gude-head-1NZ-FE

[xbgod]

Your thoughts are some what like mine on this. Here is what were doing.

first tune without the vvti on


Second tune with vvti on

third with no vvti and lock the cam angle

of the three we will see which is best.

Gotta see how the Gude cams and new throttle body respond to the motor.

XBG

[Parmas]

Originally Posted by xbgod

Your thoughts are some what like mine on this. Here is what were doing.

1 - first tune without the vvti on

2 - Second tune with vvti on

3 - third with no vvti and lock the cam angle

of the three we will see which is best.

Gotta see how the Gude cams and new throttle body respond to the motor.

XBG

1 - You mean with the Cam timing connector disconnected - which would be fully retarded.

2 - Are you sure your management can fully control VVTi? Do you have pics of the management software part?

3 - Do you mean locking temporarly the angle? By the use of the engine management or by locking it directly from the head?

[H3LlIoN]

Originally Posted by Parmas

I chose both and for me the VVti is essentially needed on street where I am not always on the 6k rpm range.

Haha I hit redline pretty much every time I drive the yaris.

[rob323]

I just wish the F1 technology that Honda had years ago, with solenoid actuated valves would hurry up and become main stream. No cam shafts, just fully adjustable valve timing and lift, perfectly optimised for all loads and all rpms.

[xbgod]

Here is how Microtech works. It will NOT fully control VVTI. You can have it turn on the VVTI at your desired rpm range which makes it more like VVT. At this point you can either just let it turn it on or use the stock ecu to just control the VVTI. However the stock ecu likes to retard timming because it gets confused when running the Microtech at the same time. So I orginally would just activate the VVTI at around 3400 rpm.

Now with this race cam set-up it will be different. depending on how wild of a cam this turns out to be will have a factor on if the VVTI will even operate properly anyways. I'm hoping to just unplug the vvti altogether and just have a old school style race set-up and let the cams do the work.

I will however check the tune with thw VVTI on and see what we get. Worse case we fix the cam angle via the head.

I belive the first idea will work good by doing away with the vvti because of my cam designe. Webb cam does alot of VVTI and VTEC delete kits for racing applications which in there eyes have proven to be more effective for all out racing power.

We will soon find out which is best for me. If I cant find a totally good solution for my set-up then I will be off to purchase Motec and be done with it. For me it will be the only logical solution to what I want to do. I know there expensive but in my eyes and what Chris Rado runs there is no substitute. But I hope for what I want that my first choice works.

XBG

[Parmas]

I am not into Microtech but I happen to have experienced similar engine management previousely that only is capable to activate a valve and not constantly vary angles. I am about sure to fully control the VVTi you need to change management.

In my opinion with your cam setup you will surely have nice power and torque on the upper curves ( probably above 6K depending how wild it is). But this would cost you power and torque performance at low and medium rpms. Also you should know that with these cams, there is a possiblity of a rough with rich mixture which result into an unsteady idle especially if you lock cam angle.

[H3LlIoN]

Originally Posted by Parmas

Also you should know that with these cams, there is a possiblity of a rough with rich mixture which result into an unsteady idle.

I'm pretty sure "rough@idle" is synonymous with aftermarket cams, ESPECIALLY with the friggin' profile Aras is running. He's gonna need SRB's to get that thing going!



BTW...got these today.

[Blown_xa]

I can tell you what messing with the vvti will do:

left on the car will lose power when boost hits, it may even fall on its face at high rpm. Spool up and bottem rpm range power will be good.
left off you will make as much power as your setup can make (assuming mbt) , but you will lack slight torque under normal driving conditions. In reality thats not gonna matter because you will be able to light up 1st thru 3rd easy regardless.
When we tune vvti via Haltec on our tC or my car, we find it so far to be time better spent elsewhere .
My advice for xbgod, focus on the basics at hand. 30psi tune, dont start tuning with a 8psi wastegate spring (boost controller maxed wont get u to goal). stuff like that. maybe have ur microtec control silinoid to get better spool and boost curve. greddy controller has gain control but still not as nice inputing duty cycle per rpm. that will make more difference than vvti.

[cali yaris]

I use the M400 on my tC, it's an awesome management unit.

[ilikerice]

all this talk about vvti is making me think that its a P.O.S. for performance and only good for gas savings (of course thats what the yaris is all about)... having doubts about the upgrades i decided to go with now and thinking i should stop with the yaris and see what else is out there to start a new project on... someone give me a reason to throw a kaaz lsd and supercharger/turbo on this car... cuz this talk about tuning the vvti is really throwing me back.. vtec on the crx is so much more simple.

