New 2012 Yaris L, 5 speed

[roxy1]

Originally Posted by KentSzabo

Just filled up 30 minutes ago got 43.13 on this tankful.
The background of the picture is my house.
The Lagoon Blue Mica appears to be different shades depending on the amount of light that hits it.

I am quite happy and satisfied with this car, it lacks the acceleration of my Golf TDI, but corners really well giving the feeling it is on rails going around curves. I was going to get a Scion iQ, but because they are not offering the 6 Speed manual in this country and only the doggy CVT automatic, I had my dealer cancel my order and switch it to a Yaris back in September. I have been enticing those prospective iQ buyers that want a manual transmission to look at the Yaris. See url:
http://www.iq-forums.com/forums/scio...smissions.html

i had been excited about the IQ way back when.i had really hoped it would be offered with a manual and be rated somewhere aroung 36 city/48 hwy.

if im giving up utility i should get stellar mileage. id bet my left arm the '12 yaris (MT) will have a greater advantage over the iq in hwy mileage than the estimates indicate.

[CanIHazYarisHatch?]

Originally Posted by KentSzabo

Just filled up 30 minutes ago got 43.13 on this tankful.
The background of the picture is my house.
The Lagoon Blue Mica appears to be different shades depending on the amount of light that hits it.

Nice...

I am quite happy and satisfied with this car, it lacks the acceleration of my Golf TDI, but corners really well giving the feeling it is on rails going around curves. I was going to get a Scion iQ, but because they are not offering the 6 Speed manual in this country and only the doggy CVT automatic, I had my dealer cancel my order and switch it to a Yaris back in September. I have been enticing those prospective iQ buyers that want a manual transmission to look at the Yaris. See url:
http://www.iq-forums.com/forums/scio...smissions.html

Yes, the lack of a proper manual will bury this car. It won't sell as poorly as the dumb FourTwo, but it won't get big numbers (MPG or sales figures) with a freaking CVT.

Originally Posted by roxy1

i had been excited about the IQ way back when.i had really hoped it would be offered with a manual and be rated somewhere aroung 36 city/48 hwy.

if im giving up utility i should get stellar mileage. id bet my left arm the '12 yaris (MT) will have a greater advantage over the iq in hwy mileage than the estimates indicate.

Shorter length cars actually sacrifice highway MPG due to aerodynamics, just look at the Fiat 500, as an example. Tons of B-segment cars get equal to better mileage due to more streamlining in their designs (longer chassis/wheelbase/bodywork).

It's the same reason the dumb FourTwo also doesn't get the MPGs it "should" in the eyes of many consumers.

I'm just grateful that we live in times of so many choices when it comes to small cars. I'm not exactly living in Europe (Renault Twingo Sport, please), but the C, and especially the B-segment are really heating up here in the U.S., and I'm enjoying the show.

For the better part of 20 years here, many small cars were usually just the breadcrumbs of the manufacture's efforts, and it showed. It showed in sub-par handling, rubbery gear changes, shoddy interior fit-and-finish, inhuman ergonomics, and general poor refinement. These were the times of the Cavalier and Tempo, dark times indeed.

Now these companies have to fight to the death, designing great small cars for us in the U.S. Europeans take it for granted, they have dozens of choices in just the B-segment, as one example. Now, we are getting a taste of quality small cars and we are loving it. One time the consumer wins, so savor it while it lasts.

[roxy1]

Originally Posted by CanIHazYarisHatch?

Shorter length cars actually sacrifice highway MPG due to aerodynamics, just look at the Fiat 500, as an example. .

generally true vs a sedan counterpart, but small hatches can still be very fuel effiecient.

i had a 2012 fiat 500 for 5 months. unbelievably vault like and very refined on the highway. i had the manual which is rated the same as the yaris at 30/38. for the whole 4200 miles i had it my real mpg was 44.2. even the drivers on the fiat forum who dont try much are getting 40+ with the mt.

the auto on that car is another story..not efficient at all.

what killed it for me was the center shift pod, which keeps the drivers right knee from being able to splay out to the right at all. basically your knee is smashed against it all the time. i convinced myself id get used to it but i never did. (i got a ridiculous purchase price from carmax and they proceeded to try to sell it above msrp, dropping the price every few weeks until they finally sold it).

a secondary concern was that the studio that was supposed to open (which would have been the closest to me at 88 miles) decided to back out. sales have been tanking the last 2 months as well, which makes me wonder if they will be able to expand their already thin dealer network at all.

i feel like what keeps the iq from great numbers is the transmisiion, engine, and gearing choice more than its body shape.

[roxy1]

Originally Posted by CanIHazYarisHatch?

For the better part of 20 years here, many small cars were usually just the breadcrumbs of the manufacture's efforts, and it showed. It showed in sub-par handling, rubbery gear changes, shoddy interior fit-and-finish, inhuman ergonomics, and general poor refinement. These were the times of the Cavalier and Tempo, dark times indeed.

