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Old 04-28-2009, 09:57 AM   #109
ChinoCharles
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Loren, what about roll cages and their effects on handling on a car like the Yaris? Is a roll cage automatically going to make the car feel better or does it depend on the car and/or setup?
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:58 AM   #110
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Oh and yeah, that terrible gas mileage post is totally false. My gas mileage didn't change a bit.
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Old 04-28-2009, 10:03 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinoCharles View Post
Loren, what about roll cages and their effects on handling on a car like the Yaris? Is a roll cage automatically going to make the car feel better or does it depend on the car and/or setup?
you'll feel much more turn-in confidence (stiffens the car immensely) and adds a LOT of weight to the car, so be prepared to yawn on take-off.
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you nailed it sir.
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Old 04-28-2009, 10:14 AM   #112
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A cage provides a more rigid foundation for the suspension, so that the car's body becomes less of an "undamped spring" in the grander scheme of things. The Yaris has a pretty stiff structure, anyway, so it's not going to make the degree of difference that it would in some cars.

Same with braces and bars. A well-engineered bar in the right place (such as the X-brace in the rear) can make a difference in the handling of the car. A good rear brace will have a similar (but more subtle) effect to adding a larger rear swaybar. You're keeping parts that aren't supposed to move from moving (even though they might only move a millimeter on the Yaris), which makes the suspension that bolts to those parts more effective.

But, unless you're building an all-out race car that NEEDS a cage for safety, you're far better off without one. Weight is king.
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Old 04-28-2009, 10:18 AM   #113
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Right on! Thanks Loren and Tamago, good stuff.
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Old 04-28-2009, 03:29 PM   #114
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Oh and yeah, that terrible gas mileage post is totally false. My gas mileage didn't change a bit.

You had to have taken a 30% hit just running 93 octane. Fact is there is no elegant OBDII scan compliant way to tune a FI Yaris. If your running a piggy back to keep the OBDII port you must be running dangerously lean to not see a decline in mpg. If you threw away the OEM ECU and OBDII you have an off-road vehicle in most states.

This has been a great discussion and hope it opens some eyes to what a great platform the Yaris could be.

Lack of an ECU hack and simple lack of performance data with various mid-level suspension upgrades are all we need to keep the ball rolling.


I installed TRD springs, Kokico Blue shocks, and a TRD sway bar on the rear axel today, its like a new car literally. Doing the fronts tomorrow. I have a funny feeling that the car will handle better with the stock shocks/springs up front, maybe even better with the front sway bar removed. But we need data. Can you tell I am an engineer (Harley-Davidson)?

Keep the dialog going, I don't mind being told I am wrong about things, it wouldn't be the first time my info was out of date.
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Old 04-28-2009, 03:55 PM   #115
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I installed TRD springs, Kokico Blue shocks, and a TRD sway bar on the rear axel today, its like a new car literally. Doing the fronts tomorrow. I have a funny feeling that the car will handle better with the stock shocks/springs up front, maybe even better with the front sway bar removed. But we need data. Can you tell I am an engineer (Harley-Davidson)?
You're right, the car probably will ultimately handle better with the TRD springs and stiffer shocks on the rear and the stockers up front. It will look goofy (too tall in the front), and the steering response will be sloppy because the front will be so soft... but I would expect almost no understeer from a setup like that!

Ditto with removing the front swaybar. It's going to make the front end feel sloppy, but in spite of feeling a little off, it's going to stay HOOKED UP.

If you're an engineer, then you know that any data is only valid in its test environment when all outside variables are controlled. That's one of the hardest things about working with suspension OUTSIDE of a controlled test environment. Things change. Everybody's on different tires, the weather is different from day to day, tire pressures vary, road conditions vary, and on and on.

