The open political discussion thread. Read the first post! - Page 7 - Toyota Yaris Forums

JBougie · 08-09-2009, 11:33 AM

The US federal government was NOT created to control and dictate how the citizens live their lives. There is absolutely no reason for the government to have to 'save us' from ourselves. There are a great deal of government programs we need to get rid of and a whole lot of house cleaning starting with Pelosi (God, I loathe that woman).

However, like has been mentioned - we have term limits, so we can at least vote Obama out in 4 years (which, I guarantee if he only sits 1 term in office we will all be labeled racist) and pray that the 'progressives' get the hell out of congress.

We have been indoctrinated over the years (hello public schools...) that socialism is OK and that no one should have to suffer, everyone needs cable TV, and everyone has a right to free healthcare. However, we need to get back to the basic principals of what makes this country great - you don't have a right to shit except the rights that are given to you as a citizen of the USA and if you want something you need to work for it instead of crying to the county becuase you would rather sit on your ass than get a job, but you still think you deserve that BMW. Until Americans get out of that 'but if my neighbor has it, so should I!' mentality, we are screwed. And the liberals love it because they pray on the weak minded.

And PS - If Canada's health care is so great, why the hell are there bus loads of Canadians coming to the Mayo clinic and other areas of the US for health care becuase they can't get seen back home? No offense to the 'great' program you guys have set up but I have never once in my life thought about going to another country to get seen by a doctor. In fact, if I was in another country and fell ill - there is no other place in the world I would rather be seen by a doctor than the US.

gokartride · 08-09-2009, 12:20 PM

And they wonder why the Republicans are having such a difficult time right now. Saddens me that the party has marginalized itself almost into oblivion.

Bob Dog · 08-09-2009, 01:54 PM

You will want another countries health care system if you ever get locked out of the healthcare system in this one. It can happen very quickly: a bad injury or a prolonged sickness with reduced income is all it takes. Did you know that 6 months after the onset of a serious illness 60% of famlies no longer have health insurance. They either have been priced out, or have had their insurance cancelled by companies that can find a way to cancel their insurance so as not pay the bill. Close to half the foreclosures in our grand nation are healthcare related. The health insurance system here is nothing but a dirty congame that people have been terrorized into acceptting. The reason people come to this country for health care from other countries is because here, if they are wealthy enough, they can buy their way to the front of the line, leaving millions of Americans without healthcare from health care professionals that their tax dollars helped pay to educate and institutions that their tax dollars and donations help pay to support..

TLyttle · 08-09-2009, 10:03 PM

Thanks Bob Dog, that keeps me from explaining why most medical setups seem to be superior to the US mess. I must assume that JBougie is young, and still thinks she is invincible; time will show the folly of her attitude. I pay under $100/mo for health care coverage, and I cannot be cancelled, period. My kids pay about the same, and having a child is not a financial burden because of the medical system. We all know that my stroke would have bankrupted me in the US, but not here. I guess she thinks I should just sign over my property to the closest doctor and croak.!

The "busloads" of Canadians heading for Mayo are a few people with mysterious diseases whose survival depends on the research facility at that clinic. And for every Canadian heading south, there are 20 more Americans heading north to get pharmaceuticals at a reasonable, affordable, price (the bus companies run tours!), but now the US Customs has cracked down on those depriving the drug companies from their exorbitant profits. If she has a bombproof insurance system that will not cancel because of a (all-of-a-sudden) "pre-existing condition", good on her; I suggest she keep dreaming in Republican Technicolor for as long as she remains healthy. I spoke to too many Vets down there whose health care was truly second-class, even compared to the Canadian standards. Is that any way to treat those guys?

I do hope her posture isn't too much affected by keeping her head in the sand...

JBougie · 08-10-2009, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Dog

You will want another countries health care system if you ever get locked out of the healthcare system in this one. It can happen very quickly: a bad injury or a prolonged sickness with reduced income is all it takes. Did you know that 6 months after the onset of a serious illness 60% of famlies no longer have health insurance. They either have been priced out, or have had their insurance cancelled by companies that can find a way to cancel their insurance so as not pay the bill. Close to half the foreclosures in our grand nation are healthcare related. The health insurance system here is nothing but a dirty congame that people have been terrorized into acceptting. The reason people come to this country for health care from other countries is because here, if they are wealthy enough, they can buy their way to the front of the line, leaving millions of Americans without healthcare from health care professionals that their tax dollars helped pay to educate and institutions that their tax dollars and donations help pay to support..

