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11-24-2015, 01:52 AM | #1 |
I've made a post!
Drives: 2002 Toyota Echo Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 1
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2002 Echo Crank, No Start, No Spark, Immobilizer
Hi all
Would appreciate your help in diagnosing my 2002 Toyota Echo NCP10R, manual, 3 door hatch: - cranks, but will not start - battery is fine (and headlights etc work) - fuel pump is fine - recently serviced (a few weeks ago) - immobilizer light continues to flash with key in the ignition (tested all three keys); - engine check light is not coming on at start - no spark - fuses and EFI relays all look fine - have had the car since 04 with no prior trouble - no modifications of any kind Car stalled in traffic, started again, went forward 100m and stalled again - now will not start at all. Mechanic thinks it might be the ECU, but cannot confirm this. Any ideas? Any way to rule out the ECU or confirm that this is an ECU fault? Many thanks Last edited by Katooshy; 11-24-2015 at 02:11 AM. |
11-24-2015, 06:04 AM | #2 |
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The Toyota Techstream diagnostic tool would help in figuring out what is wrong and if it is indeed a bad ECM.
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11-24-2015, 08:31 AM | #3 |
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Caledonia Ont.
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If it isn't the ECU/immobilizer than look into a bad ground. There are 2 on the drivers side of the engine block near the front of the engine.
This causes this issue on my '02 Echo twice. It caused the ignition to not work (no spark). Th car would start when hooked up to a scan tool that had its own power source (the ECU was grounding through it instead), once disconnected the car would stall out. Although my Echo doesn't have an immobilizer the issue sounds the same
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11-28-2015, 11:18 AM | #4 |
Drives: 1sz fe Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Minsk
Posts: 11
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I have the same problem with Yaris 1999 year.
Please, point what contact should be grounded. In my case engine and all wires are out of car now. Bad ground looking as most possible reason, I think... To Katooshy: did you found the real reason? |
11-28-2015, 12:50 PM | #5 |
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Caledonia Ont.
Posts: 2,938
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There are two grounds on the engine block on the left side (drivers side) just to the front of the block. They come off of the large wiring loom that that fuel injector wires come off of. It I the 2 grounds for all of your ignition wires.
You will need small fingers and a head lamp to access it. Use the 10mm socket with an extensions and you'l b able to remove the 10mm bolt that holds each ground to the block. Inspect them and then lightly grind them down to clean the contcts and re attach. In my case it wasn't wasn't conact but the actual metal loop conact at the end which is crimped to the ground wire was loose and therefore the wires didn't have good contact. I had to recrimp and then everything was fine. When a scan computer that has it's own power supply was hooked up to the car it would start and run fine. Once diconnected t car would stall out. This is because the ecu was grounding through the scan tool. This will only work if your scan tool has its own power supply. a tool like an ultragauge won't work because they only run when the car is running. FYI both ground are in the same spot, one is about 1" above the other. Check them both.
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11-28-2015, 12:53 PM | #6 |
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Caledonia Ont.
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Oh, and if you find out the solution take the 2 seconds to post on here what fixed it. People don't mind helping but pay it forward so other can learn/fix th own similar future issues. It's just ignorant to post 1 or 2 times on a forum and ask for help and then fix the problem and never come back to state the solution.
*this isn't aimed at anyone specific, just general rant*
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11-28-2015, 01:24 PM | #7 |
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Caledonia Ont.
Posts: 2,938
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Here is a pic I was able to find on my phone. It doesn't show the best view of the block, but it give you an idea of where the grounds are located (circled in red)
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11-28-2015, 01:36 PM | #8 |
1NZ-6spd
Drives: '05 6-Spd Vitz RS Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,967
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I also had the problem with the ground. I forgot to tighten it after replacing the engine. Car ran for 1300km and one day driving down the road just totally died.
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11-28-2015, 02:32 PM | #9 |
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Caledonia Ont.
Posts: 2,938
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I found it surprising at how important the grounds are. Needless to say I learned my lesson and that will always be one of things first things I check
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12-01-2015, 03:58 PM | #10 |
Drives: 1sz fe Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Minsk
Posts: 11
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Update:
Yaris 1999. The long time (6 month) was without battery.
Now: Key is inserted, but immo light still flashing. Battery is ok. Starter is ok. I've checked the ECU ground, relay, fuses, wires. All is ok. Important question: Transponder get 12V on B+ from EFI Relay only on scheme! (Please, see the scheme attached). In my case EFI Relay doesn't close the contacts 5 and 3. No with inserted key, neither in "on" key position. How transponder (immo) can read the signal from key without power? What element is blocked by immobilizer in the ignition circuit? May be someone may explain the scheme... and give any ideas why engine doesn't work? |
12-01-2015, 07:24 PM | #11 |
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MREL is supposed to be powered when the ignition switch is in the ON position. Check for 12 volts on pin 2 of the EFI relay with the ignition switch on. If it is there, then the EFI relay is bad.
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12-02-2015, 01:19 PM | #12 |
Drives: 1sz fe Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Minsk
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Checked pin2 EFI relay: 0 volt.
Pin5=12 volt. No depending on key position. Batt pin1 on ECU=12 volt. Pin7 on ECU grounded with key inserted. I've checked the wire from pin5 EFI to pin2ECU. It is ok. So, no any volts on pin1 of transponder, because it after EFI relay. Immo light flashing. Always. |
12-02-2015, 09:09 PM | #13 | |
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Quote:
I would also check on the ignition switch connector: White/Light blue - 12 V constant power White/Red - 12 V constant power Black/Yellow - 12 V with Ignition in ON position Black/Red - 12 V with Ignition in ON position
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12-03-2015, 02:05 PM | #14 |
Drives: 1sz fe Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Minsk
Posts: 11
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Update
Update:
Thanks to CTScott, I bypassing EFI. Next changes: MREL is 12 v! Immo light is not flashing with inserted key. So, immobilizer is ok, I guess. I'm happy!! And one more great news: check engine appears on display. So, I hope ECU is is fine? But what next? Without bypassing I have the same problem. |
12-03-2015, 06:33 PM | #15 | |
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Quote:
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12-04-2015, 03:40 AM | #16 |
Drives: 1sz fe Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Minsk
Posts: 11
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The wires colors are not matched (with you mentioned) in my case on ignition connector.
So, see attachment. Would you like to copy, your post, but point PIN numbers (no colors) . I made diagnostic this connector as described in manual. Checked continuity between pins in different key positions. I did it without battery. All was ok. Today in evening will make procedure you described - voltage measure. P.S. Yesterday I've found 1 not grounded wire on ECU, because connector was broken. The wire come from ECU thorough Check Connector (Power Steering) to ground. I have no idea what it is exactly in English and how important this one. I grounded it, but nothing happen. |
12-07-2015, 08:55 AM | #17 |
Drives: 1sz fe Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Minsk
Posts: 11
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I've checked on the ignition switch connector: all is ok.
So, it seems to be a ECU failure. In internet I did find out that +12V should appear on MREL pin (ECU) if 2 condition are true: 1.+12 V on Batt 2. +12 V on IGSW (Key in "on" position) In my case there isn't any volt on MREL when key in on position, unfortunately |
12-07-2015, 09:25 AM | #18 |
1NZ-6spd
Drives: '05 6-Spd Vitz RS Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,967
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So have you tried a new relay yet?
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