Yaris sales hit new low...

[Ryze268]

Toyota should have made RS spec Vitz/Yaris come with a 2ZZ from factory, I think would definitely have a good amount of supporters.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by marcar72

Hey congradulations! Good for you! I got my 2014 L manual out the door from Libertyville, IL for $15,872 so you did real good!

Thanks!

[Superfly]

Originally Posted by juicyjosh

Guys and gals, we all realize the 2014 Yaris is a 2005 Yaris, which is a 2007 Daihatsu Charade..., right?

Would YOU buy a 2005 100-hp FWD car... TODAY IN 2014?

I know I wouldn't.

There's also a minimal commission payout to Toyota sales reps for selling the Yaris, so the sales reps aren't going to be pushing these cars to begin with. The point is significant: Salespeople aren't going to spend 4 hours to trying to convince someone to buy a cheaply-made car hoping to make $1xx.00 commission when they can much more easily sell a "nicer" Camry or Corolla and make $3xx.00.

But Toyota's milking the 2005 Yaris (a.k.a. 2007 Daihatsu Charade) for all it's worth. The 2012-on Yaris has an exterior and interior refresh, but it's only a facelift. Like everything else in life, what's inside is more important. In the case of the Yaris, the engine, drivetrain, suspension are all circa 2005. (So the 2012 SE has disks in the rear; There's so little weight back there that there's no significant performance benefit.) However for 2012, Toyota remapped the ecu for "softer" throttle response to get an extra 1 mpg City and Highway for the MT. Thanks Toyota for completing the initially only partially botched castration of what little cojones this car ever had to begin with.

I leased the car because of a unique situation I was in at the time where I needed something cheap with Toyota reliability, and I had no time to be working on cars. And I got a 5-speed fwiw. At least it was cheaper than the auto, and I'm averaging 29 mpg on 87 octane, which isn't bad, though could be better for a 2300-lb. car with a very optimistic 106-hp rating.

It has nothing to do with the Yaris having low-end hp numbers. People are buying Fiat 500s, Smart ForTwos and Prius C's and all have low hp.

But I agree with most of the rest of your post. Toyota has no idea what to do with the Yaris because they have the Corolla and the Prius C. The former offers more room, a more powerful engine, a solid reputation for reliability and updated options. The latter offers high fuel economy and similar size. Both have minimally higher MSRPs which can (and are at this moment) offset with enticing/generous incentives such as 0% financing and cash back. The Yaris competitors offer similar things. How can the Yaris sell if it is being killed by it's own family line-up not to mention updated competitors?

I love this damned car but Toyota is failing it miserably. As I stated in several other threads, something has to change. Cut the entire production line to one model (the cheapest configuration) and turn it into your lowest priced, stripper model; tune or change the engine and tranny and redesign the sheet metal and turn it into a hot hatch; shrink the dimensions and make it a Fiat, Spark and Mini competitor; drop the Yaris from Toyota and place it under the Scion badge; offer more colors or interior options. Something has to give. I am waiting to see the 2016 model. It should give us all a good indication of what direction Toyota is headed (although I would argue pawning off production to Mazda is probably a good sign TMC is letting the Yaris drift to it's own demise).

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Superfly

The former offers more room

Which some people don't care about....they'd rather have more parking options.

a more powerful engine

It's an economy car. If power is such an important concern, why buy an economy car?

a solid reputation for reliability

As does the Yaris.

The latter offers high fuel economy and similar size

.

But increased complexity that can drive up costs in the long run.....and it doesn't offer a manual transmission

How can the Yaris sell if it is being killed by it's own family line-up not to mention updated competitors?

The Prius c should have been called the Yaris Hybrid in the U.S., IMO. That it wasn't...and that that was the correct decision from a marketing standpoint...IMO, shows an insecure bandwagon mentality on the part of U.S. consumers.

Cut the entire production line to one model (the cheapest configuration) and turn it into your lowest priced, stripper model; tune or change the engine and tranny and redesign the sheet metal and turn it into a hot hatch; shrink the dimensions and make it a Fiat, Spark and Mini competitor; drop the Yaris from Toyota and place it under the Scion badge; offer more colors or interior options.