I have a crazy thing called a "savings account" for if and when I don't have insurance coverage. I have a high risk plan - I am 25 and don't go to the doctor every month for stupid things like headaches and hang nails so I don't need to pay for extra coverage. My husband and I pay $80 a month and it is perfect for us, it covers the basic annual check up and preventive things but it's really just there for huge medical emergencies such as car accidents and things of that nature. If I do end up having a sinus infection or something out of the ordinary - I PAY FOR THAT. After I reach a deductible (which is only at $3,000 ... so in the medical world that is a very small drop in the bucket) then the insurance kicks in and covers a percentage of the remaining balance.

Honestly, it is the responsibility of NO ONE but you to ensure that YOU are taken care of. It's not like I'm being crazy here - it's really just common sense. So why everyone has this 'but I can't do this alone so the government needs to give it to me' attitude is beyond me. Maybe I missed the day in class when they made sense of it all, but I really doubt it.

As for getting kicked off our insurance - if you go to a country with nationalized health care, you can be left untreated because THEY don't think you are worth the investment. You can be left untreated because THEY think you're not the 'model' of healthy and so you don't deserve treatment; you are completely and totally giving government the right to gamble with your health, and the treatment of. No thanks - they can't even read a Bill for the sake of our countries future, I sure as hell don't want them telling my doctor how to practice medicine.

And, side note: Has anyone read the health care bill being proposed in the US? All 1,000 +/- pages of it? Because if you haven't, you should. I am on page 329, I would probably have more of it but I work full time, volunteer three nights a week with a juvenile diversion program and go to school full time ... so my extra curricular reading time has been drastically cut.

JBougie · 08-10-2009, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLyttle

Thanks Bob Dog, that keeps me from explaining why most medical setups seem to be superior to the US mess. I must assume that JBougie is young, and still thinks she is invincible; time will show the folly of her attitude. I pay under $100/mo for health care coverage, and I cannot be cancelled, period. My kids pay about the same, and having a child is not a financial burden because of the medical system. We all know that my stroke would have bankrupted me in the US, but not here. I guess she thinks I should just sign over my property to the closest doctor and croak.!

The "busloads" of Canadians heading for Mayo are a few people with mysterious diseases whose survival depends on the research facility at that clinic. And for every Canadian heading south, there are 20 more Americans heading north to get pharmaceuticals at a reasonable, affordable, price (the bus companies run tours!), but now the US Customs has cracked down on those depriving the drug companies from their exorbitant profits. If she has a bombproof insurance system that will not cancel because of a (all-of-a-sudden) "pre-existing condition", good on her; I suggest she keep dreaming in Republican Technicolor for as long as she remains healthy. I spoke to too many Vets down there whose health care was truly second-class, even compared to the Canadian standards. Is that any way to treat those guys?

I do hope her posture isn't too much affected by keeping her head in the sand...

You may not ever be canceled ... but they sure as shit can delay treatment as long as they want to, hopefully you don't die before they decide you're worthy of treatment. You might, but hey - it's cheap, right?

And as for the health care of our vets - you're right, it isn't perfect ... I definitely wouldn't say it's 2nd class. My father is 100% disabled out of the US Navy - he was shot in the back so while we were growing up we had Champ VA insurance (he still has that insurance, of course). It was completely paid for, we went to the dentist regularly and saw a doctor whenever we were sick. My father has had 8 back surgeries and thanks to the VA he can still walk. Now, the waits can be crazy and it might take you a week to get in to see a doctor but that also greatly depends on which VA center you have to go to - the administrative side is a giant pain in the ass to deal with, but so is Blue Cross Blue Shield. Actually - I take that back, BCBS is more of a pain in the ass to deal with. At least at the VA I know whoever answers the phone will speak English

Also, just because I don't drink from the liberal drinking cup doesn't mean my head is in the sand. But you're awesome for thinking that

RedRide · 08-10-2009, 02:00 AM

No one in the US wants another country's health care sys. We need one that is taylor made for us, For the US

All the healthcare reform misinformation has its genesis with the health care insurance/pharmaceutical industry who are making billions of dollars within the present sys.
Since june, their lobbyist have spent over 45 billion dollars to spread all the misinfomation to keep the geese that are laying the golden eggs alive.

