Toyota Yaris Forums - Ultimate Yaris Enthusiast Site
 

 


 
Go Back   Toyota Yaris Forums - Ultimate Yaris Enthusiast Site > Technical Forums > Performance Modifications
  The Tire Rack

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-13-2015, 10:43 PM   #1
CoryM
 
Drives: 2009 5-door, 5-speed
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 687
unusual engine swap

Hey guys,

So I bought a Yaris because I figured I was old, mature and boring enough to accept that the less money I spend on a daily-driver, the more I can play with on other things. Well..... I'm not. The lack of power is starting to seriously grind on me, as is the lack of LSD. I do like the Yaris, and intend to keep it until it is no longer viable to drive it. So I started looking at options, gave up on the 1.5L, and I've pretty much settled on..... an ecotec. I'm talking either the 2.0L S/C (200hp,200ft) or the 2.4L N/A (175hp,165ft). I don't like turbos so that's out.

Now before you get out your pitchforks, let me explain my reasoning:

-toooooorque. Sweet, blessed torque. I don't like low torque/high revving engines (which is why I gave up on the 2zz)
-cheap. Can probably get a wrecked SS cobalt for $500-1000
-LSD. Available in some 2.0L SC, or if go with 2.4L can buy a trans from the turbo cars (price would probably wash out due to lower cost of 2.4L car).
-aftermarket support means cheaper mods later if required
-engine management is free (I already have some GM credits for HPtuners)
-I'm more familiar with GM engines than Toyota
-light enough to not ruin the handling.
-the ecotec powertrain is reasonably reliable, even if the rest of the Cobalt falls apart around it.
-size is doable so long as I don't have to notch the framerails too much.

I am a mechanic, have done several RWD swaps (never a FWD though), and have designed and built a racecar from scratch. In terms of ability, I can do this fairly easy. Budget wise, I figure I could do this for under $2500 so long as I buy the right donor.

Potential issues:
-CV axles. The output of the ecotec trans are quite wide apart. The CVs would be short. I am not sure of how short then can be before issues arise.
-pretty sure the a/c has to go
-P/S. Can you keep this functional w/o the toyota ECU/cluster?

I like the thought of the 2.4L as it runs on 87oct, and can be tuned to around 170whp/170ft with just intake/exhaust. The S/C has potential to make 250whp pretty easy, but the 94oct and less reliability could get tiring (and take $ away from more fun projects). This is still intended to just be a reliable daily driver. Can always bolt a S/C on the 2.4L too if I get bored/rich.

Obviously I need to do some pretty careful measurements before getting too carried away, but initial/rough measurement are promising.

Can anyone think of an issue I will run into not knowing FWD swaps?

Cheers.
Cory

Last edited by CoryM; 04-24-2015 at 10:08 PM.
CoryM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2015, 11:00 PM   #2
CTScott
ULTIMATE
 
CTScott's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 5dr LB, 2x 08 3dr LB
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: USA, CT
Posts: 13,460
Space for ample cooling can be an issue with a larger engine swap.

I personally would stick with a Toyota engine, but maybe that's just me.

For power steering, the Yaris EPS is able to stand alone and is a popular choice for retrofitting into small track cars, as it is relatively light. I have sold a couple of sets of Yaris steering columns with PS ECUs for that purpose.
__________________
CTScott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2015, 11:17 PM   #3
CoryM
 
Drives: 2009 5-door, 5-speed
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 687
Thanks Scott.

I can't think of a non-turbo Toyota engine that is small/light enough, has torque, and can get LSD cheaply. I don't really care about brand loyalty, and the ecotec is a fairly solid engine. Like I said, GM powertrain and I get along fairly well.

P/S wise: Without the speed signal from the engine ecu, assist is full power all the time right?. Is there a way to allow it to reduce power assist at speed w/o the toyota ecu?

