I NEED to Figure a Way to Get More Front Seat Leg Room

[Tony Stark]

Lack of leg-room when sitting in the driver's seat, and a lack of sufficient rearward travel on the seat adjustment seems to be a pretty common complaint for the Yaris.

I have read a post by at least one guy who solved the problem by taking the seats into a metal fabrication / customization shop and having the attachment brackets extended further rearward by cutting them and welding a longer peice of metal in there. Apparently it costs about 500.00 to have that done.

I am only 6' 0", but I had a real problem with the lack of rearward seat adjustment. My knee wasnt hitting the steering wheel or anything, but I had to bend my knee way too-much to fit my leg between the seat and gas pedal even at the maximum rearward adjustment. The extreme knee-angle was very uncomfortable over longer driving distances. Also, I had to cock my leg out to the side at a weird angle to fit it in there, which was causing me pain in my right hip. Basically, what I needed was an extra few inches of rearward seat-travel so that I could straighten out my knee and leg more.

Being the cheap, miserly bastard that I am, I decided I wasn't going to shell out 500 bucks to have my seat brackets cut and extended by somebody else, so I decided to make my own custom brackets that basically mount onto the existing holes in the floor using the stock screws. The idea was that the new bracket would provide a platform to mount the existing seat brackets onto, only further back. The custom brackets I made have holes in them that are 6" further to the rear of the existing floor holes, so I now have greater rear-ward adjustment.

Fabricating these things was a real pain in the ass, and I spent several multi-hour sessions in my hot, non- air conditioned garage measuring, cutting, drilling etc. , but in the end I did come up with something that works great. It cost me less than 100.00, and the most expensive portion of that hundred bucks went towards buying and mounting a vise for my garage which I did not own when I started this project. If you have a well-equipped shop/garage and have a lot of tools already, you could probably do it yourself as well for about 50 bucks.

In the interest of helping out others who may have the same problem as I do with knee/hip pain when driving the Yaris, I am posting the details here about how I went about making my custom brackets.I hope it helps. The measurements cited are for a 2010 2 door hatchback. I am not sure how much the specs vary from model to model, year to year, or from individual car to car. So if you do try to do what I did, you should also your own measurements instead of relying on mine. My own experiences should help point you in the right direction, give you a general plan of attack, and hopefully help you avoid a few mistakes I made before I got it right.

FYI: The other reason ( besides the cost ) that I chose to make my own brackets instead of chopping/extending the existing ones is that I did not want to change or damage the existing equipment. I wasnt sure what that would do to the warranty, and also I might want to sell my car at some point. With a custom bracket that the existing seat bolts onto as-is, I figure I can always just remove my modifications and put it all back to normal.

I should mention that I had already taken out my rear seats before beginning this project. It took me about a week of owning my Yaris to figure out that the little rear compartment was not going to be sufficient for all the crap I haul around on a regular basis. I decided that I wanted cargo room more than I wanted rear-seats, and my plan was/is to extend the rear deck forward to create a larger flat storage area. The fact that my rear seats were already out probably made installing my custom front-seat brackets easier, because I had empty space there to just fold up the Driver's seat and shove it back and out of the way. I havent tried my new brackets with my rear seats installed yet, so I am not sure if you would hit the rear seats at maximum rearward adjustment ( 6" further than original ). My guess is that the new brackets would probably work OK with the rear seats in, but I am not positive.

Legal Disclaimer: If you make your own brackets using any ideas or information I have posted here, you do so at your own risk and you assume any and all responsibility for your actions. If it voids your warranty, or they break and you go flying through the windsheild, don't come crying to me. What I fabricated seems to work OK for me, but I am not an engineer, and I really have no idea how safe or sturdy they are. I am willing to take the risk of installing customized brackets because I simply couldnt drive my Yaris like it was without signifigant pain in my knee and hip. If you want to make your own brackets, then that's your business and you do so at your own risk...

You will need:

-(2) Flat bars of steel. 1/4 inch thick, 36" long, 1 1/2 inches wide. Home Depot or Lowes has them .

-(4) 3/8 " Hex-head machine-threaded Bolts 1 1/2 inches long.