The right wing is hanging on every false word they say as they both have the same objective: make Obama and his policies fail with no regaurd for the wellfare of the country.

JBougie · 08-10-2009, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedRide

No one in the US wants another country's health care sys. We need one that is taylor made for us, For the US

All the healthcare reform misinformation has its genesis with the health care insurance/pharmaceutical industry who are making billions of dollars within the present sys.
Since june, their lobbyist have spent over 45 billion dollars to spread all the misinfomation to keep the geese that are laying the golden eggs alive.

The right wing is hanging on every false word they say as they both have the same objective: make Obama and his policies fail with no regaurd for the wellfare of the country.

No one wants Obama to fail - his failures could really screw our country over. This is the best damn place on the planet to live and if you think that we WANT someone to screw that up, you sir are sadly mistaken.

You should read the Bill - seriously. You should read all the little tidbits that are thrown in there. They sure aren't discussing those on the 5:00 news, some of it is pretty crazy.

Bob Dog · 08-10-2009, 07:50 AM

Repeat : 6 months after the onset of a serious illness 60% of families no longer have health insurance. Once again so it sinks in: around 50% home foreclosures are medically related. Private health insurance is a scam just like the banking scam was a scam. It is structured by actuaries to maximize corporate profits not to provide health care. It is entrenched, crooked and set up like a lottery that is meant to never pay off (or payoff as little as possible). The odds are stacked, by corporate accountants and lawyers who spend their entire professional lives seting things up against you and you can not win, and they set it up so you can not even percieve the manner in which you are being ripped off. Who ever put in your mind that corporations must fulfill what they say they will? The laws do not make them . They are so rich that they buy and sell the law. You are under the delusion that what people in positions of authority tell you is the truth and for your benefit. It is not, it a distortion of facts that they skillfully tell by means of professional liars to get you to do and believe whatever it takes to relieve you of as much of your money as possible. And if you think that savings account is going to cover you I've got some news for you, they'll burn through that about as fast as a crackhead smokes a rock. America's health care system is now rated 37 th in the industrialised world. 37 TH. It does not serve the long term needs of most people. Just because you have never been locked out, or told what you were lead to believe was covered is a preexisting condition and is not does not mean it is not going to happen. You are a prime time sucker and what you do drink is a big glass of bull's smilk. Everyday: for breakfast, for lunch and for dinner.

TLyttle · 08-10-2009, 11:33 AM

Please, JBougie, don't believe all the crap you read (or hear) about the Canadian system! Not only can I not be cancelled, but I get top of the line treatment in a timely manner, regardless of my age, previous illnesses, OR MY BANK BALANCE! Why is that so hard for you to understand? And we ALL are treated that way, regardless of the fact that our system is 30% cheaper per capita than the US system. Why should you have to save for something that should be your right? Your savings should be for a house, for your future, not to give over to a medical problem and still be short!

Pay attention to Bob Dog, he is closer to the facts than I am.

As far as the vets are concerned, why should one VA hospital be less effective than another? One woman had to re-use some of the equipment over time or be charged for it. Your dad may be getting good treatment (I question the need for 8 surgeries...), but is that the rule or the exception?

As time goes by, your experiences will give you perspective, something you seem to be lacking. Travel more; that too is a better use for your savings, and will be a better education than what you are getting now...

Malaya1221 · 08-10-2009, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBougie

However, like has been mentioned - we have term limits, so we can at least vote Obama out in 4 years (which, I guarantee if he only sits 1 term in office we will all be labeled racist).....

we're all racist...the only difference is, i'm just a recovering one!

having "black" friend/s is not a defense for this argument!

kac · 08-10-2009, 11:03 PM

Just got done removing rear seat from yaris.... pretty tired now, but gotta make a run to the video store...

TLyttle · 08-11-2009, 11:53 AM

Just heard a book review that should be of interest to JBougie: "Empire of Illusion" by Chris Hedges; I can hardly wait to find a copy. If you want a preview, Google "The Current", and look up the title. Worth a try, but I think J's mind is already made up...

ChinoCharles · 08-11-2009, 03:13 PM

Easy to argue against giving tens of millions of uninsured Americans access to cheaper health care when you're on Medicare, isn't it, old cranky people? Go home. Matlock is on in 10 minutes.

Tea Party whackos don't want reform. At all. Well, I'm sorry, let me rephrase... THEY don't know what they want. They listen to the guy in the corner. With the suit. And the fat wallet. He knows best, and he bought lunch.

