there is not likely enough to clog up an oil filter, most will likely just settle in the sump pan (oil pan)
It's won't hurt anything to do it, but with only 8000miles I would not be worried about it.

Personally I use WIX (napa/uap) filters on engines that I change the oil every 6 months
Amsoil filters on engines that get oilchanges once a year or on bypass systems.
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Old 10-26-2006, 10:41 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by americanvitz
I used to work at a Toyota dealership and I think the mechanics there have no clue on the different oils. Personally I use Royal Purple in my Yaris and have noticed a great increase in smoothness and gas mileage. I asked one of the mechanics what kind of oil is the best and his reply was Mobil 1. He said that Mobil 1 was the only oil made of fully synthetics and no mineral oil. I used to run Mobil 1 and did not see any kind of dramatic changes like I see with Royal Purple. Another mechanic also said that Amsoil is not worth the money that it all is just a marketing ploy but I am here to tell you that the facts don't lie and personally I think the Toyota Mechanics have not done their homework on oils. They just go with what ever is in the shop that is bought in bulk. So I guess what Im saying is dont ask the Toyota mechanics about oil, ask someone that has a clue about oil or has used the oil and had improvements. FYI as far as synthetics go, when I was in the Air Force I had to analyze the oil in the aircraft and what kind of oil does the military trust? you guest it SYNTHETICS. and they showed almost no wear!!!!

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/member.php?u=943 This Man here knows his stuff and has done his homework.
Thanks
As for the Toyota mechanics
Dealerships will always recommend short oil change intervals.
Dealerships will also recommend they do it. Some will even go as far to say that if you don't have the dealer change the oil it will void the warranty. Let me just say this.
NO dealership can deny your warranty if you decide to do your own maintenance.
The maintenance oil line in the owner’s manual is there for a reason along with a schedule when it should be done. Providing you keep the receipts for parts and a record of when it was done, you will not void any warranty. (Except on aftermarket parts installed)
So why do dealers recommend they change the oil so much?
Why do so many dealers not recommend synthetic?

Let’s face it... It costs a lot to run a shop or a large business like a car dealership. You have utilities, shipping, insurance, employee wages, stock/inventory, shop supplies, office supplies, tools, and advertising etc every month to pay for and still make a profit to be successful.

They do this with high shop rates (usually $75-$100 p/h) and fluid changes...
Dealerships buy regular dino oil in large bulk volumes and depending on where they get it they get it for below wholesale usually less then $1L (maybe not now that oil prices are so high though but it's not over $2) Most Canadian dealers buy oil from Shell or Esso. They also get oil filters direct from the mfg at prices below wholesale. (Usually $1-$2 each)
Now most dealerships charge about $25-$30 per oil change. My local Toyota dealer charges $29.95.
Think about that.
That's like $6 per liter they charge
That's about $5 worth of oil and filters and $20 to $25 profit off every oil change.
They make over $1000 per drum of oil. About 46 oil changes.
The more oil changes they can do the better. Most will go though at least one drum a week that's over $4000
Some big dealerships can go through 55 gallon every two days. YEAH that a lot of $$$
Now synthetic in bulk is a lot more money sometimes 3X the cheap stuff and therefore not as big of profits so they tend to push the cheap stuff and toss out a few myths about synthetics to keep you buyin the cheap stuff.
However Toyota does deal directly with mobil And most do offer Mobil1 so if they do push a synthetic it's going to be mobil1. Dealerships will charge you extra for the synthetic.

I know my small town Toyota dealer does not sell a car everyday, sometimes they will go 2-3 days with no sales but they always have the shop booked up for oil changes, transmission fluid changes, coolant flushes, tire rotations and the very basic maintenance usually all day long everyday. And just like a quick lube center that make great $$$ of simple fluid changes.

I'll be honest with ya. I could do 95% of my reapirs and maintenace but what about the small town dealership?
Even though I could do it I still take my cars in once in a while for simple things like tire rotations, brake inspections, etc.
I do this because it helps the dealership and I know they apperciate my buiness. The big city dealerships can all kiss my ass though LOL
They often charge even more then the little guys just out of greed.
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Old 10-26-2006, 10:46 AM   #51
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Oh one more thing

What about the warranty?
The dealership is going to want to see receipts for oil changes should you have an internal engine problem. (very rare but it happens)
If you are like me and drive the wheels off you car, 8000K oil changes seem like a monthly thing.
What I do is every 8000km I go buy 5 L of oil and a filter, keep the receipt, copy it and return the oil and filter to the store.

I run my Amsoil for 6 months and if I ever have a problem I have proof I have changed my oil every 8000km just to keep Toyota happy.
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Old 10-26-2006, 11:05 AM   #52
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hahahaha

nice plan!
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...and the engine is way smaller.



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Old 10-28-2006, 12:30 AM   #53
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The workshop here is recommending HKS fully synthetic oil for NA engines, it's a bit pricey ($100 a can), does anyone have experience with it?

They also have Mobil 1, and castrol Syntec / Magnatec (is that a gimmick or does it really work?)
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Old 10-28-2006, 10:30 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eTiMaGo
The workshop here is recommending HKS fully synthetic oil for NA engines, it's a bit pricey ($100 a can), does anyone have experience with it?

They also have Mobil 1, and castrol Syntec / Magnatec (is that a gimmick or does it really work?)
The only HKS oils I've seen are 10w-50 and 10w-40 oils
That's too heavy for a daily driven economy car like the Yaris and $100 for 4 liters absolutly phucking retareded.
Use 0w-30, or 5w-30 synthetic unless you run you car wide open for hours on end.

Don't buy an oil without knowing who makes it. Think about it. HKS does not drill and refine their own oil so they buy it from someone and just slap thier name on it. For all you know it could be Castrol Syntec, Neo or Mobil 1 in there and your going to pay $100 for a cheap as oil. Even if it is A better oil like Amsoil, Redline or Royal Purple it's priced way to high.
Order yourself sone Amsoil or redline 0w-30 or 5w-30. If you live in an area where the winters are cold, or you have frequent cold starts I recommend Amsoil 2000 0w-30. For hotter climates 5w-30 is perfect.
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