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Old 01-07-2016, 02:59 PM   #19
Bluevitz-rs
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Originally Posted by Zachccccc View Post
Where is the primary located ?
What I linked is the post cat correct?


*Edit
Nevermind those two questions


I also threw a 420 code, but that's just an emissions thing. That wouldn't cause the mis-fires would it ?
I'm full of questions

Actually the misfire is probably what caused the 420 code.

It's actually crazy how far out the readings on the sensors can be screwing with other components and not set a code.
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Old 01-07-2016, 03:00 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Bluevitz-rs View Post
The primary is NOT an AFR on an Echo. It is an O2 sensor.



And yes the post Cat O2 Sensor will influence the long term fuel trim.

The primary is before that Cat. It is connected in the engine bay. The connector is mounted to the rear engine mount and is a PITA to disconnect. The secondary O2 is the one connected under the shifter.
So to test the Primary do the voltmeter pin check and it should oscillate from .4-.9v ?
I'm still not certain which pin to test the white one on the OBD ?

How would one go about replacing that sensor if it is bad, any tips/tricks ?

Also, are there tests that can be done to diagnose a bad MAF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluevitz-rs View Post
Actually the misfire is probably what caused the 420 code.
It's actually crazy how far out the readings on the sensors can be screwing with other components and not set a code.
Oh, ok gotcha !
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Old 01-07-2016, 03:08 PM   #21
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The P0420 code is a cta efficiency error, either your cta is clogged from the misfires or something else. I'm not sure if this could cause multiple misfires you're experiencing maybe Bluevitz can chime in on that

*EDIT, looks like he beat me to it :D
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Old 01-07-2016, 03:14 PM   #22
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Ok, just checked and there's no O2 wire on your OBD port, it's only available on Conector C Pin 16 on the ECU. It is a white wire. Pin 13 is also white, but is the knock sensor.

The reading should oscillate from .050V - .900V

So in other words, within 1V. It should swing back and forth if you hold the revs at about 2000. If it's not going all the way up and all the way down, the sensor is shot.

Mine was reading 0.100-0.550V and no code we set but my millage was getting bad and I had a rougher idle. My fuel trims where shooting up to +23% at idle. Changed the sensor and started getting 100km more per tank and the idle smoothed out a bit.

edit: for reference, low voltage is a lean reading and high voltage is a rich reading on an O2 sensor. If the sensor is only showing the ECU half way up the scale it'll think its too lean and start increasing the fuel trims. It can get to the point that it's so rich it's flooding the engine and fouling up the cat. Another indicator can be a rotten egg smell from the exhaust.
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Old 01-07-2016, 03:54 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Bluevitz-rs View Post
Ok, just checked and there's no O2 wire on your OBD port, it's only available on Conector C Pin 16 on the ECU. It is a white wire. Pin 13 is also white, but is the knock sensor.

The reading should oscillate from .050V - .900V

So in other words, within 1V. It should swing back and forth if you hold the revs at about 2000. If it's not going all the way up and all the way down, the sensor is shot.

Mine was reading 0.100-0.550V and no code we set but my millage was getting bad and I had a rougher idle. My fuel trims where shooting up to +23% at idle. Changed the sensor and started getting 100km more per tank and the idle smoothed out a bit.

edit: for reference, low voltage is a lean reading and high voltage is a rich reading on an O2 sensor. If the sensor is only showing the ECU half way up the scale it'll think its too lean and start increasing the fuel trims. It can get to the point that it's so rich it's flooding the engine and fouling up the cat. Another indicator can be a rotten egg smell from the exhaust.
Does the primary or secondary O2 sensor tend to wear out quicker?
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Old 01-07-2016, 04:32 PM   #24
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Does the primary or secondary O2 sensor tend to wear out quicker?
One shouldn't be any more susceptible to wear than the other. With that said, the primary has a lot more influence on the AFR than the Sub, so it can be noticed easier than a failing Sub sensor. The Sub's main job is to monitor the Cat's efficiency.
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Old 01-07-2016, 05:42 PM   #25
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An easy check for a air leak is to spray WD40. If your idle picks up you have a leak.
Check when you are having the problem, sometimes heat causes the expansion to cause the leak.
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Old 01-07-2016, 05:52 PM   #26
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^although it'll work it is messy as he'll, there's no way i'm spraying that on my baby!
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Old 01-07-2016, 09:18 PM   #27
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An easy check for a air leak is to spray WD40. If your idle picks up you have a leak.
Check when you are having the problem, sometimes heat causes the expansion to cause the leak.
The heat expansion is very true. Noticed that my car idled fine when I got home from work. Went to drive in circles with a friend to test heats effects. Turns out when it gets warm the issue arises. Let the engine cool in a parking lot and drove off issue cleared up. So the issue wasn't resolved by resetting the ecu as I originally thought; it was letting the engine cool.

So I'm thinking now its a leaking gasket somewhere, what do you all think ?

Also I will check my o2 tomorrow with the voltmeter thanks for the pin information and general o2 information bluevitz ! :)
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Old 01-07-2016, 10:56 PM   #28
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Check the O2 sensors to rule them out. And then invest in a scan tool that does readings as well. You'l thank yourself down the road and it'll easily pay for itself.

Use fuel trims to check for a vacuum leak. Just Google fuel trims or use the search function on the forum and info will pop up
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Old 01-14-2016, 02:15 PM   #29
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Turns out it was my VVT solenoid, it would keep the car in really advanced timing after heating up causing the issues.
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Old 01-14-2016, 02:51 PM   #30
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Yeah that would do it. Was it clogged or something? I've never head of the solenoid failing other than it getter broken.

Did someone perform an active test on it to confirm.


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Old 01-21-2016, 09:41 AM   #31
Zachccccc
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Yeah that would do it. Was it clogged or something? I've never head of the solenoid failing other than it getter broken.

Did someone perform an active test on it to confirm.


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Apologies on the slow response,
Y'know I didn't really think to ask. I took it to a shop because uni was starting and I didn't have the time. My guess was it was gunked up because, admittedly, I was embarrassingly behind on my oil change. I should have asked for the old part back :x
But then again the car drives much much better, so it would seem the solenoid had been having issues beforehand.
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