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04-25-2009, 10:08 AM | #55 | |
Drives: '07 Yaris, '12 GLI Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 100
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2. Do you honestly believe that 1NZFE's internals (i.e. bearing clearances etc) are different for JDM engines and engines bound for export destinations? Thus allowing 0W20 in one and unable to use that oil in another? Furthermore, the two local Toyota dealerships that I go to to get my parts are okay with putting 0W20 in a 1NZFE. I'm fairly certain if it was going to void warranties and cause engines to self-destruct they would not be advising its use it due to liability reasons... 3. API licensing costs money, companies have to pay fees to be able to put the little starburst or whatever else certification symbol on their oil bottles. The actual market for 0W20's as required by engine manufacturers in N.A. is very small. It is likely not worth the money for Amsoil to go through the API certification process for their 0W20. You seem pretty adamant about following that TSB, about the whole 5W20 is okay but 0W20 will obliterate the 1NZFE. Go ahead and use the 5W20 and be happy. I hope you didn't rag on people if they used 5W20 in their 1NZFE's before that TSB or some "approved list" was released... |
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04-25-2009, 10:34 AM | #56 | |||||||
Drives: 2013 Chevy Spark 1LT 5-speed Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,185
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They have the money to do API testing on their cheapest XL series, the whole series, why not their most expensive series? They're a big company that's been around for decades. Quote:
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1997 Lincoln Town Car - SOLD 2008 Scion xD (w/ automatic) - SOLD 2008 Yaris HB - SOLD Last edited by 1stToyota; 04-25-2009 at 12:42 PM. |
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04-25-2009, 01:31 PM | #57 | ||
Drives: '07 Yaris, '12 GLI Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 100
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If one is worried about an oil-related engine failure then by all means follow what is suggested on your OIL cap, in your manual or in a TSB from Toyota.
Oil viscosity recommendations are different according to climate, expected ambient temperature or high-speed driving. Manufacturers may outfit vehicles differently according to climate (oil coolers in warm climates, block heaters in cold climates). I seriously doubt they will change internal engine parts which require different grades of oil on a budget engine like the 1NZFE for different environments, other than possibly ECU programming for emissions related reasons due to local standards... SilverGlow isn't right or wrong for choosing a different SAE grade of oil not listed on that TSB. It's his choice. If one is able to prove that his engine is damaged as a result of the oil's SAE viscosity grade, or lack of API certification and not an OEM parts or design related-failure then we can say his oil selection was "wrong"... with the 1NZFE this likely won't happen unless someone uses an API SA rated oil Yes, local as in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. I guess it's the "Great White North" but with the sunshine today I should be out riding my motorcycles rather than typing at this keyboard, which have *gasp* non-JASO-approved oils in their crankcases Technically that TSB specifically mentions ILSAC GF-4 oils, not API SL/SM nor API starburst certification etc. 5W20, 0W20 etc are not API certifications, they are SAE oil viscosity grades. It does mention following the viscosity grade as outlined in the owner's manual (again no mention of following API certifications in the TSB itself, just ILSAC GF-4). Found this on the BITOG site regarding API certification: API Certification Discussion I'll admit I may be wrong about the certification fees : Quote:
As an aside, why would Amsoil bother certifying an oil when they know that the people purchasing the oil probably don't even care if its API certified. The extended drain interval people are already going against manufacturer recommendations anyways, which is what these higher-end oils are designed for. To meet it seems that the XL series was designed to meet the minimum requirements for most manufacturers warranties, hence they bothered to get it certified. And here is Amsoil's take on why they have not bothered to API certify their oils other than the XL line: Amsoil PDF File Quote:
Internet oil discussions are great |
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04-25-2009, 03:30 PM | #58 | |||||||||||
Drives: 2013 Chevy Spark 1LT 5-speed Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,185
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Japan: 0w-20 (okay) US: 5w-20 and 5w-30 (okay) Quote:
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1997 Lincoln Town Car - SOLD 2008 Scion xD (w/ automatic) - SOLD 2008 Yaris HB - SOLD Last edited by 1stToyota; 04-25-2009 at 04:53 PM. |
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04-26-2009, 11:06 AM | #59 |
Drives: '07 Yaris, '12 GLI Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 100
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Just for kicks, 1stT what oil will you be using once your powertrain is outside of warranty coverage?