Thanks.
Cory
CoryM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2015, 03:31 PM   #4
CTScott
ULTIMATE
 
CTScott's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 5dr LB, 2x 08 3dr LB
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: USA, CT
Posts: 13,460
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoryM View Post
Thanks Scott.

I can't think of a non-turbo Toyota engine that is small/light enough, has torque, and can get LSD cheaply. I don't really care about brand loyalty, and the ecotec is a fairly solid engine. Like I said, GM powertrain and I get along fairly well.

P/S wise: Without the speed signal from the engine ecu, assist is full power all the time right?. Is there a way to allow it to reduce power assist at speed w/o the toyota ecu?

Thanks.
Cory
The PS ECU takes a standard pulse proportional to speed input signal, so you would likely be able to feed it the SPD signal off your new tranny to have it work normally.
__________________
CTScott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2015, 09:18 PM   #5
CoryM
 
Drives: 2009 5-door, 5-speed
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTScott View Post
The PS ECU takes a standard pulse proportional to speed input signal, so you would likely be able to feed it the SPD signal off your new tranny to have it work normally.
Nice. That makes it easy.
Thanks as always.
CoryM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2015, 08:36 AM   #6
bronsin
 
bronsin's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 Base Hatch 2 Dr Auto
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: nj
Posts: 4,790
First person I ever heard who said the Yaris engine wasn't good enough for them! The Yaris engine is 106hp. By comparison the 1972 BMW 2002 TTI (fuel injected) was 100 hp and considered awesome in its day.

I had my ECHO with the same engine up to 106 mph on the NJTPK once when passing a left lane blocker who sped up when you tried to pass him using the center lane.

He matched my speed briefly but backed down when I put my foot on the floor and left it there come what may!

Three other cars (BMWs and MB) tried and failed to get past him. (Saab) Whimps!

1.5 liter Yaris good enough for me!
__________________
Synthetic Oil: Its All In Your Head
bronsin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2015, 09:35 AM   #7
Bluevitz-rs
1NZ-6spd
 
Bluevitz-rs's Avatar
 
Drives: '05 6-Spd Vitz RS
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,966
I've seen pictures of a Toyota V6 swapped into a Yaris. Although I think you're stuck with an auto transmission unless you can get a E153 transmission to bolt up.
Bluevitz-rs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2015, 12:49 PM   #8
nortonfb
 
Drives: 2007
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: motown
Posts: 339
Having owned a 2002 (1974), the thought just brings a smile to my face.
I used a motor out of a '79 320I and a 2 barrel carb and a cam.
Yaris is not in the same universe.
Norton
nortonfb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2015, 03:32 PM   #9
CoryM
 
Drives: 2009 5-door, 5-speed
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 687
The 1.5L is a great little engine. It's just the "little" part that is the problem for me. It's about 1.0L too small. All I want is around 180-200hp with good torque,LSD, and still handle. Turbos are out, the blitz is too spendy ( I've looked at using other, cheaper blowers too), and then I still need to throw $500-1000 to get LSD. The 2zz has the power, but up to 5000rpm I may as well have the 1.5L. 2zz is also expensive and hard to find. Other toyota motors are way too heavy.

I could probably find a suitable cobalt donor in a month or two. $1000 or less to buy the car, $200 in cooling, $200 in fuel, re-use what exhaust possible, mounts $50, air intake $100, $50 in electrical, CV axle respline $200, clutch fittings/pedal ($200 worse case scenario), $100 in raw materials.

Then sell whatever I can from the donor cobalt to reduce cost. Even if I end up spending $3-4k on it, it's still less than a Blitz, has way more power and a LSD. Weight is probably only 150-200lbs more so won't ruin handling. And this is talking about the 2.4L with OE reliability and on 87octane.

I have to admit, this is a very polite forum. I was expecting more flaming for bastardizing a Yaris I'm going to continue to look into it and take some careful measurements. It probably wouldn't be until next summer that I do it (this summer is to play with the 300hp, 1700lb racecar )

Thanks for any input; positive or negative.
Cory
CoryM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 09:23 AM   #10
3cyltrbo
 
Drives: MR2 Spyd/Type R/Yaris/Civic Si
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoryM View Post
Thanks Scott.

