Car back from body shop....Dust in the paint?

[Hamster]

Hello everyone!

I need a little help here, especially opinions from experts (or at least, people who are really knowledgeable). I took my Yaris in to a body shop last month to get some panels resprayed. The car had been keyed by my oh-so-lovely former neighbors last year, so I finally decided to get it fixed. When I got the Yaris back from the body shop, well, let's just say it was incomplete. There were dozens of nibs on the lower portions of the panels. It was as if the person doing the wet-sanding was too lazy to bend down and do the lower parts of the car. Anyway, the owner fixed it, and the refinished panels are completely smooth to the touch. However, there is still visible dust particles under the clearcoat. The owner said that it's impossible for a respray to be entirely dust-free.

My question is, is this true? Is it true that dust under the clearcoat is inevitable? If it's unavoidable, how many particles per panel is acceptable? Or is the owner just BS'ing me because he doesn't want to re-do the work? I didn't go out and get a count, but it's got to be at the very least between two to four dozen or so bits of dirt/dust in each panel. If dust under the clearcoat is not acceptable under any circumstances, then this is a very frustrating situation. I took it to a bodyshop that's probably the most expensive in the state that I live in. It is a family-owned facility that mainly works on high-end European cars. Mainly BMW, but also Mercedes, Porsche, Ferrari, etc., but they'll work on any car. They are supposed to be the best body shop in the state, but I'm trying to figure out if they screwed me over with sub-par work, or if it's just a matter of me not knowing what to expect. I would like to note that the other aspects of the work is excellent....no swirl marks, no sanding marks or runs, perfect color match, perfect orange peel match, and so forth. However, I think that the amount of dust is excessive, but I'm no expert.

If you guys think that the imperfections as I'm describing is unacceptable, how do you suggest I handle it? If there should be no dust whatsover, then I'm going to want them to re-do it, so I want to know how to handle it tactfully.

[roneezy360]

Pictures Please

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

Originally Posted by roneezy360

Pictures Please

x10000

[Hamster]

Cali Yaris, now that the car was re-wetsanded, I can now separate out what were nibs above the clearcoat, and which particles sat between the base and the clearcoat. I'd say one visible particle per square foot is average in terms of debris that sits under the clearcoat. Some panels have less debris than others. By the way, I keep calling this stuff dust, but I'm not sure what it really is. It looks more like little brown chunks of dirt.

The thing is, I can't tell who's right, or who's full of it. I spoke with an adjuster from my insurance company on the phone, and she said that even one visible particle would be unacceptable under their standards. She said that if there was any visible debris after a respray, and I had used one of their in-network shops, she would make the shop re-do it. Yet the owner of the body shop insists that everyone I spoke with is wrong, and that the acceptable standard is approximately one visible particle per square foot. So I am really confused, which is why I posted this thread in the first place. To see if there are any paint and body experts out there.

WeeYari and Rockland Toyota, I'm sorry, my digital camera definitely doesn't have the macro feature. However, I plan on getting a new digital camera real soon. So, when this thread dies down, I plan on reviving it. I understand that it's really hard for you guys to get an idea of what I'm talking about without pictures. I don't blame you. Too bad nobody here lives in Columbus, because I'd be more than happy to show it to an expert in person.

KCALB SIRAY, by panel, I mean the driver's side front door, driver's side back door, driver's side rear quarter panel, and the liftgate were keyed. The scratches were indeed at waist level, and were down to the white primer. And yes, I did get the back bumper refinished. I also got some door dings pulled out, and a couple other things done. I left this out so as not to complicate this thread. I wanted to focus on the insurance work done, since that was the bulk of it. Really, I spent around $3,000 at this place, a mix of out of pocket expenses and insurance money. Everything turned out great except for the debris under the clearcoat. I'm trying to figure out if I should be upset or not. If some dust or debris under the clearcoat is to be absolutely expected, then I really shouldn't be complaining.