Best you can do is find a safe place to test and come up with a valid test method. Run a skidpad of of a fixed diameter and time two laps in each direction and take the average. (you can calculate the G's from that if you really want to, but it's not relevant) Make ONE change to the car and try it again. If you make more than one change between tests, you'll never really know which one worked.
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Old 04-28-2009, 04:02 PM   #116
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You had to have taken a 30% hit just running 93 octane. Fact is there is no elegant OBDII scan compliant way to tune a FI Yaris. If your running a piggy back to keep the OBDII port you must be running dangerously lean to not see a decline in mpg. If you threw away the OEM ECU and OBDII you have an off-road vehicle in most states.
Once I have a wideband I'll be able to tell you more about the AFR, but for now I can tell you I'm running Shell 93, getting 35 MPG and pushing lots more power.
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Old 04-28-2009, 04:24 PM   #117
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Once I have a wideband I'll be able to tell you more about the AFR, but for now I can tell you I'm running Shell 93, getting 35 MPG and pushing lots more power.
what are you doing for engine managment?
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Old 04-28-2009, 04:43 PM   #118
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E-manage blue.
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Old 04-28-2009, 06:38 PM   #119
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PFFFT . Someone is doing something innovative with the Yaris . You will see the results by next summer

If you want to crack the Yaris ECU , contact Toyota Headquarters .

If Yaris World wants to set itself apart from other car forums it should sponsor a little league sports team (ANY) then get someone to write an article about it . To sponsor a sports team anywhere in the US it would cost about $350-$500 . If everybody anties up $5-$10 Yaris World could have their own team ? How kool would that be ? Seeing a bunch of 5th graders running up and down the field with Yaris World shirts on , or even better (Headline) "Yaris World , League Champs"
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Old 04-28-2009, 06:50 PM   #120
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Old 04-30-2009, 11:37 AM   #121
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Ive been reading alot about the yaris in the last year and a half. Id say the most useful information has mainly come from members of this forum. First of all Id like to say thanks to you all for shareing the knowledge gained from trying to mod the yaris in what ever way you have.

So with that said, Id like to get to what I think is the heart of what seems to be keeping us from "unlocking the Full potential" of the yaris

The damn ECU.

Im not going to BS and say its a simple fix, because it isnt. What we need if a way to either replace or reprogram it. I think getting an aftermarket ECU is a last resort due to the exspense of it. What Ive been looking for is a way to "break into" the stock ecu and map it. I assume that it would have aready been done by some one if it wern't for some of the features like the "learning" ability and the VVti. Ultimately I personaly would like to derive a way to replace the ECU with a netbook PC running a ECU "emulator".

To do this I we need a few key components
-Orignal ECU map/image (or posiably the sofware itsself)
-usb to ECU cable harness converter
-"yaris ECU emulator" software

all three step are a huge undertaking in themselves. Weather its feasiable at all is yet to be seen.
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Old 04-30-2009, 11:58 AM   #122
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There are aftermarket ECU's that can run the Yaris via DBC, but you are left with a track vehicle.


We need one of these to be developed:

1. I hacked Toyota ECU - wont hapen to little demand
2. Stand Alone engine management with a functioning OBDII port
3. An OBDII port simulator that gives you a pass when big brother plugs into your car, it should be so simple I am tempted to aplly for a patent.


I am very sorry if I offend the piggy back users here, I just see them as a compromise not offereing a tune as good as factory with holes and dangerous lean spots. Hope i am wrong.


Back to the original topic on suspension upgrades I finished adding Kokico shocks, TRD springs, and a TRD sway bar, the car is completely transformed, I wish I had lateral g and slalom results to report, but for my daily commute I am completely satisfied. This is the suspension Toyota should have made an option, it is very good, Better than my EG Civic with Koni struts.springs.
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Old 04-30-2009, 01:31 PM   #123
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How hard would it be to make an ECU replacement? Maybe it could be done with a programmable chip like an Arduino or 3 or some other programmable chips? I guess it's probably too complex to do this, but I'd like to know for sure. Any electronic engineers out there?
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Old 04-30-2009, 01:43 PM   #124
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How hard would it be to make an ECU replacement? Maybe it could be done with a programmable chip like an Arduino or 3 or some other programmable chips? I guess it's probably too complex to do this, but I'd like to know for sure. Any electronic engineers out there?
Sure you can replace the ECU, but in my state it becaomes an offroad vehicle wih out a viable OBDII port. The fact the standalone developers haven't included an fuxtioning OBDII port is really missing the mark. We are probably just a few years awa from a OBDII simulator which would open the Yaris to kille opportuniies, Pretty good typing for 5 xanaxx's
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Old 04-30-2009, 02:03 PM   #125
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Pretty good typing for 5 xanaxx's
EPIC FAIL!
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