-(4) 3/8" I.D. Rubber Grommets ( or Washers )

-(4) 3/8" Flat Washers

-(4) 3/8" Lock Washers

-(4) 3/8" Wingnuts

-(4) 1 1/2 " wide angle-iron brackets

- Expoxy or JB Weld ( I prefer "JB Kwik" )- probably two packages

- ( 1 or 2 ) 3/8" Titanium Metal-Boring drill bit ( I went through two )

- ( 1 ) 5/16" Titanium Metal-Boring drill bit ( one is sufficient )

- A drill. I drained at least six batteries trying to do this project with my 18V Lithium Ion cordless drill, so if you have a drill with a power cord that runs off 120V AC, it would be much better/easier.

- An Oxy-Acetylene torch set (or possibly you could use a standard plumbing-style Mapp-Gas Torch ) to heat the metal bars up enough to bend them slightly. I used an oxy-acetylene torch because I already own one. If you try to use a standard plumbing torch, get the yellow tank which is MAPP-Gas not the blue one, which is just Propane and would probably take a long time to heat up.

- A big pair of Channel-locks to bend the hot metal with.

- A Vice and some sort of work-bench

-#10 female Torx Socket

- 3/8 Drive Socket set with extender

- A Sawzall with a metal-cutting blade or an angle-grinder with a cut-off wheel to cut the metal bars. ( I suppose you could use a hack-saw if you have plenty of time, patience, and fortitude.)

- A Tape Measure

- A Marker or Sharpie

- Gloss Black Spray-paint


Step one- Unbolt the driver's seat from the floor. There are four bolts that go through the seat brackets into four holes in the floor. You will need a #10 FEMALE TORX socket to take those bolts out. Fold up the seat and stow it off to the side behind the passenger seat so you have room to work. ( I put a tarp around the passenger seat to keep from poking/damaging the passenger's seat-cloth with the sharp points on the driver's seat bracket. ) The bolts are pretty tight, so you may need to slide like a short pipe or something over the end of your ratchet handle to gain added leverage. Put the jack next to the spare tire in the back where it belongs. ( No clue why Toyota chose to put it under the front seat when there is plenty of room next to the spare tire... )

Step Two- Cut the two metal bars to the following lengths- 27 1/4", and 27 3/16". The longer one will be for the Outer Bracket ( nearest the driver's door ). The shorter one will be for the Inner Bracket ( nearest the passenger seat ). Designate those peices with the marker as "inner and outer ".

Step Three- Cut those two lengths down to 23 inches exactly. Save the smaller peices ( 4 1/4" and 4 3/16".) Lable all four peices as inner or outer. The small peices will act as reinforcements at the rear of the longer peices ( attached later in the process ). The longer of the small peices ( 4 1/4" ) goes with the Outer Bracket, and the shorter of the two small peices ( 4 3/16" ) goes with the Inner Bracket.

Step Four- Mark the centers of all your holes and drill them out. There will be 5 holes in each bar.They will all be made using the 3/8" bit except for the third hole from the front which will be made with the 5/16" bit. The first hole's center is 3/4" back from the front edge of the bar.( use 3/8" bit here ). The second hole's center is exactly 6" behind the first hole's center. ( use 3/8 " bit here ). The third hole's center is exactly 1 1/4" behind the second hole's center ( use 5/16" bit here ). The 4th hole's center is exactly 14 1/2" behind the FIRST hole's center ( use 3/8" bit here ). The 5th hole's center is exactly 6" behind the 4th hole's center.

* I realize that it would be easier if I had all of the measurements from the front edge of the metal bar to the center of each hole, but I didnt' measure them that way so I am giving you what I have. You should check all of these measurements yourself anyways on your own vehicle to make sure they apply to your situation.

** If you do your own measurements and you come up with a slightly different measurement for the distance from the center of Hole 1 to Hole 4, know that I added-in a smidge extra to make up for a slight amount of linear distance that is lost due to the bending of the metal ( a lesson I had to learn the hard way ). You may come up with 14 3/8 from hole 1 center to hole 4 center. 14 1/2 will work better after the bar is bent.

