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Old 11-08-2009, 03:01 AM   #1
yaris-me
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Broader unemployment measure at 17.5%

Nearly 16 million unemployed. Obama extends unemployment benefits and gives tax credit to home buyers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/07/bu...my/07econ.html
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Old 11-08-2009, 04:00 AM   #2
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Old 11-08-2009, 11:28 PM   #3
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Obama caused all these people to lose their jobs. Flat out. We would be much better off if All Obama did was waste taxpayers money on dates with his wife and parties, and ignoring the running the country part.

You do nothing, and more people would have their jobs.

And more importantly, government has caused every single issue our economy is currently facing with idiotic regulations created by people who have zero business sense.

Elected government officials need to realize being elected does not immediately mean they have real world experience. They still have none, and probably never will. Stop trying to tell people how to run their lives and businesess.
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Old 11-09-2009, 10:49 AM   #4
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yet we keep giving millions of dollars in aid to other countries while ours suffers

save the children in (insert country name here) how about we save our own first then go help others?
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Old 11-09-2009, 11:52 AM   #5
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yet we keep giving millions of dollars in aid to other countries while ours suffers

save the children in (insert country name here) how about we save our own first then go help others?
Amen to that. The amount we give to foriegn countries is downright absurd. There is large amounts of money given to the same countries every single year. If they can't handle whatever they are doing, why the heck should we subsidize them?

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You really believe that Obama is to blame for all the job losses? He inherited the problem that we are in right now. Now you wanna talk about dates with the wife and parties not to mention vacations you need to look at bush. That guy spent more time out of office than in it.

How many people would have lost their jobs if gm and other auto manufacturers would have folded, including the fallout from manufacturers? What about all the banks, what if all those jobs evaporated and the banks folded up? Now sure the fdic would have stepped in and covered peoples money up to 200,000 or 250,000 dollars but those people would still be out of jobs. There is no perfect answer to fix the problem we are in but to just say it is Obama's fault is ignorant.

This makes no sense. The more that don't have jobs the more people that are not spending, the more people that cannot afford their mortgages, car payments etc, etc. This believe it or not would eventually affect you to. You think the great depression was bad, it would have had nothing on what would have been like had the not government stepped in.


You voted these people in. Maybe not every single one of them but you did none the less. If you did not vote or you do not vote then its hard to criticize how the people run the country. Call, email or mail your congressmen, mayor or governor letters with your concerns. Get involved.
The are trying to help but people are complaining, ranting and raving and just blaming Obama. Your representatives, which are elected are the ones voting on these bills, again call them and voice your opinions.

In my opinion republicans believe in trickle down economics and democrats believe in trickle up. Republicans are for the rich and democrats are for the not rich.
Obama did not inherit this problem. Not at all. Under Bush unemployment hovered right around 4%. Obama has more then doubled it.

I have absolutely no problem with the President taking vacations. They are human beings after all. I have massive problems with a President using taxpayer funds to do so. Obama has been throwing massive and absurdly extravagant parties all the time. And he always uses taxpayer money.

GM would not have folded. It would have been bought out by a company that actually knew what it was doing. Gm obviously does not, and hasn't for a long time, if they ever have. Chrysler should have been allowed to fail in the 80's.

The bank crisis was caused by the federal government trying to tell banks how to do things. If Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac didn't exist, there would not have been a banking crisis. The current banking system and its regulations are inherently flawed. It must be fixed to make some sense, or we will have constant banking issues.

Ooh, talking about the Great Depression, thank you for bringing that up. While it might not have been directly caused by governmental rules and regulations (and that is still debatable) it was prolonged because of the great society. The USA was the only country still in a depression before WW2. The government directly caused many of the issues.

Let's talk simple economics. The more the government spends, the more they have to tax. And if they don't tax, the money becomes worth less and less. Our government is going to destroy the dollar if they keep on the path they are going.

If people cannot afford what they have, they should not have bought it. Sorry but the average American consumer has proven they are completely clueless when it comes to finances. I feel no sorrow for people who carry credit card debt that is any significant percent of their annual income.