I can't think of a non-turbo Toyota engine that is small/light enough, has torque, and can get LSD cheaply. I don't really care about brand loyalty, and the ecotec is a fairly solid engine. Like I said, GM powertrain and I get along fairly well.

P/S wise: Without the speed signal from the engine ecu, assist is full power all the time right?. Is there a way to allow it to reduce power assist at speed w/o the toyota ecu?

Thanks.
Cory
K20 from Honda!!!!.

The K series absolutely crushes any Toyota 4cyl or the Ecotec for that matter.

Also, the K20A is quite small (externally) and has its ancillaries in similar locations to the 1NZFE (intake on drivers side / exhaust manifold on the back etc...)

Honestly I don't know why someone hasn't thought of it before (the K20A). Even the "regular" version from the base RSX and the EP3 Civic is a great motor and can be had pretty cheap.

Or what about a K24 from Accords and the CRV, they are a dime a dozen and if you want torque!......................................:thum bsup:

As for swapping in a Toyota 1.8litre......................why bother? If you're already talking about modifications to frame rails / wiring harness etc... why not just put something decent in?

I've got two cars with the Toyota 1.8 in different tunes (Mr2 Spyder and Pontiac Vibe), granted they aren't the version with VVTli, but I've also driven that engine in a Celica GTs. I'm here to tell you that the K20 crushes all the Toyota 1.8 variants ....... in all aspects, hands down (that's why people are starting to swap K20's into everything from RX7's to S2000's to MR2 Spyders) Hell, there are even guys on the MR2Spyder message boards that are taking out their stupid 1.8's and swapping in the 1NZFE with boost.

Cliffs Notes = go drive a 2006/7 Civic Si and then imagine that engine in a car 600lbs lighter

Will
3cyltrbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 09:44 AM   #11
WeeYari
 
WeeYari's Avatar
 
Drives: 06 Polar White 5dr, 13 Soul 4u
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Georgetown, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,739
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3cyltrbo View Post
Honestly I don't know why someone hasn't thought of it before (the K20A). Even the "regular" version from the base RSX and the EP3 Civic is a great motor and can be had pretty cheap.
There have been a few done. Here is one of them http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49933

__________________
WeeYari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 02:10 PM   #12
junorico24
 
junorico24's Avatar
 
Drives: toyota yaris yrs
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 642
Quote:
Originally Posted by bronsin View Post
First person I ever heard who said the Yaris engine wasn't good enough for them! The Yaris engine is 106hp. By comparison the 1972 BMW 2002 TTI (fuel injected) was 100 hp and considered awesome in its day.

I had my ECHO with the same engine up to 106 mph on the NJTPK once when passing a left lane blocker who sped up when you tried to pass him using the center lane.

He matched my speed briefly but backed down when I put my foot on the floor and left it there come what may!

Three other cars (BMWs and MB) tried and failed to get past him. (Saab) Whimps!

1.5 liter Yaris good enough for me!
Why y0u picking 0n 0lder cars. The Mazda 2, suzuki swift, and maybe even the Hyundai accent can get by a Yaris. L0L.

The 1.5 engine is fantastic, n0t great. I have had it since brand new back then it was a sm00th and can get up hills n0 pr0b.

As they get 0ld they are sl0w.I w0uld upgrade t0 s0mething with a bit m0re p0p. K20 0r 2zr that can keep pr0viding that p0wer.
junorico24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 06:58 PM   #13
7:34pm
 
Drives: 07 Yaris
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 132
I enter this sub forum every day hoping for some break-through performance discovery or plug and play engine swap.