Most of these bumbling morons don't have the IQ required to understand the issues at hand. You can tell when they argue. Intelligent people can convey a point without spitting and waving fingers. That is the difference between civil discourse and lunacy. That guy that got in Arlen Specter's face today could barely complete a sentence. He sounded like he had a mouthful of bouncy balls. Elmer Fudd with a brochure of talking points. Point is it isn't about the issues. They just don't like the black guy telling them what is best, even if he is the smartest one in the room. If Obama was old, white and southern, the right would be all over it.

I hope all of these people get cancer and get dropped from their coverage.

My family (like a lot of well-educated, well-to-do democratic families with strong blue-collar roots) are talking about leaving the country that the right is now busy ruining. I hear Canada is lovely. If this shit persists, I won't subject my children to a society where morons like this walk the streets, apparently in droves. Who knew?

With every passing day, I come closer to being ashamed of my country. I wish Dems would tell Republicans to climb a tree and get a good view while we pass this bill along party lines. I couldn't care less what a Republican has to say right now. They gave us Bush AND Palin! Every side has morons (Pelosi) but theirs are BAAAAAAAD.

OK, I feel better now. Back to Yarii!

ChinoCharles · 08-11-2009, 03:49 PM

One more thing... a friend brought it to my attention. I'm talking about the far right. Shoot, the far left pisses me off too. The ones in the middle are all OK by me, and for the record I don't consider myself to be a radical liberal.

TLyttle · 08-11-2009, 11:36 PM

Good posts, Charles, very good perspective...

Cranky and old usually has to do with big errors being committed, combined with decades of experience, and maybe cranky old buggers should be listened to, at least for the perspective.

Kal-El · 08-12-2009, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

Easy to argue against giving tens of millions of uninsured Americans access to cheaper health care when you're on Medicare, isn't it, old cranky people? Go home. Matlock is on in 10 minutes.

Tea Party whackos don't want reform. At all. Well, I'm sorry, let me rephrase... THEY don't know what they want. They listen to the guy in the corner. With the suit. And the fat wallet. He knows best, and he bought lunch.

Most of these bumbling morons don't have the IQ required to understand the issues at hand. You can tell when they argue. Intelligent people can convey a point without spitting and waving fingers. That is the difference between civil discourse and lunacy. That guy that got in Arlen Specter's face today could barely complete a sentence. He sounded like he had a mouthful of bouncy balls. Elmer Fudd with a brochure of talking points. Point is it isn't about the issues. They just don't like the black guy telling them what is best, even if he is the smartest one in the room. If Obama was old, white and southern, the right would be all over it.

I hope all of these people get cancer and get dropped from their coverage.

My family (like a lot of well-educated, well-to-do democratic families with strong blue-collar roots) are talking about leaving the country that the right is now busy ruining. I hear Canada is lovely. If this shit persists, I won't subject my children to a society where morons like this walk the streets, apparently in droves. Who knew?

With every passing day, I come closer to being ashamed of my country. I wish Dems would tell Republicans to climb a tree and get a good view while we pass this bill along party lines. I couldn't care less what a Republican has to say right now. They gave us Bush AND Palin! Every side has morons (Pelosi) but theirs are BAAAAAAAD.

OK, I feel better now. Back to Yarii!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

One more thing... a friend brought it to my attention. I'm talking about the far right. Shoot, the far left pisses me off too. The ones in the middle are all OK by me, and for the record I don't consider myself to be a radical liberal.

Wow, I don't know where to start. First off, you are a radical liberal based on the first post.

Second, you clearly haven't read the bill. Neither has anyone else in this country who supports it.

I'm tired of all the liberals so entranced by Obama's repetitive talking points
that give no information and details on the plan while blindly following the "change" because it must be better because he says so. He says the same things everyday. "You can keep your plan"...blah, blah, blah.

Obama is either lying with a bold face or hasn't read the bill himself. In fact, it's both.

READ THE BILL FOLKS!!!

There are so many things in there that you wouldn't believe could be implemented in America.

The bill clearly states that...

- rationing care for the elderly WILL take place (your parents and grandparents). They will receive end of life counseling instead of life saving treatment deemed too expensive by a bureaucrat.

- you WILL lose you private health plan and be forced onto the government plan as soon as you fall off you current plan for any reason (change job, employer changes, ect.).

