Detroit - Think they'll ever 'get it'?

[Altitude]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e99e8514-f...0779fd2ac.html

[kou]

They should have stopped making large vehicles along time ago,you could probaly make three yaris out of one suburban. they also should have brought some of the overseas vehicles to the US awhile ago.

[firemachine69]

The Suburban has it's place. Actually, I plan on acquiring one in the next little while.

[SilverBack]

Yeah they'll get it, when they're FINISHED (which is pretty much NOW). This larger-than-life thinking by the Big-3 has stuck around for decades, so IMO they're not gonna be able to shake their stubborn ways and get on the bandwagon soon enough to survive. Think they would better off if they sold-out completely to the companies that are still dominating right now even during the recession. It's like a very old dog that's no longer good for nothing. Why sit around and watch it suffer? Grab the gun and take him behind the barn already...

And yes, I agree that bigger cars are better for families, but to be honest I can't remember the last time I've seen more just a driver inside an Escalade

[SailDesign]

Originally Posted by firemachine69

The Suburban has it's place.

Can you elaborate? I am honestly trying to figure out how the rest of the world survives without such a beast.

[SilverBack]

^THANK YOU!!!

[TLyttle]

Seconded, SailDesign. After watching GM tell the public what they really need for 60 years, I really don't think anything less than complete obliteration will give them the message. Certainly, the Subhuman only has a place because GM says so.

One doesn't have to spend a lot of time in Europe to realise that there is a Better Way, whether it be public transit, automobiles, multi-seat family vehicles, or recycleables. GM has been spending more time and money building huge bureaucracies that should have been spent building practical vehicles. How many cupholders does a vehicle need?????

[Thirty-Nine]

Originally Posted by firemachine69

The Suburban has it's place.

I agree. Towing a boat, ATVs, horse trailers, etc. It's great for towing and bringing several people with you.

[SilverBack]

Originally Posted by TLyttle

Seconded, SailDesign. After watching GM tell the public what they really need for 60 years, I really don't think anything less than complete obliteration will give them the message. Certainly, the Subhuman only has a place because GM says so.

One doesn't have to spend a lot of time in Europe to realise that there is a Better Way, whether it be public transit, automobiles, multi-seat family vehicles, or recycleables. GM has been spending more time and money building huge bureaucracies that should have been spent building practical vehicles. How many cupholders does a vehicle need?????

It's funny you mention that. The LB has 7 spaces for cups and bottles, and 3 glove boxes. Yet that doesn't even count as a sliver of what makes the car successful around the world. Toyota saw the big picture first and then went back to tackle the details, which is pretty much vice-versa of the Big-3's strategy. ..Too many stupid details, not enough paying attention to the rest of world...

Originally Posted by Thirty-Nine

I agree. Towing a boat, ATVs, horse trailers, etc. It's great for towing and bringing several people with you.

I'm all for using pick-ups and SUVs for heavy-duty towing and hauling, but how many people out there will actually do this? I see nothing but look-alike soccer moms (hot ones too!) out there using their 4-ton road-hogs to haul their big heavy *drum roll please* FRAPPUCCINOS!!

BTW I'm not any way blasting on anyone who needs a high-powered vehicle for actual heavy-duty work

[firemachine69]

Military agencies.
Police agencies.
Special Security Details.
Need I go on?



And if you think Toyota is any smarter than the big three, you only need to look at the new Venza - and the including stats.

4000lbs and 20 inch wheels is what now?

[SilverBack]

That's just in more recent times. Toyota has always done well with it's smaller cars for ages, but I have to admit it's probably not a good move for them to add another SUV at this time. They're still somewhat doing better than the Big-3 though

[firemachine69]

Originally Posted by k r a y z e e . j o j o

That's just in more recent times. Toyota has always done well with it's smaller cars for ages, but I have to admit it's probably not a good move for them to add another SUV at this time. They're still somewhat doing better than the Big-3 though

No, it's frankly retarded. Toyota speaks of seeing the writing five years ago on the wall - but they started up production for a new, heavy-ass, uni-frame "suv", with oversized wheels, not to mention the almost 40K price tag... That tells me they were just riding on luck and good fortunes, not good predictions of the future.


Like said, there will be a need for Suburbans in the future (care to guess how many military contractors purchase these?), albeit at a much smaller rate of production than in the past, of course.