And anyone with a brain will know it will eventually effect them. Good. The quicker everything bottoms out, the more people learn. The Great Depression taught an entire generation how to be responsible and thrifty with money. The current generation has completely forgotten all of those lessons. That is why we have the current economic problems.

You cannot save everyone. If you try you will end up losing everything. We aren't that far off from some economic problems we have never seen before. The Great Depression will look like nothing if we stay the course we are currently on.

The government has turned what were a few stupid companies into an economic depression. And is now trying to lie about it. And they are trying to solve the problems the exact same way they created the problems.

Government is always the problem. Always. It cannot solve anything, only cause problems. Let individuals fix things, let government beaurocrats make sure individuals are protected.

Oh, The American people are speaking out, and loudly. And thier "elected representatives"(gag) are insulting them. The morons in congress don't represent anyone but themselves anymore.

Obama is to blame. People were being told he would do this a few years before the election. I am not surpised this is happening, it was obvious this is what Obama wanted.

There is sadly very little real difference between Republicans and Democrats nowadays. McCain would have caused the same issues Obama has, he would have just done it a little slower. Democrats are much worse though.

And Bush gave Obama the ammunition he needed with TARP. Just so sad.

The problem is the two party system. Democrats are catering to communists at the moment, and the republican leadership thinks the only way it can get anywhere is to be "democrat lite."

The problem is government beaurocrats and our "elected officials" don't have much, if any, real world experience. Most of these people have never held a real job. Obama is a great example of this. The USA is the very business he has ever run. And people are surprised with the results?
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Old 11-09-2009, 11:58 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by why? View Post
Obama did not inherit this problem. Not at all. Under Bush unemployment hovered right around 4%. Obama has more then doubled it.
Dude.. the least you could do is google "unemployment under bush"

"U.S. unemployment rates under President Bush have reached a 14-year high. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, unemployment climbed to 6.5 percent in October, "

http://blogs.payscale.com/salary_rep...8/11/post.html

Now stop spewing BS and blaming everything on Obama.

oh boy... I just got to the part about fannie mae... you REALLY have no clue, do you.....
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Old 11-09-2009, 12:13 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by why? View Post
Amen to that. The amount we give to foriegn countries is downright absurd. There is large amounts of money given to the same countries every single year. If they can't handle whatever they are doing, why the heck should we subsidize them?



Obama did not inherit this problem. Not at all. Under Bush unemployment hovered right around 4%. Obama has more then doubled it.

I have absolutely no problem with the President taking vacations. They are human beings after all. I have massive problems with a President using taxpayer funds to do so. Obama has been throwing massive and absurdly extravagant parties all the time. And he always uses taxpayer money.

GM would not have folded. It would have been bought out by a company that actually knew what it was doing. Gm obviously does not, and hasn't for a long time, if they ever have. Chrysler should have been allowed to fail in the 80's.

The bank crisis was caused by the federal government trying to tell banks how to do things. If Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac didn't exist, there would not have been a banking crisis. The current banking system and its regulations are inherently flawed. It must be fixed to make some sense, or we will have constant banking issues.

Ooh, talking about the Great Depression, thank you for bringing that up. While it might not have been directly caused by governmental rules and regulations (and that is still debatable) it was prolonged because of the great society. The USA was the only country still in a depression before WW2. The government directly caused many of the issues.

Let's talk simple economics. The more the government spends, the more they have to tax. And if they don't tax, the money becomes worth less and less. Our government is going to destroy the dollar if they keep on the path they are going.

If people cannot afford what they have, they should not have bought it. Sorry but the average American consumer has proven they are completely clueless when it comes to finances. I feel no sorrow for people who carry credit card debt that is any significant percent of their annual income.

And anyone with a brain will know it will eventually effect them. Good. The quicker everything bottoms out, the more people learn. The Great Depression taught an entire generation how to be responsible and thrifty with money. The current generation has completely forgotten all of those lessons. That is why we have the current economic problems.

You cannot save everyone. If you try you will end up losing everything. We aren't that far off from some economic problems we have never seen before. The Great Depression will look like nothing if we stay the course we are currently on.

The government has turned what were a few stupid companies into an economic depression. And is now trying to lie about it. And they are trying to solve the problems the exact same way they created the problems.