All good ideas.

[JudgeM]

What I find odd for many of the markets especially US is the spec of the Yaris. You get the same 1nzfe engine, 4 speed auto or 5 speed manual. This is already 10 years old technology. While in europe they get 6 speed manuals, dual vvti engine, multi mode transmission, traction control etc.

Even that may not be enough, you pit it against things like the fiesta that has 5 speed auto(i think) 1 liter turbo engine that will own our yaris 1.5.

What I love about Toyota was all the new tech they brought to the car (esp late 80's) but now they seem to be saturating especially on the low end cars. I am disappointed to see the new VIOS which looks beautiful still have the same 1NZ-FE and 4 speed auto.

Its easy to see why now for new buyers they will not go down the yaris/vios route when the competitor offer much better spec'd car for similar price.

[matti]

One of the things that appealed to me was the "low-tech" 1nzfe engine. It has been proven bombproof (you know what I mean!) and that's what I care about. If it was 100 years old, it wouldn't matter to me. If it works well and is durable, that's all that matters to me.

I may be in the minority, though. I don't buy vehicles for their technology or driving "experience." I buy a car to cheaply get from point A to point B, while hoping to get some serious reliability and longevity out of the vehicle.

[kimona]

Originally Posted by matti

One of the things that appealed to me was the "low-tech" 1nzfe engine. It has been proven bombproof (you know what I mean!) and that's what I care about. If it was 100 years old, it wouldn't matter to me. If it works well and is durable, that's all that matters to me.

I may be in the minority, though. I don't buy vehicles for their technology or driving "experience." I buy a car to cheaply get from point A to point B, while hoping to get some serious reliability and longevity out of the vehicle.

I'm with you.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by matti

One of the things that appealed to me was the "low-tech" 1nzfe engine. It has been proven bombproof (you know what I mean!) and that's what I care about. If it was 100 years old, it wouldn't matter to me. If it works well and is durable, that's all that matters to me.

I may be in the minority, though. I don't buy vehicles for their technology or driving "experience." I buy a car to cheaply get from point A to point B, while hoping to get some serious reliability and longevity out of the vehicle.

+100. While I might buy a car in a different segment for the technology or the driving experience, what matters to me when buying a car in this segment is what matti wrote above. People make decisions within other segments for 'emotional' and 'trendy' (among other) reasons. IMO, putting a lot of weight into such factors in this segment is nonsensical.

[bentjazz]

With matti on this one, for sure.....

[yougojay]

Originally Posted by matti

One of the things that appealed to me was the "low-tech" 1nzfe engine. It has been proven bombproof (you know what I mean!) and that's what I care about. If it was 100 years old, it wouldn't matter to me. If it works well and is durable, that's all that matters to me.

I may be in the minority, though. I don't buy vehicles for their technology or driving "experience." I buy a car to cheaply get from point A to point B, while hoping to get some serious reliability and longevity out of the vehicle.

This pretty much sums it up. It still amazes me reading a lot of the experiences here. ZERO regrets with this car.

[Flipper_1938]

Yep. The whole reason I bought a Yaris is that I had an ECHO. That car was the most functional CAR that I have ever been around. Great mileage, great reliability, incredibly durable interior (still cleaned up and looked new after 318,000 miles), great value...overall an amazing car for $12,000 roll up windows and all.

I'm hoping the Yaris will treat me the same although my carpet at 100,000 miles shows more wear than the ECHO did at 318,000

[yougojay]

I read things now and then at the Mini, Fiat 500, Fiesta, Spark, etc. forums out there. Some real horror stories. No thanks.
I would imaging you can get new carpet, pieces or a 'Kit' to replace. I did it once, in my '72 Chevelle Convt. - it was totally easy, and completely transformed the way the interior looked (really made a difference)

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by JudgeM

when the competitor offer much better spec'd car for similar price.