*** The idea is that holes One and Four ( counting holes from front to back ) are the points that attach to the existing floor holes using the existing Torx bolts. Holes Two and Five represent the points that the existing seat brackets attach to. As these new attachment points ( Holes Two and Five ) are set exactly 6" behind holes One and Four, an additional 6"of travel is therebye created. Hole Three exists to recieve the "positioning pins" from the existing seat brackets ( You will see what I am talking about after you remove the seat. )

Step Five- Make a line with the marker exactly 1 1/2 " back from the front edge of both bars. You will need to heat up the bars red-hot and bend them exactly at that point to a specific angle. I captured the exact angle to-be-duplicated by laying one of my iron bars across the two attachment points on the floor and bending a brazing rod from that level surface to match the angle of the front attachment point- which is slightly angled. ( You will see what I mean when you take the seat off. ) You can either capture that angle yourself using any thin, bendable item like a coat hanger or brazing stick, OR you can just print out the picture I am attaching to this post and use that angle. In any case, the bend at 1 1/2 inches needs to be the same as the bend on the existing seat bracket.

Step Six- After the metal cools, use the 1 1/2" wide Angle-Iron brackets and the Epoxy to attach the smaller lengths of metal that you saved from Step Three to the Inner and Outer Brackets at a 90 degree angle.

* Yes, I realize that it would be a stronger structure if I had bent these reinforcing peices from the longer peice of metal, but I chose to attach a smaller peice to the longer peice using epoxy for several reasons.... A. ) I was having trouble bending the metal to such a great degree precisely at a single point. I found that I was bending the whole bar the first time I tried it. B. ) I realized that I was losing a LOT of linear distance with a 90 degree corner bend- enough that it became apparent that I would have cut my bars too short to reach the floor if I continued trying to bend the bars to 90 degrees. By simply making a clean cut instead, and epoxying the smaller peices using 90 degree angle-iron, I did not lose any length/ linear distance from bending and did not have to start all over with new/longer bars. C.) It seems to me that the stress on that reinforcing point is mainly compressive in nature, and is oriented up and down as opposed to a shearing force going front-to back. Accordingly, all the epoxy has to do is to POSITION the reinforcer. The bar takes the load the same either way ( up and down ). I acknowledge that bending would be stronger than epoxying, but I did not know how to quantify the linear distance lost by the inclusion of a bend without heating and wasting a bar to measure it. Without that quantification, I did not know how long to cut the bars. Maybe somebody with more patience than me could create brackets similiar to what I made by using bends instead of epoxy for the rear-reinforcer section, and will provide the appropriate measurements....

** Hopefully the Expoxy holds up over time. If not, I guess it's back to the ol' drawing board.

Step Seven- After the Epoxy dries, place the brackets in position in the car and attach them to the floorboard. Then attach the seat to the new bracket using the 3/8" bolts, washers, locknuts, grommets, and lock washers. ( I chose to use the grommets to attach the front bolts for the purpose of bridging a small gap caused by the slightly off-angle orientation of the front attachment point on the existing seat bracket. They might or might not be neccesary. ) You may have to ream out some of your holes at this point in the process if anything is slightly off. The thing is to make any adjustments, re-drillings, or widenings now before you paint your new brackets.

Step Eight. Once you have reamed out a few holes and have determined that everything mates-up and fits together correctly, paint the brackets black. Let them dry overnight and install them the next day.

Step Nine- Enjoy your new leg-room.

* I chose to use wingnuts instead of conventional nuts for two-reasons- A.) easier to tighten underneath the seat B.) I plan to remove my custom brackets and put the seat back to normal before I take it in for scheduled service. I don't know if custom seat brackets have any effect on the warranty, and I don't want any Toyota service techs putting any notations in the computer about my modified seats. Maybe un-neccessary, but you never know...

** Not sure if thread-locker is adviseable on the bolts that attach the existing seat bracket to the new custom bracket- we'll see if they vibrate loose over time.

[yarrr]

I can't see the pictures and its waaaaay to long to read, but putting washers under your seat is not a great idea if that's what its about.

[Tony Stark]

OK, not sure why all the pictures I tried to attach to the previous post are not showing up, but they can all be viewed at the following link:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/53642306@N05

http://www.flickr.com/photos/53642306@N05/

[Tony Stark]

OK Yarrr, thanks for commenting on my post that you admit you didnt even read and aren't sure "what it's about". I appreciate your well-informed and helpful feedback...