- Private companies WILL die off as they are forced to compete with a system that doesn't need to profit and can go into infinite debt.

- Specialists will become very difficult to find and see as government will force an increase on primary/general care to save money. General practitioners often miss and misdiagnose that specialists find.

- Doctors and other medical workers will begin to leave or not enter health care because of lesser compensation and increased bureaucracy.

- Your taxes WILL go up to pay for the 10's of millions added to the system (even for the coverage of 10 million illegal aliens). There's not enough evil wealthy people in the world to pay for it all which the bill says it will raise taxes significantly. These include small business owners which will have to lay off millions of workers as a result. No problem.
It's actually poor people who employ everyone anyway.

I could go on and on but I need sleep.

Liberals don't think. All they see is "hope and change" and history being made with a black man in office. Therefore we must support him and his policies blindly. Anyone who criticizes him is racist. It's a good thing Bush wasn't criticized because imagine all the racists!

God help us.

TLyttle · 08-12-2009, 11:40 PM

Yeah, those damn Liberals, clearly they don't think. I mean, why would any form of compassion be part of the system? And those illegals, why are they there, taking jobs that legals simply will not do? How inconsiderate of them!

And imagine the taxes going up! Why should the US pay near World price for fuel if it is in taxes going to health care? Or cigarettes? Or beer?? Oh, the horror! Fact is, Canadians go into the US to buy these commodities to avoid the taxes charged by the Canadian government, and therefore damage their own health care system and worse, their own health. Americans don't seem to mind paying taxes to run wars, but rebel at the thought that taxes would pay for equitable health care; I guess that makes sense, just not to me is all.

And I really don't see where race has anything to do with it, but I guess that is a Liberal outlook, sorry...

08-09-2009, 01:54 PM	#111
Bob Dog DARK PHASE OF THE MOON Drives: 07 liftback Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: the Boondocks, NC Posts: 993	You will want another countries health care system if you ever get locked out of the healthcare system in this one. It can happen very quickly: a bad injury or a prolonged sickness with reduced income is all it takes. Did you know that 6 months after the onset of a serious illness 60% of famlies no longer have health insurance. They either have been priced out, or have had their insurance cancelled by companies that can find a way to cancel their insurance so as not pay the bill. Close to half the foreclosures in our grand nation are healthcare related. The health insurance system here is nothing but a dirty congame that people have been terrorized into acceptting. The reason people come to this country for health care from other countries is because here, if they are wealthy enough, they can buy their way to the front of the line, leaving millions of Americans without healthcare from health care professionals that their tax dollars helped pay to educate and institutions that their tax dollars and donations help pay to support.. Last edited by Bob Dog; 08-09-2009 at 11:16 PM.

08-10-2009, 07:50 AM	#117
Bob Dog DARK PHASE OF THE MOON Drives: 07 liftback Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: the Boondocks, NC Posts: 993	Repeat : 6 months after the onset of a serious illness 60% of families no longer have health insurance. Once again so it sinks in: around 50% home foreclosures are medically related. Private health insurance is a scam just like the banking scam was a scam. It is structured by actuaries to maximize corporate profits not to provide health care. It is entrenched, crooked and set up like a lottery that is meant to never pay off (or payoff as little as possible). The odds are stacked, by corporate accountants and lawyers who spend their entire professional lives seting things up against you and you can not win, and they set it up so you can not even percieve the manner in which you are being ripped off. Who ever put in your mind that corporations must fulfill what they say they will? The laws do not make them . They are so rich that they buy and sell the law. You are under the delusion that what people in positions of authority tell you is the truth and for your benefit. It is not, it a distortion of facts that they skillfully tell by means of professional liars to get you to do and believe whatever it takes to relieve you of as much of your money as possible. And if you think that savings account is going to cover you I've got some news for you, they'll burn through that about as fast as a crackhead smokes a rock. America's health care system is now rated 37 th in the industrialised world. 37 TH. It does not serve the long term needs of most people. Just because you have never been locked out, or told what you were lead to believe was covered is a preexisting condition and is not does not mean it is not going to happen. You are a prime time sucker and what you do drink is a big glass of bull's smilk. Everyday: for breakfast, for lunch and for dinner. Last edited by Bob Dog; 08-11-2009 at 09:03 PM.

