Q: looking for some insight on my FE

[xed]

Hi all; long time no see.

I've had my 3dr 5spd Yaris for a little over a year now (14 months, 11.5k miles) and I've kept track of every fill up with gassavers.org. Here's the quick history...

- got the car in Oct07 and it took a few weeks to feel comfortable with the manual transmission.

- as soon as I was comfortable with the transmission I really made a point of driving with a feather foot

- I'm mindful of the rhythm of the lights and I try to time it so that I can slow down and still make the light instead of racing up to the light in order to just sit there until it turns green.

- I wasn't able to break 40mpg but I got very close. I started turning off the car at stoplights, etc. My rule of thumb is "if it's going to take more than 7 seconds then turn the car off."

- I've always downshifted instead of breaking to a stop. I learned about DFCO and figured that was pretty much what I was doing anyways.

- I replaced the air filter with one of the K&M filters that you oil and never replace.

- I have NOT switched to full synthetic oil. I've just had the dealer doing the oil changes and tire rotations every 5k. I keep the tires just under the max (I think max is 42psi so I have them at 40psi)

That's what I've been doing for pretty much the last year. I've been able to get and stay right around 40mpg http://www.gassavers.org/garage/viewgaslog/923 but I have not been able to get to 45mpg.

My commute is 18 miles (one way) and the area where I live is basically flat (coastal NC). I'm pretty good about keeping my speed between 50-55mph. This is a commuter car so I'm the only one that's ever in the car. I've pulled my spare and left it and the jack in the garage months ago. I'm avg weight/height so I'm not carrying around an extra couple of hundred pounds of my own spare tire around the waist.

I think I may be at the point where I need more feedback (i.e. scangauge) since I honestly don't know what else I can do differently. I keep thinking that I "should" be able to get 45mpg with good driving technique but I'm at a loss. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

thanks in advance

[Loren]

I'll try to help you with some of the things I've learned from having a Scangauge.

With a peak speed of 50-55, 45 mpg should be possible, but it relies primarily on just a few things:
1) VERY gentle acceleration. The kind of acceleration that's going to make any traffic behind you upset at your slowness. Shifting about every 10 mph is a good guide, but almost idling up to those shift points.
2) Pulse & Glide: Anticipation of traffic patterns (not just lights, but what other drivers are doing that might slow you down) and the terrain and using them as opportunities to "glide", but being mindful to "pulse" back up to speed VERY gently. On a short trip like yours, every time you can glide for 3 seconds, you're increasing your MPG by at least .1 mpg. Just lift for a few seconds, you'll lose 5 mph or so... and gently gain that back and do it again at the next opportunity. Do that once every mile on your 18 mile trip and you've gained 2 mpg easily!
3) DFCO: Use it profusely. Look even further down the road than you already do, and get off the gas even sooner and coast longer. It all adds up.
4) Avoid the urge to adjust your speed (other than slowing down as required) to match other traffic. No punching the throttle to pass anyone, no needlessly accelerating to keep up with the car ahead, just "drive your own game".

The absolute hardest thing about trying to get that kind of mileage is dealing with traffic. If you're lucky enough to be on a road with no traffic, 48-50 mpg should be achievable. I've found that it has more to do with YOU and how you drive than it has to do with the little details of your car. I've seen 48 mpg with my car with wide, sticky tires (I autocross when I'm not hypermiling!) and the air conditioner on. It just takes dedication and a light foot. A very light foot.

[voodoo22]

It's obvious you're putting a lot of effort into this and with that much dedication I'm sure you'll be able to improve your FE a little or a lot more as you improve your techniques.

Have you read the beating the epa article at cleanmpg? Everything you need to know is there.

You definitely cannot accelerate at too slow of a rate from a dead stop, but this isn't true as you increase in speed. If you're going 55 and are slowing down as you approach a light, but it turns green when your speed goes down to 30, you should give it more gas to get back to 55 than if you were going from a dead stop to 15 or so. I can't give you exact numbers as I don't have a scan gauge, but try to go by feel. If it feels like the car is dragging, give it a little more gas, if you feel like you're pushing it lay off the gas a bit.

I find it makes a huge difference for me as to how lightly I go on the gas peddle once I've reached cruising speed. About 3-5 mpg difference on my mostly hwy commute. Sometimes to retrain myself on how light I can go on the gas I slowly lay off the gas until I start to lose speed and then push down on the gas a little to stop losing. Of course, this very light pulsing on the gas changes as you're going up and down hills, but you say your commute is pretty flat so it should be a little easier for you.