Now these companies have to fight to the death, designing great small cars for us in the U.S. Europeans take it for granted, they have dozens of choices in just the B-segment, as one example. Now, we are getting a taste of quality small cars and we are loving it. One time the consumer wins, so savor it while it lasts.

totally agree here. as a small hatchback lover, there have never been this many quality small cars in the market. all i ever considered worth anything were the old civc ahd corolla hatches.

now: (in no particular order)
ford fiesta
fit
accent
chevy sonic (yes, i think it will prove to be a decent car)
yaris
mazda 2
versa (not my thing but still a good car)
fiat 500
mini

i ended up with the veloster as my main car, and as much as i love it i dont want to spend $18-$19k on a second car.

[sushiic]

Originally Posted by roxy1

as a small hatchback lover, there have never been this many quality small cars in the market. all i ever considered worth anything were the old civc ahd corolla hatches.

Me too. The only cars I think are worth the expense are compact-yet-roomy hatchbacks & wagons (and smaller minivans)! My mom passed down an anti-sedan bias to me early on - and I still don't care for them.

3 Doors look the sharpest, and I think it's too bad that we don't have more 3 door choices here - like the Mazda2 or the Sonic (3D sold in other markets).

After the HB choices of the early 90's, they faded away, and it was danged hard to find a good HB in N. America. So glad now that we are given these new choices. I hope to see even more models, like the Renault Modus'es/Nissan Note, Mazda Verisa, Nissan Micra, VW Up, and all the small Japanese minivans like the Honda Freeds, Toy. Sienta, and Nissan NV200.

[Hershey]

The 2012 MAZDA 2 has been trimmed 220 lbs.. That should get better gas mileage as well . Test drove the 5 speed manual and the clutch is the easiest I've encountered so far . The shifting was smooth as silk .

[CanIHazYarisHatch?]

Originally Posted by roxy1

generally true vs a sedan counterpart, but small hatches can still be very fuel efficient.

i had a 2012 fiat 500 for 5 months. unbelievably vault like and very refined on the highway. i had the manual which is rated the same as the yaris at 30/38. for the whole 4200 miles i had it my real mpg was 44.2. even the drivers on the fiat forum who dont try much are getting 40+ with the mt.

the auto on that car is another story..not efficient at all.

what killed it for me was the center shift pod, which keeps the drivers right knee from being able to splay out to the right at all. basically your knee is smashed against it all the time. i convinced myself id get used to it but i never did. (i got a ridiculous purchase price from carmax and they proceeded to try to sell it above msrp, dropping the price every few weeks until they finally sold it).

a secondary concern was that the studio that was supposed to open (which would have been the closest to me at 88 miles) decided to back out. sales have been tanking the last 2 months as well, which makes me wonder if they will be able to expand their already thin dealer network at all.

i feel like what keeps the iq from great numbers is the transmission, engine, and gearing choice more than its body shape.

Only 5 months, eh? Man. Glad you could sell high, I doubt many 500 owners will have such good fortune.

I like what the 500 represents, and I test-drove a Sport w/5-speed like 6 months ago. It was brilliant fun, if a bit too cute for me. That and they were demanding $18k for a stripper Pop model. Um, no thanks.

I know the dealers had to spend $1-3 million to design their snobby "studios", but I should not have to pay $3k over sticker for a stripper model. there are too many other cars, even 5-doors, reluctantly, that I would sooner chose than an $18k A-class car.

If Fiat really wanted success with the 500, they would sell a stripper w/5-speed for $15k. The Sport would be $16k, and the Lounge would be $17k. The real margin would be in accessories. Alloy wheels, Abarth parts, etc. But now they have half a year's supply collecting dust on lots, and they wonder why, with an unknown brand in the U.S.

Also, we need some TwinAir for the next fuel price spike.

I know this sounds contradictory to my earlier statements, but I would get in line if Ford brought their Ka over. I know it is basically a re-skinned 500, and built by Fiat, but if they gutted the Fiat engine and tranny and put in, say, the new 1.0 3-cylinder turbo EcoBoost and a manual, I would be in heaven.

I would have it all: fuel economy, quirkiness, the fun-to-drive factor that the 500 had (and it was great fun to drive!), but with Ford reliability and a huge dealer network. Plus the sweet jellybean styling without looking too cute.

Ah, if only...

Originally Posted by sushiic

Me too. The only cars I think are worth the expense are compact-yet-roomy hatchbacks & wagons (and smaller minivans)! My mom passed down an anti-sedan bias to me early on - and I still don't care for them.

3 Doors look the sharpest, and I think it's too bad that we don't have more 3 door choices here - like the Mazda2 or the Sonic (3D sold in other markets).