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04-27-2009, 02:40 AM | #60 |
Banned
Drives: 2007 Yaris Hatchback Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Southern California
Posts: 189
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Your MPG increase had nothing to do with the oil. There is some other reason. Using a lighter oil means just a 1% to 2% increase in MPG, and if it were more the makers of lighter oil would make the claim, but all they claim is 1% to 2% increase, if any.
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04-27-2009, 08:54 AM | #61 |
Drives: 2013 Chevy Spark 1LT 5-speed Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,185
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I'm good for 7yrs/75k miles, but if Pennzoil Platinum (5w-30) is still working for me I see no reason to change. From what I've seen posted here and elsewhere its UOA results appear to be very good, API certified, ACEA A5/B5 (5w-20 only A1/B1) rating, cheap pricing...
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04-27-2009, 08:26 PM | #62 |
Synthetics can free up HP that would have been used up from trying to churn over reg petrol oil in the crankcase. I've been an Amsoil dealer for several years and have sold thousands of quarts of oils, tubes of grease, assortment of filters and accessories and never had one complaint or major issue.
I run what the manufacturer calls for in all my vehicles. 5W30 for the Durango R/T, G6 GT, and 5W20 for my Taurus and when I get my Yaris and trade in the Taurus I'll use whatever they recommend. I became a dealer with Amsoil for the reputation. They stand behind their product all the way. Even to go as far as to offer to fix or replace an engine if it was found that their oil was the cause of the problem. I've just ordered a case of 0W30 full synthetic to try out in my tow rigs and small engines (I operate a landscape business). If Amsoil lists "Toyota" as a compatible make without singling out any certain engines then you can use it and be covered by their warranty should anything go wrong. I doubt it will. On my Dodge forum there was this huge deal one member started about not having enough zinc in today's oils, especially synthetics. He found out that there was zinc still present in these oils as Royal Purple published a new line of 'racing oil' that contained no zinc and some other metals that helps prolong the life of daily driven vehicles. This led to a lot of problems, from leaks, to engine failure. Royal purple has cleaned up their act and is better marking their products to consumers so they don't have another 'catastrophe'. Also keep in mind that they don't have the same repair/replace engine warranty that Amsoil has. Some are anal about using the proper oil, but it's not entirely necessary unless a warranty specifies so on paper and you keep it for reference should anything happen. If these same people decide to use a summer (10W30) and winter (5W30) grade oil depending on the season, for their vehicles they're just as clueless as anything they read about classification. As a thoughtful person will easily realize that even in Texas, you can safely run a 5W30 or 5W20 grade oil without worry from the oil burning off faster, etc. If Toyota ups their 'special dealer only oil for your engine' to $25/quart would you still buy it? Didn't think so. Again, for fuel economy, use the recommended grade, just run synthetic for the BEST in engine wear characteristics and with any luck, fuel economy may improve and you can drive further when using synthetic oils. |
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04-28-2009, 08:29 AM | #63 |
Drives: 2013 Chevy Spark 1LT 5-speed Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,185
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Yes, some people are anal about using the proper oil that the manufacturer recommends, and some are anal about using what they recommend instead.
My brother drives a Ford and is an Amsoil dealer. He used SS 0w-30, but switched to Valvoline DuraBlend 5w-20 after he asked the service manager at the dealership about non-API certified oil, would it void the warranty. They said it'd get kinda touchy should it come to that, could be a real mess and a hassle getting them to warranty the motor. On the other hand, he was told that there'd be no questions asked if he used the cheapest SM API oil that he bought off of the grocery store shelf, so he chose the no hassle approach. |
04-28-2009, 05:56 PM | #64 |
I can see running regular over the shelf oil if cost is an issue. As an Amsoil dealer myself, I find it better to use the product as I can get it at a discount. Generally, I'll place a large order, mostly items for other people that pick it up locally and I work out the costs so that I get all my products at no charge.
