Yaris Spanks Hybrids in Environmentally Friendliness in Dust to Dust report

[nsmitchell]

Originally Posted by flint_mica_manual

Your logic is faulty. How on earth can you say that an electric car is more complex than a gasoline engine? A Prius is basically an electric car with a gasoline engine bolted on to recharge the batteries. Electric drive trains are infinitively simpler than the alternative. An electrical motor is a shaft with some wire and magnets. That's it. Compare that to a gasoline motor with cams, gears, transmissions, rods, pistons, bearing, all kinds of stuff. . .and if that wasn't all, you have to keep all that stuff in time or it self destructs. PLUS, all those parts are wearing on each other constantly for the life of the vehicle.

Electric motors have no such problems, and they have more power -- more efficiently put to the wheels.

Look at the Honda Incite. The first one came out about 10 years ago. Where are all the internet reports about people being ticked off because the batteries died? Or because the drive train failed?

Period. That report you cite makes claims that are not verified because they don't even disclose their methodology. And you want someone to "prove" it wrong.

That's right. Toyota became the world's largest automotive company by investing in wasteful technologies. If only they could get a business model as good as Hummer's!

It's not like hybrid technology is old either. Just because it's new and novel in the automotive world, doesn't mean it's an unproven technology. Have you ever seen a diesel train? Around here they are big black Norfolk Southern monsters that haul thousands of Toyota Tundras out of Princeton. Believe it or not, those trains are ELECTRIC. The diesel engines are just there to run the generators that power those huge electric engines that pull all the weight.

Tho, I dunno, maybe you could find a study of how much more complicated and wasteful they are compared to a coal fired steam engine. We got rid of those in favor of these "new fangled" disposable diesel electric hybrid trains. Freaking luddite.

[rant mode off]

Happy Friday!

So you don't think the HYBRID SYSTEM is complex. To make the electric motor and gas motor play nice nice together IS complex. They have lots of sensors and onboard computers to make sure they run smoothly together and max out mileage. Also a Prius at $25K is being sold by Toyota at a loss of about $3K. So a Prius is actually a $28K car. Why? Because it is quite a bit more complex than a Yaris at $13K. Good Grief! More expensive components that make up the hybrid system. More expensive to make, more, more more, etc... More complex machines to build the more complex parts. Those machines need servicing, maintenance by more skilled people ...yadayadayada... This all adds up. Open your mind a little. Do you actually think someone would write a report just to poo poo hybrid cars? That is why I thought the report was fascinating. All of the arguments against the report are so weak. I'm not just talking about the XLS file, look at the PDF files as well.

[flint_mica_manual]

Originally Posted by nsmitchell

Open your mind a little. Do you actually think someone would write a report just to poo poo hybrid cars? That is why I thought the report was fascinating. All of the arguments against the report are so weak. I'm not just talking about the XLS file, look at the PDF files as well.

This isn’t about having an open mind. It’s about critical thinking.

I have searched high and low to find info about this supposed story, and the only thing out there is the original study, right-wing sites linking to the original article (with cutesy latte-drinking-hollywood-loving-liberal-pinko-status-symbol comments from right wing filth to boot), and a bunch of forums talking about the original study. Where is the peer review? How did they get their data? Who PAID for this “study”? NOBODY freaking knows.

These are the hybrids that are or have been on the market for the last 20 years. Where is the data for these cars? WHY is the Toyota singled out in this “study”?

I, quite honestly, am done “debating” this nonsense. Nothing I can say will change your mind, and I’m not going to change my mind until I see something other than flame wars and ONE dubious “study” that is ridiculous in its conclusions.

1989 Audi 300 Duo
1994 Audi 80 Duo
1996 AC Propulsion tzero (primarily electric vehicle; 80 mile PbA, 300 mile Li-ion(2003) EV-mode)
1997 Toyota Prius (first commercially mass-produced and marketed hybrid automobile) Japanese market only
1997 Audi A4 Duo (Audi became the first manufacturer in Europe to mass produce a hybrid vehicle. Their hybrid vehicle is powered by a 66 kW 1.9-litre TDI-Engine and a 21 kW electric motor)
1999 Honda Insight 2000 model
[edit] 2000s
2000 Toyota Estima hybrid (Japanese market only)
2000 Toyota Prius US market
2002? Mazda Demio e-4WD (Japanese market only, used for traction assistance)
2002 New Flyer DE60LF (diesel-electric hybrid articulated bus)
2002 Dyna Diesel Hybrid (Japan only, Diesel Hybrid)
2002 Honda Civic Hybrid 2003 model
[edit] 2003
Renault Kangoo (plug-in hybrid electric vehicle)
Suzuki Twin
Toyota Alphard Hybrid
Toyota Prius (5 seat midsize) 2004 model year, second generation Hybrid Synergy Drive
[edit] 2004
Honda Accord Hybrid 2005 model
Ford Escape Hybrid 2005 model (released in late summer 2004)
General Motors city bus
[edit] 2005
Chevrolet Silverado/GMC Sierra Hybrid 2006 model, Mild hybrid
Honda Civic Hybrid 2006 model, second generation
Lexus RX 400h 2006 model year, second generation Hybrid Synergy Drive
Mercury Mariner hybrid
Toyota Kluger/Highlander Hybrid 2006 model
[edit] 2006
Lexus GS 450h 2007 model, second generation Hybrid Synergy Drive
Saturn VUE Green Line 2007 model, Mild hybrid
Toyota Camry Hybrid 2007 model, second generation Hybrid Synergy Drive
Toyota Estima/Previa hybrid minivan, second generation Hybrid Synergy Drive (Japanese market only)
[edit] 2007
Nissan Altima Hybrid (limited sales)
Saturn Aura Green Line Hybrid (BAS) 2008 model, Mild hybrid