My friend gave me a ride to the airport on Tuesday morning (starting before 5 am) for a 7 am flight...Houston to Charlotte to Tampa to pick up my new Yaris. My friend has a PT Cruiser with just over 155,000 miles on it. She drives that car harder than I have ever seen any woman drive any car. When I arrived in Tampa, Enterprise gave me a Fiesta as my one way rental to get to the dealership (they have a location about 4 miles from the dealership). The Fiesta had about 35,000 miles on it. OMG, what a POS. That thing sounded as if it would fall apart any minute. Comparing it to my friend's PT Cruiser, one would think the PT Cruiser had the 35,000 miles, and the Fiesta had not just 155,000 + miles, but 500,000 + miles.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by yougojay

I read things now and then at the Mini, Fiat 500, Fiesta, Spark, etc. forums out there. Some real horror stories. No thanks

See post #85 .

[roxy1]

Originally Posted by yougojay

I read things now and then at the Mini, Fiat 500, Fiesta, Spark, etc. forums out there. Some real horror stories.:

yeah, I lived some of that. when the JD Powers Initial Quality study came out and Fiat was dead last, as one would expect the fangs came out, with the general jist being that those surveys aren't using sound research methods, blah, blah, blah....does anyone think if Fiat had been near the top that owners would have found a problem with the survey methods.

those of us not drinking the kool aid saw it for what it was......the not too surprising result of the marriage between Fiat and Chrysler.

[yougojay]

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

My friend gave me a ride to the airport on Tuesday morning (starting before 5 am) for a 7 am flight...Houston to Charlotte to Tampa to pick up my new Yaris. My friend has a PT Cruiser with just over 155,000 miles on it. She drives that car harder than I have ever seen any woman drive any car. When I arrived in Tampa, Enterprise gave me a Fiesta as my one way rental to get to the dealership (they have a location about 4 miles from the dealership). The Fiesta had about 35,000 miles on it. OMG, what a POS. That thing sounded as if it would fall apart any minute. Comparing it to my friend's PT Cruiser, one would think the PT Cruiser had the 35,000 miles, and the Fiesta had not just 155,000 + miles, but 500,000 + miles.

Anyone jump in the wheel well of your plane while you were in Charlotte?
Granted, the Fiesta was a rental car. People do not take care of their own cars, let alone a rental car. Many people make it a POINT to beat on rental cars! Looked at a Fiesta briefly at a local dealer. Sure, it was OK, brand new, but never seriously considered one. After all these years, I have become so disappointed in the old "Big 3"
Decades of Toyota, Toyota, Toyota reliability, runs, no problems, etc. OK, I give UP, I WANNA TRY ONE! That's how I got here.
I am really easy on cars. Sure, there's a good chance I could have purchased a Fiesta or Fiat 500 or Spark & had good luck with it, but told myself, nope, not doing it. Had Fords, many GM products, gotta try a Toyota.
I know I made the right decision - I guarantee I will have this car until I croak, or some idiot totals it, or some idiot totals it with me in it and I croak Any of the above!

Forums are a good place to read what people are saying about cars.
I did some pretty extensive reading at some of these forums. Reading about Yaris (& Echo) lots of praise & LACK of issues. I understand, more volume sold, more people crabbing about problems.

I absolutely LOVE the looks of the Fiat 500 - there is an owner of one who works at the CVS by my house. It is a light-ish green opaque, Just wonderful looking. Have never been all over, hands on with one, maybe I should check one out sometime. It is so cute & good looking to me, the color choices are awesome.
Dang, I want to hug it and take it home and sleep in the garage with it on the concrete floor and offer it a Cookout 1/2 pound cheeseburger & fries, and kiss it all over. It's all that a small, fun to drive car should look like...It looks GREAT!
But you know what? It's a F I A T - Not getting sucked into that.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by yougojay

Anyone jump in the wheel well of your plane while you were in Charlotte?
Granted, the Fiesta was a rental car. People do not take care of their own cars, let alone a rental car. Many people make it a POINT to beat on rental cars! Looked at a Fiesta briefly at a local dealer. Sure, it was OK, brand new, but never seriously considered one. After all these years, I have become so disappointed in the old "Big 3"
Decades of Toyota, Toyota, Toyota reliability, runs, no problems, etc. OK, I give UP, I WANNA TRY ONE! That's how I got here.
I am really easy on cars. Sure, there's a good chance I could have purchased a Fiesta or Fiat 500 or Spark & had good luck with it, but told myself, nope, not doing it. Had Fords, many GM products, gotta try a Toyota.
I know I made the right decision - I guarantee I will have this car until I croak, or some idiot totals it, or some idiot totals it with me in it and I croak Any of the above!