Government is always the problem. Always. It cannot solve anything, only cause problems. Let individuals fix things, let government beaurocrats make sure individuals are protected.

Oh, The American people are speaking out, and loudly. And thier "elected representatives"(gag) are insulting them. The morons in congress don't represent anyone but themselves anymore.

Obama is to blame. People were being told he would do this a few years before the election. I am not surpised this is happening, it was obvious this is what Obama wanted.

There is sadly very little real difference between Republicans and Democrats nowadays. McCain would have caused the same issues Obama has, he would have just done it a little slower. Democrats are much worse though.

And Bush gave Obama the ammunition he needed with TARP. Just so sad.

The problem is the two party system. Democrats are catering to communists at the moment, and the republican leadership thinks the only way it can get anywhere is to be "democrat lite."

The problem is government beaurocrats and our "elected officials" don't have much, if any, real world experience. Most of these people have never held a real job. Obama is a great example of this. The USA is the very business he has ever run. And people are surprised with the results?
you need to read more
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Old 11-09-2009, 12:15 PM   #8
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Not to crap on this parade, but there's a social group on YW for this type of discussion. See here.
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Old 11-09-2009, 01:24 PM   #9
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Not to crap on this parade, but there's a social group on YW for this type of discussion. See here.
I didn't know that. the social groups seem kind of hidden. lol, ok maybe not. I'm joining.
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Old 11-09-2009, 02:46 PM   #10
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I didn't know that. the social groups seem kind of hidden. lol, ok maybe not. I'm joining.
I agree with you, they are, kinda.

The political threads tend to get more opinionated / inflammatory type of comments than the average thread on here so we had to move the party to a social group instead, which is less visible but also less moderated than the rest of the forum.
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Old 11-09-2009, 12:41 PM   #11
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Is this really bothering you altitude? We are not flaming anyone, we are having a discussion. If you do not want to read please don't. Not trying to be mean.
Not bothering me at all, just letting you all know there's been a section set up specifically for this type of discussion.
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Old 11-09-2009, 12:30 PM   #12
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I'm sure that isn't the only flaw in why?'s analysis here. When one pulls a pin on a grenade, it doesn't go off right away; Bush left a few grenades with the pins pulled. Obama was set up, and much of what he faces goes back some time.

In the first place, a previous administration deregulated a great deal of the US, transportation for instance, starting races to the bottom, trucking being the obvious example: "I can do that delivery cheaper!", and the next thing one knows, they are rewriting regulations to keep these poor guys from driving 20 hours at a time just to make a meager living. Safety of the trucks dropped, due to poor maintenance, and many people die because of deregulation. Not Obama's fault.

Then they dropped much of the trade regulations, and most low-to-middle class jobs headed overseas. A carpetmaker who made $12/hr in the US is being paid $3/day, and Wally World is flogging them to us with only one sales line: the product is cheaper here. Not Obama's fault; the WalMartians are the culprits.

Then they started two wars: many empires have done this just before they collapsed, and the US hasn't learned the lesson. One less war would allow huge changes in the education system which is under severe stress; two less wars would allow tax dollars for a proper health care system. The rest of the world is watching the US head for failure, and the average American is still yelling that Obama isn't doing his job. Man, how sad is that? And what can Obama do to stop it?

And GM has been building rubbish for decades. The word is that it is too big to fail, but it isn't. The loss of jobs is important, but these guys will move on, hopefully to some other auto manufacturing facility that isn't so bloated. If anyone thinks Government has too much bureaucracy (it has), they should check how many productive and non-productive employees work at GM. Paper pushers and CEOs produce no cars, workers do. Once I worked for a company where there were 12 employees, and only 2 of us actually produced product; guess how long it lasted? So why blame Obama?

Can I recommend some objective research here? I suggest that why? is spending too much time watching Rush Limbaugh...
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Old 11-09-2009, 12:33 PM   #13
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Old 11-09-2009, 02:00 PM   #14
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Everyone in this thread is wrong. And everyone in this thread is right.