08-10-2009, 11:03 PM	#120
kac View User's Garage Drives: 2009 Meteorite 3dr Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: West/Central Illinois Posts: 540	Just got done removing rear seat from yaris.... pretty tired now, but gotta make a run to the video store... __________________ Touchscreen DVD Navigation - 10" Bazooka Subwoofer - Kenwood Speakers - Toyota Premium Horn set AFE Pro Dry Air Filter - modified air intake box - 1ZZ-FE Throttle Body - Ultra Racing Rear Sway Bar & Front Strut Bar NST in cabin & engine bay SSK's - TWM shifter base bushings & cable bushings - Megan Racing C-Pillar Brace

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08-09-2009, 11:33 AM	#109
JBougie Banned View User's Garage Drives: 2010 Yaris LB (Prev: 07 Sedan) Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Beech Bluff, TN Posts: 1,266	The US federal government was NOT created to control and dictate how the citizens live their lives. There is absolutely no reason for the government to have to 'save us' from ourselves. There are a great deal of government programs we need to get rid of and a whole lot of house cleaning starting with Pelosi (God, I loathe that woman). However, like has been mentioned - we have term limits, so we can at least vote Obama out in 4 years (which, I guarantee if he only sits 1 term in office we will all be labeled racist) and pray that the 'progressives' get the hell out of congress. We have been indoctrinated over the years (hello public schools...) that socialism is OK and that no one should have to suffer, everyone needs cable TV, and everyone has a right to free healthcare. However, we need to get back to the basic principals of what makes this country great - you don't have a right to shit except the rights that are given to you as a citizen of the USA and if you want something you need to work for it instead of crying to the county becuase you would rather sit on your ass than get a job, but you still think you deserve that BMW. Until Americans get out of that 'but if my neighbor has it, so should I!' mentality, we are screwed. And the liberals love it because they pray on the weak minded. And PS - If Canada's health care is so great, why the hell are there bus loads of Canadians coming to the Mayo clinic and other areas of the US for health care becuase they can't get seen back home? No offense to the 'great' program you guys have set up but I have never once in my life thought about going to another country to get seen by a doctor. In fact, if I was in another country and fell ill - there is no other place in the world I would rather be seen by a doctor than the US.

08-09-2009, 12:20 PM	#110
gokartride Drives: 2009 Yaris 3-Door Liftback Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 213	And they wonder why the Republicans are having such a difficult time right now. Saddens me that the party has marginalized itself almost into oblivion.

08-09-2009, 10:03 PM	#112
TLyttle Drives: 07 Yaris sedan Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Keremeos BC Posts: 986	Thanks Bob Dog, that keeps me from explaining why most medical setups seem to be superior to the US mess. I must assume that JBougie is young, and still thinks she is invincible; time will show the folly of her attitude. I pay under $100/mo for health care coverage, and I cannot be cancelled, period. My kids pay about the same, and having a child is not a financial burden because of the medical system. We all know that my stroke would have bankrupted me in the US, but not here. I guess she thinks I should just sign over my property to the closest doctor and croak.! The "busloads" of Canadians heading for Mayo are a few people with mysterious diseases whose survival depends on the research facility at that clinic. And for every Canadian heading south, there are 20 more Americans heading north to get pharmaceuticals at a reasonable, affordable, price (the bus companies run tours!), but now the US Customs has cracked down on those depriving the drug companies from their exorbitant profits. If she has a bombproof insurance system that will not cancel because of a (all-of-a-sudden) "pre-existing condition", good on her; I suggest she keep dreaming in Republican Technicolor for as long as she remains healthy. I spoke to too many Vets down there whose health care was truly second-class, even compared to the Canadian standards. Is that any way to treat those guys? I do hope her posture isn't too much affected by keeping her head in the sand...

08-10-2009, 02:00 AM	#115
RedRide Drives: '09 Yaris carmine red 2d HB Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Middletown, NY Posts: 1,501	No one in the US wants another country's health care sys. We need one that is taylor made for us, For the US All the healthcare reform misinformation has its genesis with the health care insurance/pharmaceutical industry who are making billions of dollars within the present sys. Since june, their lobbyist have spent over 45 billion dollars to spread all the misinfomation to keep the geese that are laying the golden eggs alive. The right wing is hanging on every false word they say as they both have the same objective: make Obama and his policies fail with no regaurd for the wellfare of the country.

