Timing check: Quick response needed! - Page 2 - Toyota Yaris Forums

tmontague · 05-04-2015, 01:26 PM

The Echo is my fiancees car, and it's a bit rusted, old and the a/c hasn't worked since she bought it used w/ 280,000km on it. It now has. 350,000km.

It was burning some oil so I figured i'd replace the valve seals and clean the head and valves as there was some oil buildup under the oil cap. At the same time it would help me learn about the 1NZ engine in case I had to do any future engine work on my Yaris. It also is my escape from the grind of med school and since I just finished exams I was looking forward to workin on the Echo.

I have the full work manual and made sure every thing was done properly and had no problem doing the work. I didn't bother with the valve seals as it would've been too much work that I didn't feel like spending to remove all the valves.

The issue now seems electrical which is causing the misfire. Saturday when I'm back in town I'll check all the connectors again and make sure none are disconnected, I already did a quick check of this but will do it again.

My fiancés will likely get a business car in 2 years so I wanted to keep the Echo goin for her for that time as we don't really have the cash for a new car. I don't like buying something new if the original still works. If I can't get it to fire properly than I won't have much choice. I'm hoping Saturday I can get it to run again

tmontague · 05-04-2015, 05:10 PM

Can someone please confirm the number of grounds located on the right side of the engine (when facing the engine bay). I think I remember disconnecting a 3rd one located further back on the right side of the engine but now that I think about it I don't remember installing it back. I remember seeing a threaded hole for a 10mm bolt and when fully assembled I was able to bolt a 10mm bracket which was missing a bolt when I started the job.

Could a disconnected ground cause a multiple misfire? I won't be able to check this until Saturday

KTS · 05-04-2015, 07:47 PM

There are two 10mm bolts for grounds by the coolant and cam sensors.

tmontague · 05-04-2015, 07:51 PM

Yes, I installed those. Is there not one by itself further behind those 2 grounds that are above and below each other? It is tougher to see with all of the wires there but that is where I have an open 10mm bolt hole and an extra 10mm bolt

Bluevitz-rs · 05-04-2015, 08:29 PM

I sent you a PM. I can send you pictures from my phone and iPod if you get me your email. The Yaris has a different electrical system than the Echo.

tmontague · 05-04-2015, 11:09 PM

Pm sent, thanks

tmontague · 05-08-2015, 12:00 PM

I'll be checking all the electrical connectors tomorrow and re connecting any loose grounds. I'm also checking the coil packs and plugs by putting them in the Yaris and seeing if they have an issue.

If this fails then I have a feeling I made a mistake when installing the head gasket. I torqued down the bolts but forgot to oil the threads. I also didn't check that the product number was in the correct spot. I'm thinking that this may be the reason for the white smoke near the exhaust manifold which could mean coolant is fouling the plugs.

I'll post back here and keep the thread updated, i'm hoping it's a simple coil pack or electrical issue.

tmontague · 05-08-2015, 04:57 PM

just quickly checked the spark plug today after work. They are all black and covered in the black soot and smell like gasoline.

Does this mean anything knew other than the car not firing leading to buildup of fuel in the cylinder?

I'm thinking I improperly installed the head gasket and now the coolant is getting in the cylinder causing it not to start. Does the current plug condition lead away from this diagnosis or is it current with a head gasket issue?

tmontague · 05-09-2015, 12:28 PM

The coil packs and plug from the Echo ran perfectly fine in my Yaris. So ruled those out.

Did a compression test in the echo, results were:
C1: 150psi
C2: 175psi
C3: 130psi
C4: 175psi

So no valve issue causing no compression. Likely have bad rings on cylinder 3 but i'm not concerned about as it has 350,000km on it.