We need to stop saying that one president is good and one is bad and realize that they are all bad. There is no such thing as a decent politician at any level past local, and even then those can be corrupt too. Perhaps we should take the time to realize that our government has grown far from the ideal that it started as and, as such, needs to be torn down and rebuilt anew. It's no wonder politicians ignore the constitution; they ignore EVERYTHING this nation was built on. And you still think US is greatest country in world? HAH! We just too stupid to unite and expect better than what we have become.

Here is a quick anecdote that describes how we have gotten to this point, and why we have let it get this far:

"If you drop a frog in a pot of boiling water, it will of course frantically try to clamber out. But if you place it gently in a pot of tepid water and turn the heat on low, it will float there quite placidly. As the water gradually heats up, the frog will sink into a tranquil stupor, exactly like one of us in a hot bath, and before long, with a smile on its face, it will unresistingly allow itself to be boiled to death." - Daniel Quinn

This is why we fought against an immediate communist overthrow during the cold war, but have allowed ourselves to slowly accept some of the very same principles outlined by foreign political stance. Somewhere along the lines, the politicians realized this. Problem is, we never did.

Am I American? Yes. Did I vote for Obama? No. Was McCain a better candidate? He was merely the lesser of what I conceived as two evils.

Honestly...Obama was the inevitable choice.

We have been moving towards this for a hundred years. I'm not pissed about it. I'm going to sit back and laugh my happy ass off as I watch the rest of these idiots claw and fight their way to the top of this shitstack that this country has become, all the while waiting for the moment when the ship slips slowly beneath the waves, leaving only a final puff of air as it's last ditch effort in a futile struggle against inevitability.
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Old 11-09-2009, 03:21 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by H3LlIoN View Post
Everyone in this thread is wrong. And everyone in this thread is right.

We need to stop saying that one president is good and one is bad and realize that they are all bad. There is no such thing as a decent politician at any level past local, and even then those can be corrupt too. Perhaps we should take the time to realize that our government has grown far from the ideal that it started as and, as such, needs to be torn down and rebuilt anew. It's no wonder politicians ignore the constitution; they ignore EVERYTHING this nation was built on. And you still think US is greatest country in world? HAH! We just too stupid to unite and expect better than what we have become.

Here is a quick anecdote that describes how we have gotten to this point, and why we have let it get this far:

"If you drop a frog in a pot of boiling water, it will of course frantically try to clamber out. But if you place it gently in a pot of tepid water and turn the heat on low, it will float there quite placidly. As the water gradually heats up, the frog will sink into a tranquil stupor, exactly like one of us in a hot bath, and before long, with a smile on its face, it will unresistingly allow itself to be boiled to death." - Daniel Quinn

This is why we fought against an immediate communist overthrow during the cold war, but have allowed ourselves to slowly accept some of the very same principles outlined by foreign political stance. Somewhere along the lines, the politicians realized this. Problem is, we never did.

Am I American? Yes. Did I vote for Obama? No. Was McCain a better candidate? He was merely the lesser of what I conceived as two evils.

Honestly...Obama was the inevitable choice.

We have been moving towards this for a hundred years. I'm not pissed about it. I'm going to sit back and laugh my happy ass off as I watch the rest of these idiots claw and fight their way to the top of this shitstack that this country has become, all the while waiting for the moment when the ship slips slowly beneath the waves, leaving only a final puff of air as it's last ditch effort in a futile struggle against inevitability.
I agree with most of what you said, with a strong exception of the last part. Nothing is inevitable. We can beat them.
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Old 11-09-2009, 02:57 PM   #16
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Congress dictate national policies. Congress decides on war. Congress dictate foreign policies. Congress makes the treaties. Congress makes the budget and the deficit. Congress makes the laws. The president carries out the will of Congress (the people).
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Old 11-09-2009, 03:13 PM   #17
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Congress (the people).
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Old 11-09-2009, 03:28 PM   #18
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Ah, the idealist. You are so quick to let GM swallow itself (which I agree with, for the record) but you think that you can save an entire country by any means other than self destruction? At the most, you will only be able to prolong the implosion only to find yourself broken, crushed under the weight of modern society. Save your energy; we'll need strong souls to rebuild.

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