After the HB choices of the early 90's, they faded away, and it was danged hard to find a good HB in N. America. So glad now that we are given these new choices. I hope to see even more models, like the Renault Modus'es/Nissan Note, Mazda Verisa, Nissan Micra, VW Up, and all the small Japanese minivans like the Honda Freeds, Toy. Sienta, and Nissan NV200.

I agree. I love me some 3-door hatches. Even the old ones, like the Mazda 323, any number of Honda Civics/CRXs, Toyota Corollas, Pug 205, etc. 3-doors offer nearly as much utility as a 5-door, but without the whole humdrum, overly-utilitarian design that turns me off. Kind of like the Renault Espace, lots of utility, but I would be embarrassed driving one.

At least there is the superficial impression that 3-doors have sporting pretensions, versus 5-doors that don't often share the same sleek lines.

Also, the Mazda 2 is the best-driving, best-shifting car in the B-segment right now, and I've driven them all except the new Sonic.

Originally Posted by Hershey

The 2012 MAZDA 2 has been trimmed 220 lbs.. That should get better gas mileage as well . Test drove the 5 speed manual and the clutch is the easiest I've encountered so far . The shifting was smooth as silk .

Another reason I love Mazda. Don't forget the new SkyActiv engine for 2012, should boost their MPGs as well.

But if it's not offered as a 3-door (which it won't be, because Mazda NA hates us, apparently), it's off the table for me. Want to feel pain? Google "Mazda 2 3-door hatchback", and bask in the sadness that we are deprived of such a cleanly-styled little car.

I even loved the interior, and would gladly have bought the Touring in the bright metallic green (w/5-speed) for the $17k sticker with no haggling. But no 3-door for the U.S. market...

Mazda and Ford both broke my heart with their omission of 3-doors in this market. At least Toyota is staying faithful to those of us that desire more choice in body style.

[roxy1]

Originally Posted by CanIHazYarisHatch?

If Fiat really wanted success with the 500, they would sell a stripper w/5-speed for $15k.



Another reason I love Mazda. Don't forget the new SkyActiv engine for 2012, should boost their MPGs as well.
.

the pop model starts at $15k with destination and they are already starting to be discounted.

i think its a really fun car and a good value IF the dealer network holds up and the reliability is at least average....and you can be comfortable in it.

it is not a good value, however, if one needs some utility.

i dont think the mazda 2 will have the skyactiv engine for 2012 though the mazda 2 gets it.

otherwise id be looking at the mazda 2. i would think if they shaved that much weight off the mazda 2 they could increase the epa estimates from 29/36....but i dont see any changes there.

[sushiic]

Originally Posted by CanIHazYarisHatch?

If Fiat really wanted success with the 500, they would sell a stripper w/5-speed for $15k... But now they have half a year's supply collecting dust on lots, and they wonder why...

I was hoping to see them being driven around here, as there's a Fiat dealer near me. But I haven't seen any, outside of their lot. Too bad - they're darn cute, but I wouldn't buy one (unless they were a lot cheaper).

Originally Posted by CanIHazYarisHatch?

I love me some 3-door hatches. Even the old ones, like the Mazda 323...

the Mazda 2 is the best-driving, best-shifting car in the B-segment right now, and I've driven them all except the new Sonic.

I remember the 323 3D hatchbacks. and the Corolla HB's from the same time. Liked them both.

I drive AT - too bad these little hatches (including Yaris) all seem to have unimpressive AT's.

[CanIHazYarisHatch?]

Originally Posted by roxy1

the pop model starts at $15k with destination and they are already starting to be discounted.

i think its a really fun car and a good value IF the dealer network holds up and the reliability is at least average....and you can be comfortable in it.

it is not a good value, however, if one needs some utility.

i dont think the mazda 2 will have the skyactiv engine for 2012 though the mazda 2 gets it.

otherwise id be looking at the mazda 2. i would think if they shaved that much weight off the mazda 2 they could increase the epa estimates from 29/36....but i dont see any changes there.

I just don't want to gamble $15k+ on a car that may end up being an orphan. Or, at the best, much maligned and with minimal residual when I eventually go to sell it on.

Call me a coward, but with that much cash on the line, I'll bet on the "safe" bet: Toyota/Mazda/Honda et. al. I seem to remember Fiat being chased out of the U.S. market with torches and pitchforks back in the 1980's, fun-to-drive and beautiful cars like the Spider and X 1/9 notwithstanding.

I should know, my first car was a '79 2000 Spider. The less said about that jalopy, the better!

[CanIHazYarisHatch?]

Originally Posted by sushiic

I was hoping to see them being driven around here, as there's a Fiat dealer near me. But I haven't seen any, outside of their lot. Too bad - they're darn cute, but I wouldn't buy one (unless they were a lot cheaper).


I remember the 323 3D hatchbacks. and the Corolla HB's from the same time. Liked them both.