Now I'm going to re install the head gasket perfectly as I think it is leaking causing the issue. Let's see if I can get it done in under 7 hrs

tmontague · 05-09-2015, 09:53 PM

new update. The head gasket is installed correctly and the timing is perfect. The car is turning over great but it won't catch. I have narrowed it down to a fuel issue due to the following:

When the key is turned to ignition, a weird buzz/beep is heard coming from the fuel rail (used a screwdriver to my ear to tell). The buzz goes away when the EFI relay is removed, the key it turned off from ignition or is I open up the throttle.

The car does not smell like fuel after trying to start is so the engine is not getting flooded. I swapped relays and the same problem persists so it is not the fuel pump relay and the fuse is still fine.

Does any one else have any recommendations on what to look for or what the noise could mean? Is there any other fuses or electrical things I can check that relate to the fuel system? I am so close to getting the car to fire back up again and am really hoping to get it started soon.

Thanks

Bluevitz-rs · 05-09-2015, 10:43 PM

The buzzing might actually be the idle air speed controller. It operates off a duty cycle and could be making that noise. It would also explain why the buzzing stops when you. Open the throttle.

tmontague · 05-09-2015, 11:19 PM

As in you think it went bad? Would a bad IASC cause a no start?

The odd thing is that the sounds of definitely heard from the fuel rail for sure

Bluevitz-rs · 05-10-2015, 08:49 AM

No not in the warm weather. It should at least fire a couple times. Try cracking the throttle as you crank?

Can you get a video of the sound?

tmontague · 05-10-2015, 09:12 AM

I tried giving it gas while cranking as well as putting the pedal down to the floor, no change or start doing either. No gas smell so no flooding. I will get a video up asap.

Next weekend i'll be removing the fuel line and cranking it to see if there is fuel from the pump. If I can't get it figured out in a couple weeks then i'll get CAA to tow it to my mechanic and hope he can tell me what's wrong with it.

I was hoping someone knew what that constant buzz would be. Does that happen if the fuel pump is toast? I'm thinking that the noise is the relay or something trying to get fuel to the injectors and since no fuel is getting there it keep trying.

Are there any fuses or relays I should look for other than the obvious 2 in the engine bay? Is there a fuel cutoff located anywhere in the car that I could have tripped that I need to reset?

Bluevitz-rs · 05-10-2015, 09:30 AM

It still sounds like you have a bad ground somewhere.

Sent from my iPod Touch

Bluevitz-rs · 05-10-2015, 09:33 AM

There's nothing in the fuel rail that could be buzzing. The injectors would only open when the ECU tells them too with rotation of the crankshaft a bad cam position sensor can cause the engine not to start.

Did you sand off the grounds to make sure they're clean?

Sent from my iPod Touch

tmontague · 05-10-2015, 10:22 AM

I didn't sand them as they looked clean. There are only 2 grounds on the front of the drivers side of the engine and both are connected. I checked and re checked for other grounds and there were none.

I cleaned and put dielectric grease on the cam position sensor connector.

Odd thing is, there were no issues with grounds prior to working on the car and they are clean.

I'm going to first check if there is fuel when the ignition is turned on to rule out fuel pump.

tmontague · 05-11-2015, 06:30 PM

Update:

Went to check the fuel pressure and checked the spark before just to make sure. Sure enough, no spark at any of the plugs. Tried the coils and plugs from my Yaris and still no spark. Is there a an ignition fuse I can check. What else should I check that could cause no spark when the coil packs and plugs are fine?

05-10-2015, 09:33 AM	#34
Bluevitz-rs 1NZ-6spd View User's Garage Drives: '05 6-Spd Vitz RS Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,967	Timing check: Quick response needed! There's nothing in the fuel rail that could be buzzing. The injectors would only open when the ECU tells them too with rotation of the crankshaft a bad cam position sensor can cause the engine not to start. Did you sand off the grounds to make sure they're clean? Sent from my iPod Touch