I've always taken my '99 Taurus into Ford dealer for service, however, it was out of warranty when I began using Amsoil products in it. The dealer never said anything, and one of the service advisers has been buying it from me for nearly two years and runs it in his 07 mustang V6. Last I checked, if an engine failure does occur and the oil level was found to be within specification, the dealer won't test the oil unless you give them some suspicion to do so. For anyone interested in more 'oil info' check out this site: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ |
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04-28-2009, 06:15 PM | #65 | |
Drives: 2013 Chevy Spark 1LT 5-speed Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,185
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04-28-2009, 09:44 PM | #66 | |
Drives: street-legal go-kart Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: bowser's castle
Posts: 627
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04-29-2009, 08:17 AM | #67 | |
Drives: 2013 Chevy Spark 1LT 5-speed Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,185
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Yeah that's what I paid ($3.99/qt/3 cases) :) Glad I made the switch. |
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04-29-2009, 08:27 AM | #68 | |
I love momentum.
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04-30-2009, 07:58 PM | #69 |
I Email Toyota on the the proper oil for my 2008 yaris sedan quote from Eugene Des Jardins Toyota customer experience. factory fill petro-based toyota 5w30 Toyota recommends american islac multi grade engine oil. 5w20 is not recommended for your 2008 yaris. Toyota recommends only 5w30 as outlined in manual page 329. end quote. Thats enough for I have always used genuine Toyota 5w30 since new and will continue. Engine have lasted forever on dino oil with proper maintenence. Synthetic is not worth extra cost. and your engine can not stay clean with 10000 mi oil changes..
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04-30-2009, 09:02 PM | #70 |
Drives: '07 Yaris, '12 GLI Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 100
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I'm keeping my fingers away from the keyboard... some oil is better than no oil... okay that's it...
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04-30-2009, 10:20 PM | #71 | |
Chillin' out by the Bay
Drives: 2007 Yaris Liftback Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The back streets of San Fran
Posts: 151
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If I may respectfully clarify the quoted statement: The oil does not churn in the crankcase and nothing touches it except the oil pickup. If the crankshaft did, then the crankcase is overfilled. The oil pump picks up the oil, sends it to the filter, onto the journals to lube the crank, rod bearings and cylinder walls, up and to the valve drive train and the camshaft chains. Oil acts as a lubricant and helps cool the engine, acting as a heat exchange medium for friction reduction. That said, the advantage Amsoil, and synthetics in general, had over so-called dyno oil, as it relates to flow, was primarily seen at the two extremes of the operating temperatures. In freezing temps, Amsoil and most synthetics flowed better, reducing start-up wear. At higher extremes, synthetics do have a distinct advantage due to stability of the molecule. Hydrocarbon based oils break down sooner than the synthetically engineered molecules in high temps; however, it must be noted that one rarely reaches these temperatures in normal driving unless towing under severe load in extremely high ambient temperatures and generating extremely high heat. Racing engines and forced induction engines benefit from synthetics for this reason. With the use of lower viscosity dyno oils; i.e., 0w-X, this gap has narrowed substantially. With respect to cleaning ability and longer oil change intervals, synthetics used to have the advantage in the ability to suspend deposits. One of the main culprits (not the only one) to engine wear - carbon deposits from the combustion process - were held in suspension much longer. (Carbon literally acts as sandpaper). With today's extremely close tolerance engines, the primary reason they can run 0w-20w oils, as well as their super efficient combustion process, the combustion deposits take much longer to accumulate allowing extended oil drain intervals. With respect to mpg increases, when Amsoil first came out, there were increases in mpg. Back then, engines were running higher visosity oils. The flow characteristics of Amsoil made the 'effective weight' much lower enabling the advantage. The new lower viscosity dyno oils have narrowed that margin. Tests now show that mpg gains of synthetics over dyno oils of equivalent viscosity are marginal, the reason many here don't see gains. If one changes dyno oil at the recommended interval, the cost differential of synthetics may not be that attractive even at extended intervals. I ran Amsoil for years and swore by it; however, given that the Yaris runs a 5w-30 oil, I just use the dyno oil, change it at 5K and put that savings into beverages. Heh..
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Gettin' all the way down. Meteorite '07 HB STILL completely stock; but.... checkin' out da other ones to see what's what. |
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05-04-2009, 02:58 PM | #72 |
FYI: just read a toyota memo to all dealers stating by next year all toyota engines will be using 0W20 oil and have longer oil change intervals. can any other toyota guy on here confirm this?
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