Tokico HTS

[largeorangefont]

Originally Posted by kngrsll

Most of the fast Honda track/autox cars ive seen in my experience were using the GC/Koni set up. The HTS are just as good if not better than the OTS yellows, so there is a ton of potential. Will that level of suspension quality matter to most owners? Apparently not, its more about saving $400 than about picking the pieces that can really maximize the cars potential in competition (that have ACTUAL dyno graphs with adjustablity that does what it is supposed to.) Granted, most yaris owners are not going to take their cars to nationals, regionals, or try to win SCCA autoxs or time trial, but to me, id rather fork out the extra $400 for components i trust.

For example, i used to have a 240sx that was built like your typical tuner car. Lots of bracing, big brake kit, adjustable arms, big wheels, and D2 coilovers. So i autox'd a few times and really got interested in it. A guy i started hanging out with gave me some advice, build your car to fit a class and maximize its potential instead of throwing random parts at it that you dont know how to adjust. So i sold the big brakes, sold the braces and arms, and used that money to buy slicks, bushings, and driving time at autox and track days. The car drove so much better! With a proper alignment at a race shop with settings derived for performance driving, i was now winning autox's regularly (in my class of course lol.) The next big crux? The cheapo D2 coilovers. I got rid of them to run koni yellows and GC's, and again the same result. The car improved ALOT. The dampers actually worked, they actually responded to adjustment as well! I nearly won a regional event, and a i made a former national champion mad bc i was so close to his time and i was just so no name kid who had gotten good advice and listened to it. So the moral of the story is, if you want to race and compete, you really need to think about the parts you select. I have applied those lessons to my newest car and its gone very well. It is well balanced, great to drive, and easy to maintain. My first mod was an a custom alignment which made a massive difference. The next mod was the springs, which didnt really change anything bc they were near stock rates. The final mod was the dampers/rear sway bar which really changed the car. It is an amazing little machine to drive now...

Im not saying the ebay coilovers have their place. If you really want to slam your car for cheap, they are great. If you want to race at a high level of competition, i dont think they are going to cut it.

so overall, i guess i do agree with you... but it still makes me frustrated lol

And I agree with you. I'm not knocking you, running GC sleeves would be a great setup if they made them, or you could get something to work.

You know as well as I do that 99% of Yaris owners aren't going to spend the extra cash to have such a setup however.

A correctly valved Koni/HTS etc. with a coilover sleeve setup will outperform a "cheap" coilover kits in most (if not all) cases. Some of the "cheap" coilover kits are obviously better than others. Unfortunately, Yaris owners don't have many choices for "stiff" coilover setups.

I'm leaving the Teins out purposely because they are more for street performance.

In this case you are talking a 30% price difference minimum between the two setups. I don't think that a HTS/GC setup would end up being 30% better than K sport coilovers for instance.

Generally speaking, I dont think there is anything wrong with a GOOD "cheap" coilover (Stance, BC, etc.) As I said, some are better than others. D2s would not be on my "good" list from what I have seen of them.

I have experience with both types of setups. I have custom valved Bilsteins with coilover sleeves on my Mustang Cobra. I like the setup a lot, and I am as fast or faster than many EVOs and STIs on technical tracks.

I have BC coilovers on my RX7, which is primeraly a track car. I have been very satisfied with the coilovers. Out of the box they sucked, and were extremely stiff. Once I set the damping correctly, The car handled and drove much better, and rides well considering the spring rates. It took about 20 minutes driving around do get them dialed in. Again, I'm not going for SCCA Run off status here, but I was faced with the same issue. $1200+ for Konis and GC sleeves, or get a coilover kit for $800. I rode in cars with the Konis and the feel was similar. I could see the Koni's being more consistent near the limit, but at this point it was not worth the extra 30% price.

I think the main problem with the "cheap" coilovers is that they have so many damping settings people never get them set up correctly, and dont get the settings balanced from front to rear, or they get rediculously stiff springs.

[kngrsll]

i thought i replied to that? oh well... here is a pic from the test. Still working on the article...



that is at 93 mph in turn 3 at roebling road!

[HTM Yaris]

Ken , when you do your article , please tell everyone about the staggered wheel size that you are using ( MR2 + 15"195 up front and 16" 205 in the rear ) . My MR2 is that way anyway .

[largeorangefont]

Originally Posted by kngrsll

i thought i replied to that? oh well... here is a pic from the test. Still working on the article...



that is at 93 mph in turn 3 at roebling road!

Car looks good... How do you like that Ultra rear sway bar?

[markitect]

Any chance of getting a dampening graph on these, preferable with stock graphed as well?

[regal]

Stilll not hearing about springs that can be matched to these and give the benefit of the extra cost over blues?

[largeorangefont]

Originally Posted by regal

Stilll not hearing about springs that can be matched to these and give the benefit of the extra cost over blues?