IMO the major factors to look out for to get great FE are Speed (top speed as well as rate of acceleration), not using the A/C and going as lightly on the gas peddle at all times except for when accelerating between different speeds at highway speeds.

I know that people very experienced in these techniques can get close to and over 50mpg on our cars in all city driving with a MT, but they may be driving slower than possible in your conditions and/or using techniques you're not comfortable with. If I was you I'd pop over to cleanmpg and ask them more questions.

[b_hickman11]

Originally Posted by xed

Hi all; long time no see.

I've had my 3dr 5spd Yaris for a little over a year now (14 months, 11.5k miles) and I've kept track of every fill up with gassavers.org. Here's the quick history...

- got the car in Oct07 and it took a few weeks to feel comfortable with the manual transmission.

- as soon as I was comfortable with the transmission I really made a point of driving with a feather foot

- I'm mindful of the rhythm of the lights and I try to time it so that I can slow down and still make the light instead of racing up to the light in order to just sit there until it turns green.

- I wasn't able to break 40mpg but I got very close. I started turning off the car at stoplights, etc. My rule of thumb is "if it's going to take more than 7 seconds then turn the car off."

- I've always downshifted instead of breaking to a stop. I learned about DFCO and figured that was pretty much what I was doing anyways.

- I replaced the air filter with one of the K&M filters that you oil and never replace.

- I have NOT switched to full synthetic oil. I've just had the dealer doing the oil changes and tire rotations every 5k. I keep the tires just under the max (I think max is 42psi so I have them at 40psi)

That's what I've been doing for pretty much the last year. I've been able to get and stay right around 40mpg http://www.gassavers.org/garage/viewgaslog/923 but I have not been able to get to 45mpg.

My commute is 18 miles (one way) and the area where I live is basically flat (coastal NC). I'm pretty good about keeping my speed between 50-55mph. This is a commuter car so I'm the only one that's ever in the car. I've pulled my spare and left it and the jack in the garage months ago. I'm avg weight/height so I'm not carrying around an extra couple of hundred pounds of my own spare tire around the waist.

I think I may be at the point where I need more feedback (i.e. scangauge) since I honestly don't know what else I can do differently. I keep thinking that I "should" be able to get 45mpg with good driving technique but I'm at a loss. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

thanks in advance

All that work and you only get 40 mpg? I drive 70 mph, with AC on, and tires at 32 psi and I get 44 mpg in both of my AT Yaris Sedans!

[voodoo22]

Originally Posted by b_hickman11

All that work and you only get 40 mpg? I drive 70 mph, with AC on, and tires at 32 psi and I get 44 mpg in both of my AT Yaris Sedans!

Do you really have to post this statement over and over again? If it's true, that's great for you, but your experience doesn't apply at all to this persons efforts and is in no way helpful.

[b_hickman11]

Originally Posted by voodoo22

Do you really have to post this statement over and over again? If it's true, that's great for you, but your experience doesn't apply at all to this persons efforts and is in no way helpful.

Well maybe he should try and he could get the same results.....

[xed]

Originally Posted by b_hickman11

Well maybe he should try and he could get the same results.....

Exactly "what" should I try? If I " I drive 70 mph, with AC on, and tires at 32 psi and I get 44 mpg" I'll eat my hat.

[b_hickman11]

Well first start at the 32 since it's whats recommended....

[stuffy]

i'm not a lead foot by any stretch, but i also am a bit dumbfounded by yaris owners who routinely get above 40mpg.

i've recently been working at a job which is a 120 km round trip daily and i have been so light on the gas- extremely gradual accelerations and never driving over 80 km/h and i was seriously dissapointed by only achieving 40mpg. i'm not going to bother being so super light on the gas anymore because it's hardly made a difference, but it's definitely pissed off a lot of people behind me (i could actually see a woman mouthing the words "go-o-o-o-o-o!!!" in my rearview mirror, lol!). it's clearly not worth the amount of work i put into it.

i figure if it were the summer it might be at most 5-10% better (due to summer tires, gas, etc.) but still was a serious dissapointment.

[voodoo22]

In my experience going light on the gas gained me a couple MPG, but I was already driving conservatively. We had particularly bad weather in Ontario this past while with all the wind, blizzards etc and very wet roads. Any city driving at all just kills your MPG. Too bad there's no way to see how you would of done for FE if you weren't using a light foot this past while.

[stuffy]

yeah, i suppose that's true, although i've had some tanks where the weather was fairly good for the entire tank and it didn't seem to improve the fe very much.

also, i've not been doing much city driving- about 10 k out of the 120 would be city driving.