Forums are a good place to read what people are saying about cars.
I did some pretty extensive reading at some of these forums. Reading about Yaris (& Echo) lots of praise & LACK of issues. I understand, more volume sold, more people crabbing about problems.

I absolutely LOVE the looks of the Fiat 500 - there is an owner of one who works at the CVS by my house. It is a light-ish green opaque, Just wonderful looking. Have never been all over, hands on with one, maybe I should check one out sometime. It is so cute & good looking to me, the color choices are awesome.
Dang, I want to hug it and take it home and sleep in the garage with it on the concrete floor and offer it a Cookout 1/2 pound cheeseburger & fries, and kiss it all over. It's all that a small, fun to drive car should look like...It looks GREAT!
But you know what? It's a F I A T - Not getting sucked into that.

I'm keenly aware of how people treat rental cars and attitudes toward the vehicles used in that type of arrangement. One of my points was that my friend's driving = the same effect as a constant beat of renters on a rental car. Given that, the mileage is the significant difference, and the feeling of the condition of each car is so different that looking at it from a 'switching mileage perspective' (35,000 and 155,000 on the other car, not the car that mileage is on) isn't enough of a difference...that's why I made the point of 500,000 + miles, rather than 155,000. If a racecar driver beat that Fiesta for the 35,000 miles, it still shouldn't feel as bad as it did.....and I want to like the Fiesta (Ford is the only Big 3 manufacturer and or brand I would consider re how they approached their business during the financial crisis vs. the others). On principle, I'd never again buy a UAW made vehicle, so that limits the Fords as well (but not the Fiesta ). I can see planning to buy a car that doesn't have bulletproof reliability if you have at least one more vehicle than number of drivers in the house, and if at least one of those vehicles has bulletproof reliability. Considering my location and use, buying a Mini Countryman ALL4 would be a complete waste. However, I think it is a vehicle that inspires tremendous passion and, other than reliability, hits all the marks. If I was in CTScott's shoes (enough room in the garage, living in an area where the winter weather makes the thought of buying an AWD vehicle a very logical proposition, and the mechanical knowledge to prevent being taken to the cleaners on repairs/or to do them yourself, and a surplus vehicle (well, I am in those shoes)), I'd probably be motivated to buy one (as he has). IIRC from one of his posts in the tires/wheels/etc section, tomorrow is supposed to be the big day...the dealer told him his Mini should be ready for delivery on Moinday.

[yougojay]

I completely get what you were trying to say regarding the miles and the rental treatment & the way your friend drove those hard 155,000 miles. Yes, why does the Fiesta feel like that after 35,000 miles & the PT feels BETTER after 150,000+ miles? Gotta wonder.
Mini's are absolutely awesomely cool looking! I'll bet they are a blast to drive. I'll bet you I could go out tomorrow and find one, take it home from the dealer & in a few hours and be completely freakin' in LOVE WITH IT.
But, my gut feeling is that if I kept it for years it would become a money pit. I'll go with my gut
We can ALL justify a car purchase of any make or model! Believe me, I've done it myself & have been fortunate enough to have reliable service in those cars, whew!
I think certain people have a passion for cars & driving, it's a good thing.
Yes, Scott is getting a Mini, I read a post a few days ago him trying to sell the wheels & tires from the one he is trading in (I believe) Sell them to a willing buyer & get the buyers stock wheels and tires. Good idea. I'll have to go look for that post again. I hope he was successful - I think he was getting some AWD extended version, they make 5 or 6 models now.
He'll have a ball with it I'm sure - I gotta go check out the Mini website now, it's been awhile!