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Old 01-10-2009, 11:38 AM   #1
ejaf
 
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12V tap when Car off and doors locked?

Hi...anyone know where I can tap this? Preferably in the front doors on a power package if possible?

It's an '09 Sedan...tried to look through the 07 PDF, but couldn't determine if any near the power package door lock switches fit the bill.

Thanks in advance...Eric
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Old 01-10-2009, 04:03 PM   #2
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I'm afraid I don't know what you mean. Could you be a little bit more explicit? What are you trying to tap? Are you trying to use energy from the battery?
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Old 01-10-2009, 07:43 PM   #3
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Apologies if I didn't make sense...let me try again. This is not my forte.

What I need is 12 volts of power when the car is locked and the engine off. My idea is to put in a couple of LEDs that flash, similar to a car alarm. I want them to automatically start flashing when I get out of the car, and lock the doors.

I was hoping that one of the wires going into the lock mechanism is hot, only under the situation I mention above, in order to make the wiring easier, but although that would be the best place to put them IMO, any other wire that fits the bill I could use, and place the LED elsewhere.

Thanks...Eric
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Old 01-10-2009, 07:58 PM   #4
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You are looking for something that goes hot when the doors lock and the car isn't running. I don't think you will find anything like that because the power locks don't need power to stay locked.

Since you want it to automatically turn on the LEDS based on the engine off/locked doors state - you might be able to work something out with the weight sensors in the seats (assuming the drivers side has one - I know the passengers side does). Otherwise you'll really need some sort of circuitry to do it automatically like you want to do.
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Old 01-10-2009, 08:08 PM   #5
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I have done a mod that does just that. Its is called a "led scanner". It turns on whenever the car is off. It resembles a car alarm led. Works great! Easy installation too. Just google or eBay "led scanner" and you will find what you are looking for.

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Old 01-11-2009, 02:58 AM   #6
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Hmmm get your power from the 12V and Ground lines, and add a relay that is normally closed, controlled by the Accessory line. That way, the circuit is only complete when the accessory power is off. You can find these cables in the ignition switch wiring, take a look at one of the stickies here with the wiring information:

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12220
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Old 01-11-2009, 12:39 PM   #7
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you can connect to any +12v, it's always constant (unswitched). And ground it where ever you want.
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Old 01-11-2009, 03:52 PM   #8
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Got the relay idea...thanks.

I don't need constant 12V, only when the car is off, but thank for that point.

The LED Scanner, where is it wired to? In other words, how does it know to turn on whenever the car is off?
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Old 01-11-2009, 04:12 PM   #9
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So. Just googled the LED scanner...it goes on as soon as the engine is off, but not when the car is locked?

That's pretty close to what I'm thinking, almost, but not quite. Just need something that gives power when BOTH the ignition is off and doors locked.

Will research the relay idea a little more. Thanks.
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Old 01-11-2009, 04:23 PM   #10
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Arrow And here is your answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ejaf View Post
Got the relay idea...thanks.

I don't need constant 12V, only when the car is off, but thank for that point.

The LED Scanner, where is it wired to? In other words, how does it know to turn on whenever the car is off?
Okay, so, you have your LED Scanner (if not then let's just pretend you do for now).

Stick in an NC relay (normally closed; it can be bought at your local radio shack. just ask, they should know what you are talking about) that is energized by any accessory voltage source (the wires where voltage is present when the car is on). Have the contacts of the relay (the ones that open and close) connected to the 12V source and the LED Scanner then ground. What this does is this:

1) You turn on your car
2) The accV energizes the relay, causing the contacts to open
3) The power is disconnected from the LED Scanner because of the open
4) The loss of power turns the LED Scanner off when your car is on.
5) You turn your car off
6) The lack of voltage de-energizes the relay, causing the contacts to short (connect)
7) The connection causes voltage to be present at the LED Scanner
8) Your LED Scanner turns on until you turn your car back on.

For your connection purposes, and everything I just said, I want to point back to eTiMaGo's post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by eTiMaGo View Post
Hmmm get your power from the 12V and Ground lines, and add a relay that is normally closed, controlled by the Accessory line. That way, the circuit is only complete when the accessory power is off. You can find these cables in the ignition switch wiring, take a look at one of the stickies here with the wiring information:

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12220
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Old 01-11-2009, 05:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejaf View Post
So. Just googled the LED scanner...it goes on as soon as the engine is off, but not when the car is locked?

That's pretty close to what I'm thinking, almost, but not quite. Just need something that gives power when BOTH the ignition is off and doors locked.

Will research the relay idea a little more. Thanks.
The led scanner has 3 wires. 12v for power, a ground, and a remote wire. The remote wire sends the power signal to led scanner whenever the key is in the "off" position. No matter if the doors are locked, it turns on everytime the key is switched to "off" Its has about ten different sweeping motion styles you can change with the press of a button. This will give you a idea what it looks like
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Old 01-11-2009, 05:24 PM   #12
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Great...thanks for the answer on the scanner, and the NC relay.

Eric
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:49 AM   #13
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as to your original idea of having it turn on only when the doors are locked, this is gonna be the really tricky part... Only easy way I can think of doing it is an actual switch that is pressed by the lock mechanism when it is in the locked position. So you'd have the relay and the lock switch in-line, and the system will only activate when both are closed.
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Old 01-12-2009, 09:21 AM   #14
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Yeah...thinking a little more about this now.

What I think I can do is duplicate the LED scanner idea (1 constant 12V, 1 ground, and 1 to accessory switch), and then between constant and ground, place some kind of circuit(perhaps a relay) that only closes when power is applied to the door lock switch.

Of course, I wouldn't want it to turn off if I hit the door lock switch twice, so that means I will have to scour Digikey online for a relay that fits the bill.

Going to play with one of these LED scanners on a breadboard, and see just what it would take to set up. Worst comes to worse, I just set it up in it's orginal form.

Thanks guys! This forum is great!

Eric
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Old 01-12-2009, 12:47 PM   #15
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Why are you trying to make this harder than it has to be? If you want a led module that turns on when the car is not on, a scanner is made to do just that with minimal installation. Unless you dont want that big of a module or less leds, ect...
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:02 PM   #16
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The trick is the 'doors locked' requirement. You really need something called a flip-flop circuit you could tie into the wires leading to the door lock actuator. This is essentially an electronic 'push on - push off' circuit that emulates a mechanical push button. You can google for some circuit diagrams (try "flip-flop circuit".) Of course you'd have to be handy with a soldering iron and buy a few small parts.

The problem with wiring a relay to the door switches is that it would only be momentary - you need other electronics to provide the constant state you want (as noted above.)

It would be simpler to wire in a switch to the lock mechanism as eTiMago suggested
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:10 PM   #17
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As far as the "why" question, the answer is "because" ;)

The flip flop idea is a good one...just surfing to find the right combination of transistors used in a latching type state, where the transistor will be turned on if 12v is applied via the door lock wire. However, I would have to fancy something a little more complicated, if I want it to turn off when the doors are unlocked.

Will search the IC section on digikey...bet you I find some sort of IC that does this all for me, but I'm hoping it can handle 12v, since I don't want to get even more complicated, and have to step down the voltage into it.

Will let you guys know if I find anything that fits the bill, thanks much for the input.

Eric
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:10 PM   #18
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Check the bistable circuit on this page: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...wden/page9.htm

Oh - and there are flip-flop chips but then you'd need a voltage regulator to drop 12v down to 5v logic levels. I would still recommend a small relay or SCR device to control the 12v LED scanner.

Best of luck.

Last edited by Altitude; 01-12-2009 at 03:31 PM.
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