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05-04-2015, 01:26 PM	#19
tmontague View User's Garage Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Caledonia Ont. Posts: 2,938	The Echo is my fiancees car, and it's a bit rusted, old and the a/c hasn't worked since she bought it used w/ 280,000km on it. It now has. 350,000km. It was burning some oil so I figured i'd replace the valve seals and clean the head and valves as there was some oil buildup under the oil cap. At the same time it would help me learn about the 1NZ engine in case I had to do any future engine work on my Yaris. It also is my escape from the grind of med school and since I just finished exams I was looking forward to workin on the Echo. I have the full work manual and made sure every thing was done properly and had no problem doing the work. I didn't bother with the valve seals as it would've been too much work that I didn't feel like spending to remove all the valves. The issue now seems electrical which is causing the misfire. Saturday when I'm back in town I'll check all the connectors again and make sure none are disconnected, I already did a quick check of this but will do it again. My fiancés will likely get a business car in 2 years so I wanted to keep the Echo goin for her for that time as we don't really have the cash for a new car. I don't like buying something new if the original still works. If I can't get it to fire properly than I won't have much choice. I'm hoping Saturday I can get it to run again

05-04-2015, 05:10 PM	#20
tmontague View User's Garage Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Caledonia Ont. Posts: 2,938	Can someone please confirm the number of grounds located on the right side of the engine (when facing the engine bay). I think I remember disconnecting a 3rd one located further back on the right side of the engine but now that I think about it I don't remember installing it back. I remember seeing a threaded hole for a 10mm bolt and when fully assembled I was able to bolt a 10mm bracket which was missing a bolt when I started the job. Could a disconnected ground cause a multiple misfire? I won't be able to check this until Saturday

05-04-2015, 07:47 PM	#21
KTS Drives: Vitz RS Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Trinidad and Tobago Posts: 272	There are two 10mm bolts for grounds by the coolant and cam sensors.

05-04-2015, 07:51 PM	#22
tmontague View User's Garage Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Caledonia Ont. Posts: 2,938	Yes, I installed those. Is there not one by itself further behind those 2 grounds that are above and below each other? It is tougher to see with all of the wires there but that is where I have an open 10mm bolt hole and an extra 10mm bolt

05-04-2015, 08:29 PM	#23
Bluevitz-rs 1NZ-6spd View User's Garage Drives: '05 6-Spd Vitz RS Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,967	I sent you a PM. I can send you pictures from my phone and iPod if you get me your email. The Yaris has a different electrical system than the Echo.

05-04-2015, 11:09 PM	#24
tmontague View User's Garage Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Caledonia Ont. Posts: 2,938	Pm sent, thanks

05-08-2015, 12:00 PM	#25
tmontague View User's Garage Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Caledonia Ont. Posts: 2,938	I'll be checking all the electrical connectors tomorrow and re connecting any loose grounds. I'm also checking the coil packs and plugs by putting them in the Yaris and seeing if they have an issue. If this fails then I have a feeling I made a mistake when installing the head gasket. I torqued down the bolts but forgot to oil the threads. I also didn't check that the product number was in the correct spot. I'm thinking that this may be the reason for the white smoke near the exhaust manifold which could mean coolant is fouling the plugs. I'll post back here and keep the thread updated, i'm hoping it's a simple coil pack or electrical issue.

05-08-2015, 04:57 PM	#26
tmontague View User's Garage Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Caledonia Ont. Posts: 2,938	just quickly checked the spark plug today after work. They are all black and covered in the black soot and smell like gasoline. Does this mean anything knew other than the car not firing leading to buildup of fuel in the cylinder? I'm thinking I improperly installed the head gasket and now the coolant is getting in the cylinder causing it not to start. Does the current plug condition lead away from this diagnosis or is it current with a head gasket issue?