The K20a3 swap would indeed be killer. Wonder if the motor can mount to the trans with an adapter or the trans has to be swapped as well.
7:34pm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 07:43 PM   #14
3cyltrbo
 
Drives: MR2 Spyd/Type R/Yaris/Civic Si
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeeYari View Post
There have been a few done. Here is one of them http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49933

ZOMG WTF BBQ





3cyltrbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2015, 10:26 PM   #15
CoryM
 
Drives: 2009 5-door, 5-speed
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3cyltrbo View Post
K20 from Honda!!!!.

The K series absolutely crushes any Toyota 4cyl or the Ecotec for that matter.
I definitely considered the K20 from 06+ Civic Si as they come with LSD, and there are enough of them around to actually find a donor. I opted for the ecotec over it for a few reasons:

-Cost of donor. Can get an ecotec for much less
-For me, engine management for the ecotec is free.
-Biggest reason- the K20 compares closer to the S/C ecotec in terms of reliability (8K redline is asking a lot) and cost to operate (premium fuel). The ecotech has the same power, and 60ft/lbs more torque. That's huge. Plus much easier/cheaper to get more power when desired.

While the K20 would be a great choice for some (probably better as a track-day engine), I want low revving torque for my daily-driver/winter-autoX car. Torque is what you can actually use on the street, where as high-revving K20s take a while to get going (and by then it's too late or unsafe to do what you wanted anyhow).

I'm still leaning towards the 2.4L NA though as 87octane is nice, and 170whp/170ftlbs would be decent in the Yaris. But 94 octane with the 2.0L S/C would get me 240whp really easy/safely..... so tempting.

Thanks for the input.
Cory
CoryM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2015, 08:57 AM   #16
ilikerice
 
ilikerice's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 black yaris
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: savannah, ga
Posts: 2,868
Quick question.. in SCCA Solo events. Street Modified allows you to swap motors as long as they are from the same manufacturer. So, putting a Honda motor in a Toyota, that puts you in Modified class, correct? This is territory I have not done research on and curious is anyone has already done this. I will read up on it later, but right now, not the time.
__________________
-Derrick-
"Racing is important to men who do it well. When you're racing... It's life. Anything that happens before or after, is just waiting."
ilikerice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2015, 11:35 AM   #17
CoryM
 
Drives: 2009 5-door, 5-speed
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikerice View Post
Quick question.. in SCCA Solo events. Street Modified allows you to swap motors as long as they are from the same manufacturer. So, putting a Honda motor in a Toyota, that puts you in Modified class, correct? This is territory I have not done research on and curious is anyone has already done this. I will read up on it later, but right now, not the time.
Yeah. Mod class which (around here at least) you are going to get killed. My +10°C tires are NT01s so I'm in HS-R. STF seems to be the best chance to PAX win.
Cheers.
CoryM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2015, 03:14 PM   #18
invader166
Pumpman
 
Drives: 2019 Kia Soul EV Base
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Langley, BC
Posts: 434
I don't wanna be an ass or anything, you know exactly what you want and how to get it, but since this is Toyota, have you ever considered going hybrid?

There's been news about a Hybrid-R since 2013 and I believe the powertrain will be tested to the max in the upcoming 2017 WRC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09J6kF3tQds

Who knows, might be worth waiting for?

http://www.testdriven.co.uk/toyota-yaris-hybrid-r/
__________________
"I would rather loose by a mile in a car I built myself, then win by an inch in a car that was built for me." - Moog
invader166 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Toyota's new subcompact will use Mazda's Skyactiv engine Kal-El Off-topic / Other Cars / Everything else Discussions 43 03-25-2014 01:01 AM
engine swap djhuddy2442 Performance Modifications 6 04-11-2013 01:05 AM
Boost Gets U Laid eh? Count me In yaris2010RS Forced Induction Forum 128 02-02-2013 04:57 PM
Scion/Yaris engine swap mrrock Performance Modifications 1 03-02-2011 06:56 PM
The last gas question Tonavi DIY / Maintenance / Service 56 04-27-2009 08:40 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:36 AM.




YarisWorld
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.