08-10-2009, 11:33 AM	#118
TLyttle Drives: 07 Yaris sedan Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Keremeos BC Posts: 986	Please, JBougie, don't believe all the crap you read (or hear) about the Canadian system! Not only can I not be cancelled, but I get top of the line treatment in a timely manner, regardless of my age, previous illnesses, OR MY BANK BALANCE! Why is that so hard for you to understand? And we ALL are treated that way, regardless of the fact that our system is 30% cheaper per capita than the US system. Why should you have to save for something that should be your right? Your savings should be for a house, for your future, not to give over to a medical problem and still be short! Pay attention to Bob Dog, he is closer to the facts than I am. As far as the vets are concerned, why should one VA hospital be less effective than another? One woman had to re-use some of the equipment over time or be charged for it. Your dad may be getting good treatment (I question the need for 8 surgeries...), but is that the rule or the exception? As time goes by, your experiences will give you perspective, something you seem to be lacking. Travel more; that too is a better use for your savings, and will be a better education than what you are getting now...

08-11-2009, 11:53 AM	#121
TLyttle Drives: 07 Yaris sedan Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Keremeos BC Posts: 986	Just heard a book review that should be of interest to JBougie: "Empire of Illusion" by Chris Hedges; I can hardly wait to find a copy. If you want a preview, Google "The Current", and look up the title. Worth a try, but I think J's mind is already made up...

08-11-2009, 03:13 PM	#122
ChinoCharles Banned Drives: LB Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: OH Posts: 7,787	Easy to argue against giving tens of millions of uninsured Americans access to cheaper health care when you're on Medicare, isn't it, old cranky people? Go home. Matlock is on in 10 minutes. Tea Party whackos don't want reform. At all. Well, I'm sorry, let me rephrase... THEY don't know what they want. They listen to the guy in the corner. With the suit. And the fat wallet. He knows best, and he bought lunch. Most of these bumbling morons don't have the IQ required to understand the issues at hand. You can tell when they argue. Intelligent people can convey a point without spitting and waving fingers. That is the difference between civil discourse and lunacy. That guy that got in Arlen Specter's face today could barely complete a sentence. He sounded like he had a mouthful of bouncy balls. Elmer Fudd with a brochure of talking points. Point is it isn't about the issues. They just don't like the black guy telling them what is best, even if he is the smartest one in the room. If Obama was old, white and southern, the right would be all over it. I hope all of these people get cancer and get dropped from their coverage. My family (like a lot of well-educated, well-to-do democratic families with strong blue-collar roots) are talking about leaving the country that the right is now busy ruining. I hear Canada is lovely. If this shit persists, I won't subject my children to a society where morons like this walk the streets, apparently in droves. Who knew? With every passing day, I come closer to being ashamed of my country. I wish Dems would tell Republicans to climb a tree and get a good view while we pass this bill along party lines. I couldn't care less what a Republican has to say right now. They gave us Bush AND Palin! Every side has morons (Pelosi) but theirs are BAAAAAAAD. OK, I feel better now. Back to Yarii!

08-11-2009, 03:49 PM	#123
ChinoCharles Banned Drives: LB Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: OH Posts: 7,787	One more thing... a friend brought it to my attention. I'm talking about the far right. Shoot, the far left pisses me off too. The ones in the middle are all OK by me, and for the record I don't consider myself to be a radical liberal.

08-11-2009, 11:36 PM	#124
TLyttle Drives: 07 Yaris sedan Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Keremeos BC Posts: 986	Good posts, Charles, very good perspective... Cranky and old usually has to do with big errors being committed, combined with decades of experience, and maybe cranky old buggers should be listened to, at least for the perspective.

08-12-2009, 11:40 PM	#126
TLyttle Drives: 07 Yaris sedan Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Keremeos BC Posts: 986	Yeah, those damn Liberals, clearly they don't think. I mean, why would any form of compassion be part of the system? And those illegals, why are they there, taking jobs that legals simply will not do? How inconsiderate of them! And imagine the taxes going up! Why should the US pay near World price for fuel if it is in taxes going to health care? Or cigarettes? Or beer?? Oh, the horror! Fact is, Canadians go into the US to buy these commodities to avoid the taxes charged by the Canadian government, and therefore damage their own health care system and worse, their own health. Americans don't seem to mind paying taxes to run wars, but rebel at the thought that taxes would pay for equitable health care; I guess that makes sense, just not to me is all. And I really don't see where race has anything to do with it, but I guess that is a Liberal outlook, sorry...