[padre1964]

loaded the pics for you. interesting mod. could you post a pic of the seat reinstalled in the full back position?

[Tony Stark]

Thank you Padre, for putting up the images for me.

Not sure why I was unable to add them to my post. I tried using the "insert lmage icon" in the "quick reply " text window. When the box pops up asking for the image url, I pasted the link that I grabbed from Flickr for each image. ( Using "grab link" from flickr's "share" drop-down menu... any idea what am I doing wrong? I will gladly post a picture of the seat in full-back position with the new brackets if I can only figure out how to post images correctly here.

I spent part of this afternoon driving around the neighborhood and making a few adjustments to get everything situated correctly.

I want to add a few notes/ caveats to my original post for anybody else who tries to fabricate their own brackets based on those adjustments....

1. If I had to do it over again, I would definitley make my bars longer, not cut them, and instead make a bend for the rear reinforcement 90 degree turn. I would not mess wity with epoxy and angle-irons if I had to start over from scratch. I would have been better off adding 3/4 inch to the bar length, going ahead and losing a portion of that linear distance in the course of the bend, and then grinding/cutting off any remainders to make it exactly reach the floor after-the-fact.. One of the epoxy joints came partially loose already, and I had to reinforce the joints with eight self-tapping sheet metal screws ( I pre-drilled holes slightly smaller than the screws to get through the thick metal ). Four screws in each bracket- Two up-and-down, and two side-to-side. We'll see how that goes. I may have to add some kind of additional corner reinforcement down the road.

2. Since completing this project, I have learned from online reading that my front seats apparently have airbags in them. Had I known this, I would have been careful not to place my face, head, or neck within a foot or so of the edge of the seat while I was working down there. I did not mess with the wiring connected to the seat, as toyota thankfully left plenty of slack and I was able to just slide the seat back and to the side behind the passenger seat with the wiring all still hooked up. I don't know if it is possible to accidentally deploy that airbag by farting around under the seat with the wiring, but I would strongly advise anybody who has airbags in the seats to use caution and treat them like loaded weapons when working around them.

3. As it turns out, I probably added too much additional rearward adjustment with these brackets. 6" is too much to really make much use of, as my feet barely reach the pedals at maximum rear adjustment. The most I would realistically use is 2 or 3 inches of the additional travel, but that extra three inches is heavenly! It makes all the difference in the world. My steering wheel does not telescope, so as a result of sitting further back, I do find myself using the five-and-seven hand position on the wheel instead of the nine-and-three or ten-and-two positions as before, but that's OK. It's well worth the added leg room. It's actually possible to slide the seat back so far now that I can fully straighten my legs. I could therefore theoretically pull over and comfortably take a catnap at a roadside rest-stop now in a pinch, which would have been impossible before due to the uncomfortable leg position. ( It would be impossible to drive with the seat in the new full-rearward position due to the distance to the steering wheel and pedals. )

4. I would not reccomend this modification to anybody who has a manual transmission. It's fine for putting the car in "Drive" one time when you start your journey/commute, but for constant shifting, the distance to the shift lever would be uncomfortable I think.

5. The modified brackets I made resulted in a slightly higher driver's seat- about 3/8 to 1/2 inch I would guess. I am already used to it but if I was 6'5" instead of 6'0" it might be a problem.

6. The modified brackets I made resulted in a slightly more reclined seat angle, which I did not like. I have read some posts in Yarisworld from people who do this intentionally by adding washers or spacers to the front attachment points of the driver's seat to add more thigh support. Personally, I liked the original seat angle, so I put the angle back to normal by adding 8 flat washers to the rear attachment points. I had to switch to 2" threaded bolts instead of 1 1/2 to accomodate the added spacers.

I have my leg room just the way I want it now. My next project will be to make a flat storage area ( with carpet ) where the rear seats used to be.....

[fnkngrv]

Originally Posted by Tony Stark

Thank you Padre, for putting up the images for me.

