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Old 02-02-2016, 08:39 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by CrankyOldMan View Post
So even with a non-immobilizer ECM, there's still a chance that the immobilizer will prevent the engine from running (via K-line)? Is the fix for that to just get a non-immobilizer ECM and disconnect the K-line from the transponder key ECU (or remove the transponder system entirely)?
With one of the prior 2ZR swaps I helped with there was an issue where the non-immobilizer ECM started acting like it was immobilizer enabled when the chassis still had the transponder key ECM present. So, when installing a non-immobilizer ECM you do need to make sure that the transponder key ECU is disconnected.

Unfortunately the opposite is not true, where installing an immobilized ECM in a non-immobilizer car eliminates the immobilizer function.
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Old 02-02-2016, 08:57 PM   #110
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That's what i'm wondering. Can you just purchase a non immobilizer xD ecu and then just remove the immobilizer from the steering wheel and just run a regular tumbler and get new keys cut to match.

Therefore key turns tumbler to activate starter and ignition, no immobilizer to turn off the engine.
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Old 02-02-2016, 09:04 PM   #111
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That's what i'm wondering. Can you just purchase a non immobilizer xD ecu and then just remove the immobilizer from the steering wheel and just run a regular tumbler and get new keys cut to match.

Therefore key turns tumbler to activate starter and ignition, no immobilizer to turn off the engine.
I don't think you'd even have to go that far. From what CT is saying, you just have to disconnect the K-line from the key transponder ECU (pin 9). Same key, no need to remove the coil from around the tumbler, no need to remove the transponder ECU.

The key probably just has an RFID chip in it. The transponder coil is just a length of wire wound around the tumbler that acts as an antenna to "ask" the key what info it has. The transponder ECU converts the wireless signal into control/commands for the ECM, saying "go ahead and crank, it's the right key".
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Old 02-02-2016, 09:06 PM   #112
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With one of the prior 2ZR swaps I helped with there was an issue where the non-immobilizer ECM started acting like it was immobilizer enabled when the chassis still had the transponder key ECM present.
That makes sense from a design standpoint: our shift-by-wire products have to have a secondary communication system in case the direct line to the TCM fails. It's not always a second CAN line, so the K-line would be a viable backup.
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Old 02-02-2016, 09:27 PM   #113
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I don't think you'd even have to go that far. From what CT is saying, you just have to disconnect the K-line from the key transponder ECU (pin 9). Same key, no need to remove the coil from around the tumbler, no need to remove the transponder ECU.

The key probably just has an RFID chip in it. The transponder coil is just a length of wire wound around the tumbler that acts as an antenna to "ask" the key what info it has. The transponder ECU converts the wireless signal into control/commands for the ECM, saying "go ahead and crank, it's the right key".
Correct - Non-Immobilizer ECM and make sure comm between key ECU and ECM is disconnected and you don't have to change the ignition switch assembly, as the reader that is built in is not used with the connection split.
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Old 02-02-2016, 09:46 PM   #114
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OR.....

Someone could leave all of the immobilizer parts intact, tow the car to the dealership, pay the techs $200 to try their best.....and possibly get answers for the whole community. If they fail, no big deal and you disconnect the ECU.
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Old 02-02-2016, 10:26 PM   #115
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OR.....

Someone could leave all of the immobilizer parts intact, tow the car to the dealership, pay the techs $200 to try their best.....and possibly get answers for the whole community. If they fail, no big deal and you disconnect the ECU.
There is a limited amount that Toyota techs can do. If you have the master key for the original immobilized ECM you can add new keys (so you could add a Yaris key to the XD ECM, if you got the XD with its original master key). Without the master key there is nothing Toyota can do (except replace the ECM and keys).

Beyond the dealership, it is possible to clear the existing transponder key data from the ECM (so that you can add new keys, as if the ECM is brand new), but that requires opening the ECM an desoldering and reflashing the EEPROM that stores the data.
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Old 02-03-2016, 03:48 AM   #116
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Beyond the dealership, it is possible to clear the existing transponder key data from the ECM (so that you can add new keys, as if the ECM is brand new), but that requires opening the ECM an desoldering and reflashing the EEPROM that stores the data.
Ooh! I hope it's a BGA package!!
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Old 02-03-2016, 05:10 PM   #117
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A fellow dealership tech I know said you should be able to program keys via a locksmith too, I believe they can come to your house so it's worth a shot.

The unknown element here is "IF" the Yaris immobilizer system will communicate properly with the Xd ECM.