[kou]

ok so the military and such can have them but there really is no need for a civilian to be driving around being the only one in the car,if you dont see that as a waste you never will.if it is for work and you have commercial plates that fine otherwise it is a waste of resources.

[supmet]

Originally Posted by firemachine69

No, it's frankly retarded. Toyota speaks of seeing the writing five years ago on the wall - but they started up production for a new, heavy-ass, uni-frame "suv", with oversized wheels, not to mention the almost 40K price tag... That tells me they were just riding on luck and good fortunes, not good predictions of the future.


Like said, there will be a need for Suburbans in the future (care to guess how many military contractors purchase these?), albeit at a much smaller rate of production than in the past, of course.

The venza starts at around $25k, is a car(I could see how you're confused by its 63 inch height and 4 inches of ground clearance), and gets about double the mpg of the suburban. And just because toyota makes smart cars doesn't mean they aren't going to cater to american car buyers.

You should just throw away all the good things toyota has done because you don't like their newest car though.(I'll stick with them... something about seeing 50 hondas and toyotas older than 1990 for everyone 1 american car that old really gets to me.

edit: military/armored suburbans aren't suburbans.. They are custom suspension, engines, frames, exhaust, doors, bodies, windows, all shaped to look like a suburban... your burb will last you 100k miles if you're lucky bone stock. Throw 4000 extra pounds of armor and you'll get 5, maybe 10k miles out of the stock parts... But its interesting you bring this up... If it weren't for gov't contracts for ford and GM, do you think they'd still be around? The answer is not a chance in hell.

[yaris-me]

GM may not get it right, but it needs to survive in order to have an economic recovery. This has nothing to do with getting it right. The Obama administration will do what ever it takes to get the economy going. The auto industry holds the key to two million jobs.

[TLyttle]

Along with everyone else, Toyota didn't see the Crash coming, and it is likely that this new SUV was too far down the production like to stop it.

As far as Toyota trucks are concerned, a good friend is waiting for the new Toyota duallie to come out; his name is already on a list of buyers so that he can get rid of his POS (Dodge). Above and beyond its regular maintenance, the POS has cost him another 20 grand for repairs not covered by warranties, and I'm not talking collisions or abuse, just crappy materials/workmanship. If the Big 3 can't even build trucks any more, they become pointless.

As far as jobs are concerned, why would anyone think that these 2 million jobs would just disappear? There is still a market there, and anyone who thinks that Toyota et al aren't going to expand to fill the gap isn't paying attention. I'm not convinced the the workers at the Big 3 plants have GM or Ford or Chrysler have the company logo tattooed on their foreheads, and would be pleased to work for other manufacturers.

[ChinoCharles]

Thread cleaned.

If anyone has a problem with the way this forum is nowadays, you are more than welcome to leave. Nobody is twisting your arm making you sign on and post.

[supmet]

Originally Posted by TLyttle

Along with everyone else, Toyota didn't see the Crash coming, and it is likely that this new SUV was too far down the production like to stop it.

As far as Toyota trucks are concerned, a good friend is waiting for the new Toyota duallie to come out; his name is already on a list of buyers so that he can get rid of his POS (Dodge). Above and beyond its regular maintenance, the POS has cost him another 20 grand for repairs not covered by warranties, and I'm not talking collisions or abuse, just crappy materials/workmanship. If the Big 3 can't even build trucks any more, they become pointless.

As far as jobs are concerned, why would anyone think that these 2 million jobs would just disappear? There is still a market there, and anyone who thinks that Toyota et al aren't going to expand to fill the gap isn't paying attention. I'm not convinced the the workers at the Big 3 plants have GM or Ford or Chrysler have the company logo tattooed on their foreheads, and would be pleased to work for other manufacturers.

I'm gonna post briefly on this... Talking about the bailouts(auto and mortgage) severely raises my blood pressure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ford_factories
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ing_facilities

Most trucks from ford are built in.......... MEXICO
Most cars from toyota are built in.......... AMERICA

Not to mention, if we just let the american car companies die, yes, toyota and honda would be glad to put 2 million americans to work.

American car companies have had every advantage - first on the car scene, harsh tariffs on imports, government contracts, dumb americans buying 7 mpg hummers when gas is 5 bucks a gallon, adjusting EPA regulations to suit their needs - after all that, you still want my tax dollars to save your failing business??

(the funny thing is, none of this is what really gets to me... giving MY money to people who have already proved the only thing they are good for is losing billions of dollars for no good reason is what pisses me off..)