OMG MY K&N FILTER!!!

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by Yaribhini

Interesting that almost everybody missed the point that I tried to make and that is not that the K&N flows less than paper media, it is that it does so at the cost of filtration. A K&N let's more in which constitutes a dirtier motor and throttle body. I'd love to hear the arguments for needing more airflow for this 100hp air pump. Please don't kid yourself into thinking that the K&N is giving you better results. The only think that it's doing is making your motor and throttle dirtier.

Chino,
I assume you have your Yaris on the track often? That K&N filter must have you blowing by all the Porsche's and BMW's!?

C'mon guys, stock paper media is where it's at with this Yaris. That's a "no brainer."

Is that what the stock Denso filter is made out of? I thought it was a recycled egg carton.

It was too wierd looking for me so I went with the Beck/Arnley paper filter and got impressed, real quick!

[jaserhunter]

if K&N is sooo bad for your car then why do so many people still buy them? and are you guys really fighting over this.



come on..... really cause everyone knows that


K&N is the best lol

[ChinoCharles]

Chino,
I assume you have your Yaris on the track often? That K&N filter must have you blowing by all the Porsche's and BMW's!?

No, but my argument is that if they work on 600+ HP drag cars, I think they're good enough for my econobox.

Hey, don't listen. Go spend 20 bucks on a paper filter once every 6 months or a year. I'll still have my K&N in 10.

If you say K&N filters let more dirt in, you're just flat out wrong. You're arguing an invalid point. The world is flat, too, right? Come on now. It is an oiled filter. It operates on different principles, but the end result is simple.

And another thing... () every K&N filter you'll ever buy is going to increase the surface area of the filter element over stock. HELLO? Should I keep going?

[ChinoCharles]

http://www.knfilters.com/air_filter_testing.htm

^^ The shut up button.

AND I QUOTE

We are aware of the “urban myth” (K&N News Story) created by a few dealerships that a vehicle's MAF sensor can be contaminated by K&N filter oil. No evidence has ever been provided to support this “myth” and three years of diagnostic testing by K&N has shown that not only is this allegation not real, it is not even possible. In our opinion, it is an excuse for a dealership and/or the vehicle manufacturer to avoid a legitimate warranty repair. In the last 4 years, we have sold over 10,000,000 lifetime air filters and received only a few hundred calls from consumers who are having dealership or service provider challenges. We believe that Dealership's or service provider's real incentive may be to discourage the use of reusable products so they can sell disposable products over and over. In order to provide consumers with added comfort that they will not be placed in a bad position by an improper warranty denial, we offer our Consumer Protection Pledge.

Pop quiz: What element of the Yaris's MAF could POSSIBLY get dirty enough to cause issues?

[PetersRedYaris]

Originally Posted by Yaribhini

Interesting that almost everybody missed the point that I tried to make and that is not that the K&N flows less than paper media, it is that it does so at the cost of filtration. A K&N let's more in which constitutes a dirtier motor and throttle body. I'd love to hear the arguments for needing more airflow for this 100hp air pump. Please don't kid yourself into thinking that the K&N is giving you better results. The only think that it's doing is making your motor and throttle dirtier.

You are actually wrong... Paper filters let very fine dust right through that coats the inside of the intake tube and can easily be seen when replacing the filter. An oiled media on the other hand catches all that fine dust and traps it. The inside of the intake tube on my Tacoma looked like it was removed from a brand new truck, and that was after 50,000 miles without cleaning the K&N. Trust me, they work, even in harsh conditions...

As for the MAF, I have personally over oiled a K&N filter and caused a CEL. But cleaning the MAF is SIMPLE (using CRC MAF cleaner, don't EVER touch the element with a q-tip) and disconnecting the battery resets the light. No harm done.

Compared to a stock paper filter, K&N's are better in every way...

[ddongbap]

Since Toyota would have filters that'll damage their engines in the long run. Or maybe fine dust DOESN'T MATTER?

[firebird1999us]

Originally Posted by PetersRedYaris

Keep paying for them? One kit last for multiple cleanings, which only need to be done every 50,000 miles for regular street driving...

I've had my cleaning kit for like 10+ years and have cleaned filters like 10 times with it...I've got like half a container left of the cleaner and oil too

[ddongbap]

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

http://www.knfilters.com/air_filter_testing.htm

^^ The shut up button.

AND I QUOTE



Pop quiz: What element of the Yaris's MAF could POSSIBLY get dirty enough to cause issues?

Not that I'm trying to disprove this or anything, then what causes brand new MAFs to fail?

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

[URL]

Pop quiz: What element of the Yaris's MAF could POSSIBLY get dirty enough to cause issues?

You've never looked at one? It's not a hollow tube. Noticed the wire harness that plugs into it?

[MUSKOKA800]

I've had great success with K&N's over the years with no MAF issues. Here's my process;
Remove K&N drop-in
Re-install original OEM filter (which was nearly new when initially removed)
Remove any litter (bugs etc) from the dirty side with a soft brush.
Using K&N cleaner from kit, thoughtly soak and back-flush the K&N filter with warm tap water.
Shake off excess water and air dry overnight.
Next day (when 100% dry), spray both sides liberally with K&N filter oil ensuring that all pleats are moistened.
Lay filter on paper towelling for a couple hours to drain any surplus oil.
Wipe excess oil from filter frame and re-install in stock airbox.