[BailOut]

Hello xed,

It sounds like you are off to a great start and have learned some highly disciplined driving skills. One thing you did not mention is your tire pressures. If you are still running around at 32 PSI it easily explains your current MPG cap as it creates more rolling resistance, not only making your glide distance shorter but also making acceleration require that much more energy.

[xed]

Originally Posted by BailOut

Hello xed,
One thing you did not mention is your tire pressures.

I have the stock 14" tires and I've been running them at the max which is 44psi. I double checked the other day and they were just under 35psi so I bet that the dealer redid the tire pressure when I went in for my 10k service so I guess I've been running around 32psi for the last 1.5k miles. I've got them all back to 44psi now so I'll see how my next couple of tanks go.

I wish I had a friend locally that had a scangauge that I could borrow for a week or two just so that I could see the real numbers as I'm driving. I just get the feeling that if I bought one that I would use it for a month and then not need it anymore.

[voodoo22]

Originally Posted by stuffy

yeah, i suppose that's true, although i've had some tanks where the weather was fairly good for the entire tank and it didn't seem to improve the fe very much.

also, i've not been doing much city driving- about 10 k out of the 120 would be city driving.

That's strange, you should be able to get much better mileage than, because about 2km of my 52km each way is city and the rest is highway. I virtually never brake, because I'm going 80-90 and even on my last tank I got 48.5 mpg during the bad weather and a lot more city driving than usual to the heart of Toronto.

I'm not doing anything special, if you're not going over 80, doing that little city driving and not stopping on the other portion of your commute, you should be able to easily get over 40 and closer to 50mpg.

[voodoo22]

Originally Posted by xed

I have the stock 14" tires and I've been running them at the max which is 44psi. I double checked the other day and they were just under 35psi so I bet that the dealer redid the tire pressure when I went in for my 10k service so I guess I've been running around 32psi for the last 1.5k miles. I've got them all back to 44psi now so I'll see how my next couple of tanks go.

I wish I had a friend locally that had a scangauge that I could borrow for a week or two just so that I could see the real numbers as I'm driving. I just get the feeling that if I bought one that I would use it for a month and then not need it anymore.

A scangauge isn't a bad thing, but if you keep at it, you'll get by without one. I can't justify the $200 for a scangauge in Canada, so I've taken extra interest in post from people like Bailout and others who have scangauges then try to really feel how the car is doing. I'd still like to use a sg to see if I could improve my numbers, but I cannot justify the expense now that I usually get over 50 mpg. If you keep at it you'll get to the point where you can feel what's good for the car, rather than just guessing. Use the force Luke

[stuffy]

Originally Posted by voodoo22

That's strange, you should be able to get much better mileage than, because about 2km of my 52km each way is city and the rest is highway. I virtually never brake, because I'm going 80-90 and even on my last tank I got 48.5 mpg during the bad weather and a lot more city driving than usual to the heart of Toronto.

I'm not doing anything special, if you're not going over 80, doing that little city driving and not stopping on the other portion of your commute, you should be able to easily get over 40 and closer to 50mpg.

yeah, i've been "driving without brakes" for the past few tanks, tire pressure was checked at each fill-up, shifting at 1500 rpm,
not sure what else i could do to improve those numbers.

considering the small benefits i've noticed versus the amount of pain and agony i've seemed to cause to other drivers on my trips, i think i'll go back to my normal driving- nothing aggressive, just taking it easy without working too hard.

[otterhere]

I've never gotten above 36, and that's working at it... Since that's what Toyota advertises, so I'd say that's the norm. Not sure how all these poster routinely get 40 mpg and above without even trying... If it sounds too good to be true, then.....

[voodoo22]

Originally Posted by stuffy

yeah, i've been "driving without brakes" for the past few tanks, tire pressure was checked at each fill-up, shifting at 1500 rpm,
not sure what else i could do to improve those numbers.

considering the small benefits i've noticed versus the amount of pain and agony i've seemed to cause to other drivers on my trips, i think i'll go back to my normal driving- nothing aggressive, just taking it easy without working too hard.

Don't worry about annoying people if you're doing nothing wrong. Do you think they'll care about you if they pressure you into driving too fast for the conditions, making a bad lane change etc and you crash and die? Not likely.

You also have to do what's right and safe for you. If you don't feel you're getting any benefits, than by all means don't do it. I'm surprised at your numbers, but I can't say 100% you should get better, because I am not in your shoes.

All I know, is only completely relevant to my situation. I do believe you should be able to do better, but it sounds like you're already a safe driver who doesn't speed. Also keep in mind with the bad weather and winter gas you will be getting worse numbers now than at any point in the year.