Last edited by ArmstrongRacing; 02-03-2016 at 05:28 PM.
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Old 02-03-2016, 05:52 PM   #118
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There is a limited amount that Toyota techs can do. If you have the master key for the original immobilized ECM you can add new keys (so you could add a Yaris key to the XD ECM, if you got the XD with its original master key). Without the master key there is nothing Toyota can do (except replace the ECM and keys).
When I worked for our Toyota dealership we would wipe cars that lost all the keys all the time. Now some of the older vehicles you had to replace the ECM, but the newer stuff like this we would just wipe and reprogram new keys. I know the tech has to be a Master Tech under Toyota and they hook up the car to the shop computer and they have to get Toyota themselves to do a master reset like that.

Here is a TSB about this: Linky
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Old 02-03-2016, 06:27 PM   #119
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When I worked for our Toyota dealership we would wipe cars that lost all the keys all the time. Now some of the older vehicles you had to replace the ECM, but the newer stuff like this we would just wipe and reprogram new keys. I know the tech has to be a Master Tech under Toyota and they hook up the car to the shop computer and they have to get Toyota themselves to do a master reset like that.

Here is a TSB about this: Linky
That doc is dated 2002. For the newer vehicles there is no such procedure, that I have ever seen documented.
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Old 02-03-2016, 09:30 PM   #120
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They haven't changed anything about it since then, it is still the same procedure for lost keys and the such. We used to do them all the time for customers. Not sure how so many of our customers lost all their keys, but we did lots. Some of the nuances of the newer cars might have changed, but I know we were doing the newer cars, too. Like 2014's new.

Not sure how it would work for a swap like this, but it can probably be finagled.

I hope I don't seem like I'm being an ass or anything, I just worked at our Toyota dealership for 11 years. Seven of those were as a manager, and I was one of the ones who would authorize key codes requests and stuff like that, I just wanted to give a broader set of options for dealing with stuff like this.

If a dealership is telling you otherwise they are probably just being difficult, or don't have any master techs that have access to complete wipes and reprograms.

We would also run into this when people would bring in a valet to try and program a new master key and they would have to do a complete wipe and reprogram it all from scratch.
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Old 02-03-2016, 09:59 PM   #121
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They haven't changed anything about it since then, it is still the same procedure for lost keys and the such. We used to do them all the time for customers. Not sure how so many of our customers lost all their keys, but we did lots. Some of the nuances of the newer cars might have changed, but I know we were doing the newer cars, too. Like 2014's new.

Not sure how it would work for a swap like this, but it can probably be finagled.

I hope I don't seem like I'm being an ass or anything, I just worked at our Toyota dealership for 11 years. Seven of those were as a manager, and I was one of the ones who would authorize key codes requests and stuff like that, I just wanted to give a broader set of options for dealing with stuff like this.

If a dealership is telling you otherwise they are probably just being difficult, or don't have any master techs that have access to complete wipes and reprograms.

We would also run into this when people would bring in a valet to try and program a new master key and they would have to do a complete wipe and reprogram it all from scratch.
I don't doubt it. It would be crazy for there not to be a back door, but I just haven't seen any mention of it in any Toyota documentation for the past 10+ years.
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Old 02-04-2016, 05:51 AM   #122
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I know on the older vehicles that do need a ecm replacement if the master key is lost, they will do a one time free ECU replacement to get new master keys programmed to it. I know as a precaution our techs always just programmed all keys to the vehicle as master keys.

I know when I was at Toyota if there wasn't a replacement documentation for a TSB like the one I linked to, it usually still applied. Toyota was usually really good for stuff like this. I do miss working for them sometimes. They were usually so organized and fantastic to work with.

Now chrysler and hyundai, now that's a different story, LoL.
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Old 02-04-2016, 10:17 AM   #123
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2zr swap fuel mileage

Sorry to disturb the immobilizer discussion, but here are my 2zr swap MPG's...

This is combined city/highway with an hour sitting in traffic in the mornings AND Evenings.
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Old 02-04-2016, 10:22 AM   #124
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Was that including the autox
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Old 02-04-2016, 10:44 AM   #125
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No, just commuting to work, and I wasn't afraid of using wot to make some passes....and the a/c was running always...so expect an "average" of 30mpg combined.

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Old 02-04-2016, 11:29 AM   #126
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No, just commuting to work, and I wasn't afraid of using wot to make some passes....and the a/c was running always...so expect an "average" of 30mpg combined.
not terrible...
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