Not sure why I was unable to add them to my post. I tried using the "insert lmage icon" in the "quick reply " text window. When the box pops up asking for the image url, I pasted the link that I grabbed from Flickr for each image. ( Using "grab link" from flickr's "share" drop-down menu... any idea what am I doing wrong? I will gladly post a picture of the seat in full-back position with the new brackets if I can only figure out how to post images correctly here.

I spent part of this afternoon driving around the neighborhood and making a few adjustments to get everything situated correctly.

I want to add a few notes/ caveats to my original post for anybody else who tries to fabricate their own brackets based on those adjustments....

1. If I had to do it over again, I would definitley make my bars longer, not cut them, and instead make a bend for the rear reinforcement 90 degree turn. I would not mess wity with epoxy and angle-irons if I had to start over from scratch. I would have been better off adding 3/4 inch to the bar length, going ahead and losing a portion of that linear distance in the course of the bend, and then grinding/cutting off any remainders to make it exactly reach the floor after-the-fact.. One of the epoxy joints came partially loose already, and I had to reinforce the joints with eight self-tapping sheet metal screws ( I pre-drilled holes slightly smaller than the screws to get through the thick metal ). Four screws in each bracket- Two up-and-down, and two side-to-side. We'll see how that goes. I may have to add some kind of additional corner reinforcement down the road.

2. Since completing this project, I have learned from online reading that my front seats apparently have airbags in them. Had I known this, I would have been careful not to place my face, head, or neck within a foot or so of the edge of the seat while I was working down there. I did not mess with the wiring connected to the seat, as toyota thankfully left plenty of slack and I was able to just slide the seat back and to the side behind the passenger seat with the wiring all still hooked up. I don't know if it is possible to accidentally deploy that airbag by farting around under the seat with the wiring, but I would strongly advise anybody who has airbags in the seats to use caution and treat them like loaded weapons when working around them.

3. As it turns out, I probably added too much additional rearward adjustment with these brackets. 6" is too much to really make much use of, as my feet barely reach the pedals at maximum rear adjustment. The most I would realistically use is 2 or 3 inches of the additional travel, but that extra three inches is heavenly! It makes all the difference in the world. My steering wheel does not telescope, so as a result of sitting further back, I do find myself using the five-and-seven hand position on the wheel instead of the nine-and-three or ten-and-two positions as before, but that's OK. It's well worth the added leg room. It's actually possible to slide the seat back so far now that I can fully straighten my legs. I could therefore theoretically pull over and comfortably take a catnap at a roadside rest-stop now in a pinch, which would have been impossible before due to the uncomfortable leg position. ( It would be impossible to drive with the seat in the new full-rearward position due to the distance to the steering wheel and pedals. )

4. I would not reccomend this modification to anybody who has a manual transmission. It's fine for putting the car in "Drive" one time when you start your journey/commute, but for constant shifting, the distance to the shift lever would be uncomfortable I think.

5. The modified brackets I made resulted in a slightly higher driver's seat- about 3/8 to 1/2 inch I would guess. I am already used to it but if I was 6'5" instead of 6'0" it might be a problem.

6. The modified brackets I made resulted in a slightly more reclined seat angle, which I did not like. I have read some posts in Yarisworld from people who do this intentionally by adding washers or spacers to the front attachment points of the driver's seat to add more thigh support. Personally, I liked the original seat angle, so I put the angle back to normal by adding 8 flat washers to the rear attachment points. I had to switch to 2" threaded bolts instead of 1 1/2 to accomodate the added spacers.

I have my leg room just the way I want it now. My next project will be to make a flat storage area ( with carpet ) where the rear seats used to be.....

Awesome write up on your DIY work! As for your pic posting woes I have noticed a bit of troubles using the built in copy and paste feature with MyPhotoAlbum.com. I instead go into the field, right click and choose select all, then copy. That fixed my troubles, it could possibly help you?

[padre1964]

Originally Posted by Tony Stark

Thank you Padre, for putting up the images for me.

I have my leg room just the way I want it now. My next project will be to make a flat storage area ( with carpet ) where the rear seats used to be.....

feel free to just post the flickr link and i can fix it for you. look forward to seeing a flat storage area. i am also planning on doing this but its still to hot here in ATL