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

Originally Posted by Hamster

WeeYari and Rockland Toyota, I'm sorry, my digital camera definitely doesn't have the macro feature. However, I plan on getting a new digital camera real soon. So, when this thread dies down, I plan on reviving it. I understand that it's really hard for you guys to get an idea of what I'm talking about without pictures. I don't blame you. Too bad nobody here lives in Columbus, because I'd be more than happy to show it to an expert in person.
.

its NOT a problem as i was busting balls and getting post counts. in my business i see paint defects a few times a month

Besides i love when cali chimes in with his 2 cents.....

[Hamster]

Originally Posted by ROCKLAND TOYOTA

its NOT a problem as i was busting balls and getting post counts. in my business i see paint defects a few times a month

Besides i love when cali chimes in with his 2 cents.....

Wait, so is some trash and other such defects in the paint to be expected, even at the best body shops? If so, how much is acceptable, and is the one-visible-piece-per-square-foot-thing typical? This is really important for me to know. As I said, I'm not an expert. I really need to know if this body shop did me wrong or not. I would hate to harbor bad feelings towards them if this is truly the best anyone can do. And if I got this fixed someplace else, I would like to know if it would wind up looking exactly the same, or worse, anyway. I'd also like to know if I should continue to use this body shop, since it's always good to have a good one on hand in case of an accident, or even just to get future door dings fixed. As mentioned before, I'm totally clueless about what defects in a new paint job is acceptable. All I know is that I can see them.

Rockland Toyota, since you know what to look for, can you describe the typical, acceptable paint defects on refinished cars that have come through your dealership? Feel free to use technical words. If I don't understand, I'll just ask you for a definition. Do such defects affect the value of the car at all?

[Hamster]

Sorry, not possible in this case....my camera doesn't have enough zoom. The dust is something you can only see up close. I'm hoping someone familiar with painting/body work can make a determination based on my description. I know that dust getting on the paint during a respray is a common problem. I just don't know what amount of debris, if any, is acceptable in a new clearcoat.

[marcus]

ur digicam should have macro shot option try that.

[Hamster]

Nope, once again, not possible. I've got a really simple, old digital camera. And by old, I mean I bought it seven or eight years ago. It doesn't have newfangled technology like macro shot options. Dang, I really need to get a new camera.

Anyway, I called the body shop today, and the owner told me that one (visible) dust particle per square foot is allowable. For anyone here familiar with auto paint, is this true? EDIT: In my original description, I wrote that there were 2-4 dozen particles per panel, but I may have exaggerated that. That was the case before the care was re-wet sanded, so there's not as much as before. I don't know, I have to run out and take a careful count. I'm trying to determine if it's true that one visible dust particle per square foot is allowed. Since there are a number of people on this forum knowledgeable about paint, and there are quite a few members who have been in accidents and got their cars at least partially re-painted, I'd like to know if it's unrealistic to expect an 100 percent flawless refinishing job.

[WeeYari]

Originally Posted by Hamster

I've got a really simple, old digital camera. And by old, I mean I bought it seven or eight years ago. It doesn't have newfangled technology like macro shot options.

You really need to get pics up in this thread if you're starting to name the shop in a public attack.

Macro is not 'newgangled technology' as you put it. I have cameras way older than yours with macro exposure. Double check your camera for an exposure setting either on a dial or button represented by a flower. That is macro.

[A-Dingo-Ate-My-Baby]

Originally Posted by WeeYari

You really need to get pics up in this thread if you're starting to name the shop in a public attack.

Macro is not 'newgangled technology' as you put it. I have cameras way older than yours with macro exposure. Double check your camera for an exposure setting either on a dial or button represented by a flower. That is macro.

If you cannot get into MACRO mode, but you has the flower button....
if yer camera has ProgramAE mode, usually go to ProgramAE mode first, then macro button will work


I agree...now you are naming a shop, show us the paint job as it sits, and show us the flaws

[cali yaris]

The owner said that it's impossible for a respray to be entirely dust-free.