Because there are none.

I'm sure you will be able to match these better to existing springs however.

[kngrsll]

Originally Posted by largeorangefont

Car looks good... How do you like that Ultra rear sway bar?

the rear bar is awesome... the car is really really well balanced. everyone that drove it said it didnt need any front to rear adjustment, it was spot on!

Originally Posted by HTM Yaris

Ken , when you do your article , please tell everyone about the staggered wheel size that you are using ( MR2 + 15"195 up front and 16" 205 in the rear ) . My MR2 is that way anyway .

The MR2 wheels i am are all 15", but the ones in the front are 6.5" wide, and the rears are 6" wide. The tires are all 195/55/15 star spec direzzas (which stick like GLUE and never got greasy!)

Originally Posted by regal

Stilll not hearing about springs that can be matched to these and give the benefit of the extra cost over blues?

yeah, havent heard anything either. with some creativity, you can come up with a sleeve/top hat combo so you can run any spring you could think of. I am working on that now. for example: http://volvospeed.com/Mods/diy_coilovers.html

Originally Posted by markitect

Any chance of getting a dampening graph on these, preferable with stock graphed as well?

yeah, we should be able to get a full dampening graph. there is a generic one on their site, but it is not specific to the yaris. It is useful for seeing the adjustment ranges, but not for the yaris unfortunately.

[kngrsll]

i ordered the parts to install coilover springs today. Lets see if this works!!

As for spring rates, that was kinda tricky. Right now, it has an Ultra Racing rear sway bar (23mm), and DF210s (3kg F, 2.2kg R). The balance of the car was very good at the track. Right now there is a 45 lb difference (0.8 x 56 to convert Kg/mm to Lb/In) with the front being the more stiff end. So i decided to get 300 lb springs for the front AND rear. I liked the balance already, but i decided to shift it towards the rear just a little. I have not tried autoxing yet, and the track i was on was a very soft flowing track with not alot of FAST transitions. So this setup will increase the rear spring rates by 50 lbs over the current set up, while increasing the current rates by 80% in the front and a 145% in the rear (300/56= 5.4 kg.)

ill let you know how the install goes, hopefully do a DIY too.

[regal]

personally I'de like to see them offer a HTS spring and shock combo like Koni reds. That way you know you are getting a spring made thr the shock and vive-versa. Using coil-overpsring with these just doesn't seem like an elaagant soluion.

[kngrsll]

Originally Posted by regal

personally I'de like to see them offer a HTS spring and shock combo like Koni reds. That way you know you are getting a spring made thr the shock and vive-versa. Using coil-overpsring with these just doesn't seem like an elaagant soluion.

The fact that they are adjustable means they can be used on any spring you want to use. So if want to shift the balance further rear, i can accommodate by increasing the dampening, and so on...

This set up is not for those who want to just bolt stuff on and leave it. If you dont like to tinker, change your setup, or have adjustability, then i would just get a set of blues and some tein springs. I am doing this because i want to compete. I want to do time trials, autox, and win. I want a higher level of performance than bolt on parts allow. So it takes some work and creativity unless you own a performance oriented car like an S2k, Porsche, or BMW which has nearly any time of suspension you could imagine.

[regal]

Originally Posted by kngrsll

The fact that they are adjustable means they can be used on any spring you want to use. So if want to shift the balance further rear, i can accommodate by increasing the dampening, and so on...

This

Point is that there are no springs made stiff enough to take full adventage of the higher settings (particularly the rear.) When someone make a real performance rear spring for thr Yaris I'm buying th HTS, but not until then, I don't see much gain without it.

[kngrsll]

Originally Posted by regal

Point is that there are no springs made stiff enough to take full adventage of the higher settings (particularly the rear.) When someone make a real performance rear spring for thr Yaris I'm buying th HTS, but not until then, I don't see much gain without it.

working on it... just relax.

[Lafiro]

hmmm what is this: http://www.jazzproparts.com/Tokico_H...yota-yaris.htm Nonsense? or?

[mrbond]

^ ?!?!
Even if that's an individual price, that's still pretty darn good.

[yaris 2sz]

write ''yaris'' and push ''search''... (look page 3 )
http://www.jazzproparts.com/SearchResults.asp

[kngrsll]

Originally Posted by Lafiro

hmmm what is this: http://www.jazzproparts.com/Tokico_H...yota-yaris.htm Nonsense? or?

i dunno what that is, but i know what this is: http://www.jazzproparts.com/Tokico_H...yota-yaris.htm

[Lafiro]

So... from what I found and posted, NOT trying to get flamed on here....

What do you guys think of those? I mean part numbers are not the same as what was posted above earlier in the thread. So it makes me wonder how this guy somehow has these already and a low price, I think.