I drive AT - too bad these little hatches (including Yaris) all seem to have unimpressive AT's.

There are a few rolling around my parts...I've seen four total on the street. The dealer is asking stupid money for them, and they wonder why their salesmen are so lonely. Even with a mere $500 rebate they are pushing now, the 500 offers little value, and dubious utility.

For the same money, I could have a pretty nicely appointed Focus (If I wanted one, that is...). It doesn't look good for Fiat. It looks really ugly out there, but it's entertaining to watch.

[Hershey]

" Don't forget the new SkyActiv engine for 2012, should boost their MPGs as well . "

Was looking at a MAZDA 3 sedan with the SkyActiv in the showroom . Very impressive . $20,000 kills it . Have seen the MAZDA 2 Sport with the 5 speed manual for $13,900 . That I like .

[roxy1]

Originally Posted by Hershey

" Don't forget the new SkyActiv engine for 2012, should boost their MPGs as well . "

Was looking at a MAZDA 3 sedan with the SkyActiv in the showroom . Very impressive . $20,000 kills it . Have seen the MAZDA 2 Sport with the 5 speed manual for $13,900 . That I like .

mpg for the mazda 2 should be higher considering how light it is. i suppose the mazda 2 will evenrually get the skyactiv but the 2012 doesnt have it.

[CanIHazYarisHatch?]

Originally Posted by roxy1

mpg for the mazda 2 should be higher considering how light it is. i suppose the mazda 2 will evenrually get the skyactiv but the 2012 doesnt have it.

You are right, I did some digging on the 2012 2...a shame.

I didn't read that advertisement for the new 2 losing over 200lbs. until just now. I love Mazda, a mass-market enthusiast brand, that just happened to win LeMans in '91 against such giants as Mercedes. I love their obsession with shaving weight, even on their cheapest car, the 2.

I'll be in my bunk.

Just start building the 3-door in Mexico, Mazda! Just build the freaking car...nevermind. I'm sold on the Yaris, anyway. But the 2 has the best steering I have ever sampled in an economy car. You can steer with one finger above 5mph, and the gearbox is indeed as someone else above commented: "like silk".

Sorry. I get angry sometimes. I'm better now.

[sushiic]

Originally Posted by CanIHazYarisHatch?

I'll be in my bunk.

Just start building the 3-door in Mexico, Mazda! Just build the freaking car...nevermind. I'm sold on the Yaris, anyway.

I'd seriously consider the Mazda2, too - the main dealbreaker is the NO 3D!!

It's cheaper than Yaris, probably more fun (I didn't actually test drive)... But ya, why is it only 34 mpg (AT) highway, when the new Kia/Ford/etc. subcompacts are getting 40 mpg?? That is another big thing against the Mazda2.

Being a former Protege driver, I have a special interest in the Mazda2. And Mazda seems to be the one big Jap. company that isn't resting on their laurels and pumping out sub-standard, overpriced "bestsellers" subject to massive recalls!

Besides offering 3D, the Yaris's new backside, flatter-than-Mazda2 cargo load floor, lighter interior fabric, and gorgeous Lagoon Blue make it my top choice.

I'd like to see Hyundai bring over their I20 too - looks similar to Mazda2, but not quite as sharp.

[CanIHazYarisHatch?]

Originally Posted by sushiic

I'd seriously consider the Mazda2, too - the main dealbreaker is the NO 3D!!

It's cheaper than Yaris, probably more fun (I didn't actually test drive)... But ya, why is it only 34 mpg (AT) highway, when the new Kia/Ford/etc. subcompacts are getting 40 mpg?? That is another big thing against the Mazda2.

Being a former Protege driver, I have a special interest in the Mazda2. And Mazda seems to be the one big Jap. company that isn't resting on their laurels and pumping out sub-standard, overpriced "bestsellers" subject to massive recalls!

Besides offering 3D, the Yaris's new backside, flatter-than-Mazda2 cargo load floor, lighter interior fabric, and gorgeous Lagoon Blue make it my top choice.

I'd like to see Hyundai bring over their I20 too - looks similar to Mazda2, but not quite as sharp.

Trust me, the 2 drives much better than the Yaris. You can feel everything in the perfectly-weighted steering. If it were offered here as a 3-door, I would be over on some Mazda 2 forum instead of here...but alas, Mazda have lost their mind and deprived us of the 3-door.

[daf62757]

Back in 91 I bought a Mazda 929S. Cost a fortune and was junk. I realize things have changed, but I would never gamble again on a Mazda. Too many connections and parts that they share with Ford. Until I buy a Toyota that gives me headaches, I will stick with what works!

You can rave about Mazda all you want, but I would never buy one!

[Hershey]

I've been seeing some 2 owners claiming to be getting 40+ with 5 speed manual . Others have been averaging around 35 . About the same as most YARIS owners .