Wrong. I don't accept ANY dust when I get cars painted. You're paying for a dust-free, enclosed "clean room" in part..

Did you look at other cars they have painted? Same or different? I would never drop a car off at a bodyshop without looking at several examples of their work.

I'd like to know if it's unrealistic to expect an 100 percent flawless refinishing job.

It's realistic, for a price. You did not say how much you paid for this paint job. Mind sharing?

[Buddy Fan]

It is impossible to have a perfect, dust-free paint job. There are always contaminants in any paint job. There is, however, a way to have a dust-free paint job. There is a small dremel-like tool that most auto body shops have that they use to spot out dust, dirt and runs in the paint finish. Without pictures, it's impossible to tell how bad it is, but I would take it back and see what can be done. Just remember, if you got the $299 special, they aren't going to help you out one bit!

[A-Dingo-Ate-My-Baby]

Originally Posted by Buddy Fan

It is impossible to have a perfect, dust-free paint job. There are always contaminants in any paint job.

wrong wrong wrong

ever hear of a downdraft paint booth w/filters, and painters who wear breathing suits and aren't slobs ?

[BLOODY_STONE]

Easy .... Get a rubbing compound and some water .... rub the area with.both compound and water , and finally wax the polished area ...
This happens sometimes but the bodyshop is the one who's suppposed to do that b4 delivering ur car not you ....
Good luck

[Hamster]

Thanks for all your help, everyone. Your answers have been great. Looking at my car again, it appears that there is about one piece or less of dust in the paint per square foot. The thing is that the dust I'm talking about sits between the base and the clearcoat. Therefore, you can't use rubbing and compound or wetsanding to get to it, since you'd burn right through the clearcoat. I'm sorry that I can't provide pictures, but the paint job is absolutely perfect except for the specks of dust here and there.

CaliYaris and BuddyFan, if you think the job was the $299 special, you must be kidding me. This place is the most expensive body shop in Ohio, and they don't do cheap jobs. They charge around $500 per panel for paint alone. The cost of getting the four keyed panels refinished was around $2,200. No joke. I was a fool and did not look at other complete paintjobs when I went to get estimates. I just figured that anyone who works on BMW's and Porsches would do a perfect job, since owners of such high-end cars wouldn't settle for less than good work. I did see their paint booth, though, and it is enclosed, and it has an air filtration system attached. In fact, the paint booth was imported from Germany.

Anyway, in the aforementioned phone conversation that I had with the owner, he told me that I paid for a "factory finish", and one dust particle per square foot is to be expected, since cars generally have imperfections in the paint jobs when they come out of the factory. He said that a absolutely, 100 percent, dust-free "showroom finish" completely free of imperfections costs around $1,000 per square foot. He's absolutely refusing to re-do the work, since he says there's nothing wrong with it. He says some imperfections (i.e. dust) is unavoidable. The owner said that he took a very careful look at the car when he re-wet sanded it after I found the nibs, and said that he didn't find anything out of the ordinary. So, it looks like I'm screwed. Since this body shop is outside of the direct repair network of my insurance company, my insurance company said there's nothing they can do.

I hate body shops. Given how expensive this place was and how the paint job isn't the 100percent flawless work that I expected it to be, I'm wishing that I just left my Yaris keyed.

[A-Dingo-Ate-My-Baby]

that guy you went to is nuts...he just hasn't invested in the right equipment.

go to someone who paints properly for a living and has the correct booths and
you can get flawless paint.

[Buddy Fan]

I wasn't implying that you got the Blue Light Special. All I was typing was that your level of expectations is/should be in line with what you paid. You clearly paid more than enough to have high expectations. The body shop guy sounds like a real Delta Bravo. I think it's not at all funny that he mentioned you paid for a "Factory finish" with its imperfections when you clearly paid for a perfect finish. Anyway, good luck with it. Don't let up on him and let everyone you know how disappointed you are with the shop's work.