[H3LlIoN]

ignore this talk. what these two are talking about only pertains to about 4 users here. you should pay it no heed.


and EVERY 17 year old kid in the world has a diced out civic...how many people u know with hopped up yarii? makes a much better sleeper, and the "wtf??!?!?" looks are priceless.

[xbgod]

H3lion is right there are a select few of us that are way on the extreme side of the house with our projects. And some of the stuff we discuss pertains primarily to us, so unless you plan on going way into the deep end like we have just use some of this information as food for thought.

Our vehicles are not daily drivers and we use them as race primarily. Any questions you may have related to performance please ask and one of us will help you with your situation and demands you have for your car.

XBG

[Focus_Sh1ft]

Originally Posted by xbgod

H3lion is right there are a select few of us that are way on the extreme side of the house with our projects. And some of the stuff we discuss pertains primarily to us, so unless you plan on going way into the deep end like we have just use some of this information as food for thought.

Our vehicles are not daily drivers and we use them as race primarily. Any questions you may have related to performance please ask and one of us will help you with your situation and demands you have for your car.

XBG

Agreed. ilikerice, there's no need to be concerned with cams/vvti unless you're going for a big build. I can tell you firsthand though a turbocharged yaris for daily driving is sex

Originally Posted by H3LlIoN

and EVERY 17 year old kid in the world has a diced out civic...how many people u know with hopped up yarii? makes a much better sleeper, and the "wtf??!?!?" looks are priceless.

Agreed even more. Anyone who mods cars/ understands the process has given me great respect. Toyota techs have been stupified after looking at my car.

[cali yaris]

cuz this talk about tuning the vvti is really throwing me back.. vtec on the crx is so much more simple.

go Honda!

[xnamerxx]

Originally Posted by ilikerice

all this talk about vvti is making me think that its a P.O.S. for performance and only good for gas savings (of course thats what the yaris is all about)... having doubts about the upgrades i decided to go with now and thinking i should stop with the yaris and see what else is out there to start a new project on... someone give me a reason to throw a kaaz lsd and supercharger/turbo on this car... cuz this talk about tuning the vvti is really throwing me back.. vtec on the crx is so much more simple.

VVT-I is amazing for what it was designed for. You get all the benefits of low rpm torque with high rpm power, before the days of variable valve timing you had to choose one or the other.

The vvti in this car is vary similar to the vtec-i the k series motors from honda have. The problem with vvti in this car is the cam profiles are tuned for a naturally aspirated motor and at higher rpm the vvti is programmed to act has a bigger na cam and increase the lobe overlap for scavenging the exhaust to increase power in the higher rpm band, but doing so would cause you to lose boost in the higher rpm range and kill the power a bit. Forced induction cars dont like to have overlap as it decreases volumetric efficiency because its basically a vacuum leak within the cylinder itself which will drop down the boost #.

The vtec in a crx is a very simple system its advances and retards the intake cam iirc which can provide some benefit but is more effective for fuel economy.

If you want to boost the yaris go ahead and do so the vvti wont have as large of an effect as it will on their cars. Remember when there talking about making 30 psi they engines are making 3-4x times more power then yours and vvti "may" cause a 3-10% drop in power/torque when boosted and making 150-180 hp wont matter so much because it wont be noticed but when your engine is making 300-400 and only has a smaller band of power that hit in power is much more noticable. Dont listen to their talk about vvti as it doesnt pertain to you.
Its like listening to engine tech from a f1 car while its correct it doesn't pertain to your application since you aren't going to be running as much power

[xbgod]

Blownxa

Working on some tunning tips like we discussed. Rolo my tunner at CFT is familliar with your situation and is doing some of the exact same things for tunning my car. I sent you a PM, give me a ring got something to discuss with you.

Aras

[advocate]

Originally Posted by H3LlIoN

and the "wtf??!?!?" looks are priceless.

QFT

[Bluevitz-rs]

I never thought about unplugging my VVTi solenoid when I was boosted to see if it would have fixed my high RPM power problem. It was such a simple thing I overlooked. As the RPMs raised, the overlap got bigger and my boosted power dropped off. Makes me think if I was simply loosing fuel and some boost out the exhaust.

Because I know for a fact that running the car without the VVTi plugged in, in NA form makes for a more linear power delivery, and a lot more consistent.