The K&N service kit suggests cleaning be done at 50,000 to 100,000 mile intervals (for on-road use).
I do so annually which is approximately 25,000 kilometers (~15,500 miles)
I recently cleaned the filter after 27,000 kl. in my Yaris Sedan. It was much cleaner that past K&N's I've used which were cone types on K&N intake systems (Turbo-Talon, 5.0 Mustang). Could be that 1.5 hp doesn't draw the same volume of air as 200+ hp plus the Yaris filter has been protected inside the airbox with dirt only being drawn in from the bottom, whereas the cone filter are exposed to all dirt flying about the engine compartment, not just that pulled up to it by engine vacuum.

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by PetersRedYaris

As for the MAF, I have personally over oiled a K&N filter and caused a CEL. But cleaning the MAF is SIMPLE (using CRC MAF cleaner, don't EVER touch the element with a q-tip) and disconnecting the battery resets the light. No harm done.

It's an approved cleaning method on Identifix, unless someone isn't born with dexterity and nerve endings, and is real sloppy.

Compared to a stock paper filter, K&N's are better in every way...

Paper doesn't invite gunk buildup on the MAF quite as well, causing a 10-20hp loss at the wheels instead of about 1hp gain at the wheels, if you're lucky.

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

No, but my argument is that if they work on 600+ HP drag cars, I think they're good enough for my econobox.

Hey, don't listen. Go spend 20 bucks on a paper filter once every 6 months or a year. I'll still have my K&N in 10.

If you say K&N filters let more dirt in, you're just flat out wrong. You're arguing an invalid point. The world is flat, too, right? Come on now. It is an oiled filter. It operates on different principles, but the end result is simple.

And another thing... () every K&N filter you'll ever buy is going to increase the surface area of the filter element over stock. HELLO? Should I keep going?

I've never ran codes on a 600+ HP drag car

Sounds like you pulled the trigger on a K&N filter since the 24th!

[ChinoCharles]

Pop quiz: What element of the Yaris's MAF could POSSIBLY get dirty enough to cause issues?

A: The mirror!

Yarii have a Karman Vortex-style MAF. It works via a mirror located in the stalk of the sensor. Air is redirected up the stalk and against a tiny little mirror, and the oscillations of that mirror are measured via a photoreceiver that receives LED light that is reflected off the mirror.

SO, you guys are telling me that oil from a filter is going to make it all the way up the stalk of the MAF, contaminate it, and then the filter is going to let in enough dirt (which is also magically going to take a trip up the stalk of the sensor) and ruin it, too?

No, it won't. That is why Toyota uses these MAF's and have for decades. They are reliable. That is to say nothing of the fact that properly installed oiled filters do nothing to air flow sensors in the first place.

You guys are arguing urban legend. It comes up here about once a year, and it gets shot down every single time.

[Tamago]

:insert beating the dead horse .gif here:

[ChinoCharles]

Originally Posted by ddongbap

Not that I'm trying to disprove this or anything, then what causes brand new MAFs to fail?

Poor design. MAF circuit boards are sealed w/ silicon, and they are connected directly to the underlying hardware. Engine heat and general wear and tear can cause the plastics of a MAF sensor to degrade and allow some of that silicon to coat the thermistors and other good bits. This is usually the cause of "dirty" sensors... it actually comes from the sensor itself.

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

Pop quiz: What element of the Yaris's MAF could POSSIBLY get dirty enough to cause issues?

A: The mirror!

Yarii have a Karman Vortex-style MAF. It works via a mirror located in the stalk of the sensor. Air is redirected up the stalk and against a tiny little mirror, and the oscillations of that mirror are measured via a photoreceiver that receives LED light that is reflected off the mirror.

SO, you guys are telling me that oil from a filter is going to make it all the way up the stalk of the MAF, contaminate it, and then the filter is going to let in enough dirt (which is also magically going to take a trip up the stalk of the sensor) and ruin it, too?

No, it won't. That is why Toyota uses these MAF's and have for decades. They are reliable. That is to say nothing of the fact that properly installed oiled filters do nothing to air flow sensors in the first place.

You guys are arguing urban legend. It comes up here about once a year, and it gets shot down every single time.

Thanks. I'll look for one of those at the next StarTrek convention.

I just pulled mine out, it's not as fangled as you make it sound. Look at it. Airflow is directed straight up into the sensor, across the 2 wires that MEASURE the AIRFLOW, passes on thru the sensor and down into the main airflow to the throttle body.

And the main thing that needs to be remembered is that it's not downstream a foot or two, it sits directly above the filter, mounted right on the airbox.

[ChinoCharles]

Its the simplest air flow meter that I know of.

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

Poor design. MAF circuit boards are sealed w/ silicon, and they are connected directly to the underlying hardware. Engine heat and general wear and tear can cause the plastics of a MAF sensor to degrade and allow some of that silicon to coat the thermistors and other good bits. This is usually the cause of "dirty" sensors... it actually comes from the sensor itself.

they also do not react very well to voltage destabilization. lots of improper wiring or a loud sound system will kill a MAF pretty quickly. i saw at least 3 MAF's replaced in a few months while at toyota, all on cars with ghetto-rigged wiring