05-09-2015, 12:28 PM	#27
tmontague View User's Garage Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Caledonia Ont. Posts: 2,938	The coil packs and plug from the Echo ran perfectly fine in my Yaris. So ruled those out. Did a compression test in the echo, results were: C1: 150psi C2: 175psi C3: 130psi C4: 175psi So no valve issue causing no compression. Likely have bad rings on cylinder 3 but i'm not concerned about as it has 350,000km on it. Now I'm going to re install the head gasket perfectly as I think it is leaking causing the issue. Let's see if I can get it done in under 7 hrs

05-09-2015, 09:53 PM	#28
tmontague View User's Garage Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Caledonia Ont. Posts: 2,938	new update. The head gasket is installed correctly and the timing is perfect. The car is turning over great but it won't catch. I have narrowed it down to a fuel issue due to the following: When the key is turned to ignition, a weird buzz/beep is heard coming from the fuel rail (used a screwdriver to my ear to tell). The buzz goes away when the EFI relay is removed, the key it turned off from ignition or is I open up the throttle. The car does not smell like fuel after trying to start is so the engine is not getting flooded. I swapped relays and the same problem persists so it is not the fuel pump relay and the fuse is still fine. Does any one else have any recommendations on what to look for or what the noise could mean? Is there any other fuses or electrical things I can check that relate to the fuel system? I am so close to getting the car to fire back up again and am really hoping to get it started soon. Thanks

05-09-2015, 10:43 PM	#29
Bluevitz-rs 1NZ-6spd View User's Garage Drives: '05 6-Spd Vitz RS Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,967	The buzzing might actually be the idle air speed controller. It operates off a duty cycle and could be making that noise. It would also explain why the buzzing stops when you. Open the throttle.

05-09-2015, 11:19 PM	#30
tmontague View User's Garage Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Caledonia Ont. Posts: 2,938	As in you think it went bad? Would a bad IASC cause a no start? The odd thing is that the sounds of definitely heard from the fuel rail for sure

05-10-2015, 08:49 AM	#31
Bluevitz-rs 1NZ-6spd View User's Garage Drives: '05 6-Spd Vitz RS Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,967	No not in the warm weather. It should at least fire a couple times. Try cracking the throttle as you crank? Can you get a video of the sound?

05-10-2015, 09:12 AM	#32
tmontague View User's Garage Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Caledonia Ont. Posts: 2,938	I tried giving it gas while cranking as well as putting the pedal down to the floor, no change or start doing either. No gas smell so no flooding. I will get a video up asap. Next weekend i'll be removing the fuel line and cranking it to see if there is fuel from the pump. If I can't get it figured out in a couple weeks then i'll get CAA to tow it to my mechanic and hope he can tell me what's wrong with it. I was hoping someone knew what that constant buzz would be. Does that happen if the fuel pump is toast? I'm thinking that the noise is the relay or something trying to get fuel to the injectors and since no fuel is getting there it keep trying. Are there any fuses or relays I should look for other than the obvious 2 in the engine bay? Is there a fuel cutoff located anywhere in the car that I could have tripped that I need to reset?

05-10-2015, 09:30 AM	#33
Bluevitz-rs 1NZ-6spd View User's Garage Drives: '05 6-Spd Vitz RS Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,967	It still sounds like you have a bad ground somewhere. Sent from my iPod Touch

05-10-2015, 10:22 AM	#35
tmontague View User's Garage Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Caledonia Ont. Posts: 2,938	I didn't sand them as they looked clean. There are only 2 grounds on the front of the drivers side of the engine and both are connected. I checked and re checked for other grounds and there were none. I cleaned and put dielectric grease on the cam position sensor connector. Odd thing is, there were no issues with grounds prior to working on the car and they are clean. I'm going to first check if there is fuel when the ignition is turned on to rule out fuel pump.

05-11-2015, 06:30 PM	#36
tmontague View User's Garage Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Caledonia Ont. Posts: 2,938	Update: Went to check the fuel pressure and checked the spark before just to make sure. Sure enough, no spark at any of the plugs. Tried the coils and plugs from my Yaris and still no spark. Is there a an ignition fuse I can check. What else should I check that could cause no spark when the coil packs and plugs are fine?