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Old 03-14-2007, 09:29 PM   #1
ChinoCharles
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1NZ port & polish

Ah, the famed port and polish. It is usually a step taken towards the end, but lets assume for a second I had this done on my car right now.

Forget about price... don't sit here and say how the expense isn't worth the gains. A port and polish can run over a thousand dollars alone... this isn't something a lot of people will end up doing to a 1NZ.

My question is assuming a 1NZ was ported, what would happen? I know literally nothing about this... its supposed to net gains, and likely more with a tune like any part. What I am wondering is what do you have to worry about when tuning a car with a P&P? What will happen to timing, air/fuel, engine temps, horsepower... give me (us) an idea.
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Old 03-14-2007, 10:26 PM   #2
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i think it depends upon what your port and polishing. most common is the intake manifold and that seems to be a problem for us lol. next is your throttle body but then you need a larger butterfly. those are the only 2 i know of....
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Old 03-14-2007, 10:36 PM   #3
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If you did a port and polish to your car as it sits now, the results would be less dramatic than adding a lightened crank pulley.

For all intents and purposes, the intake is already done, as it is smooth plastic. Cleaning the throttle body up, gasket matching the intake and exhaust, cleaning up the ports and doing a bowl blend won't net you too much. Definately less than 5 HP.

Last edited by largeorangefont; 03-14-2007 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 03-14-2007, 10:39 PM   #4
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Think about it this way - what gains do you get by freeing up flow with an intake or exhaust? A PP job will have the same sort of effect as it's also just about increasing air flow as well.

Bottom line is it'll kill your low down torque, but increase HP at high RPM.

The question is: is it really worthwhile? I mean the 1NZ-FE bottom-end is not designed to be a high revving powerhouse, in fact it's optimized to be pretty much the opposite. So tweaking/tuning this engine for high RPM performance (with a stock bottom end) will quickly get to the point of little to no net gains IMHO.

Now if you're thinking about forced induction and rebuliding the bottom end, that's a different story! But I would definately be working on these before I'd even consider a PP job.

Many moons ago I was getting 200WHP from a Mazda B6 1.6L Turbo with 15PSI boost, a monster air-air intercooler, a 3" dump pipe through a cat-less system, and a 6" cold-air intake.. Porting and Polishing the heads and putting in custom grind cams (all done by a local rally team that ran the same car) lifted that to 242WHP, so a good 20% gain. BUT you'll notice that it was the last step taken - had this been done before any of the other mods it would have been a WOFTAM.
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Old 03-15-2007, 12:35 AM   #5
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Good reading:

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=67782
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:00 AM   #6
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That thread is legendary. Bet your ass I've seen it before. He made one huge mistake... that Camcon.

Bottom line, if you could have your heads ported for free, would you take it? Yes or no.

I'm not asking your warranty. I'm asking you.
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Old 03-15-2007, 02:12 AM   #7
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Free? sure, then I'd Ebay 'em :)
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Old 03-15-2007, 02:36 AM   #8
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Let me clarify that a little.. I'd Ebay them and put the money into the "2ZZ-GE engine swap fund".

From everything I've learnt about this engine in the past 2+ years (my last car was a 1NZ-FE as well), it takes mega bucks to make minimal gains.

Our resident sticker guy and all-round good fella eTiMaGo tells me we can get 2ZZ-GE's retrofitted into our Yarii by TRD Thailand for ~100K Baht (USD $2850). Given that the 2ZZ-GE makes 180HP stock, by the time it's in a Yaris with a custom mandrel bent exhaust and intake we should be looking at 200+HP.

There's nothing you can do to a 1NZ-FE for that money that would get remotely close, plus you've got the headroom for forced induction and other mods (if your mother dropped you on your head as a baby, and 200HP in a tiny FWD egg isn't enough)

Anyways, you can see where my thoughts are at

If I could get 4WD and a DSG box to go with a 2ZZ-GE for this thing, I'd order it all tomorrow - along with some blowage, 'cause that'd be a fuckin fun car.
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Old 03-15-2007, 02:48 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eTiMaGo View Post
That was a really good read in fact - thanks!

Kinda confirms everything I've learnt from anecdotal reports with some hard facts for a change. Too bad you have to sift through all the replies to get to the meaty bits though - a blog would've been awesome.

If you're thinking about tweaking out your Yaris, reading that thread is a must!
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Old 03-15-2007, 04:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinoCharles View Post
That thread is legendary. Bet your ass I've seen it before. He made one huge mistake... that Camcon.

Bottom line, if you could have your heads ported for free, would you take it? Yes or no.

I'm not asking your warranty. I'm asking you.
who could refuse a free head job?
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Old 03-15-2007, 05:03 AM   #11
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who could refuse a free head job?
Well, there's a few girls I've seen who might give you second thoughts about that I'm pretty sure it's free too
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Old 03-15-2007, 05:05 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razr View Post
If I could get 4WD and a DSG box to go with a 2ZZ-GE for this thing, I'd order it all tomorrow - along with some blowage, 'cause that'd be a fuckin fun car.
Amen... You could get the transmission and AWD system off an older Celica GT Four, though I have no idea if it'll mate to a 2ZZ... so how about a 3S-GTE Yaris?
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Old 03-15-2007, 05:07 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razr View Post
Well, there's a few girls I've seen who might give you second thoughts about that I'm pretty sure it's free too
Isn't that what paper bags were invented for?

(it's official, I am going to Hell, or will be reborn as a cockroach)
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Old 03-15-2007, 05:34 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by eTiMaGo View Post
Amen... You could get the transmission and AWD system off an older Celica GT Four, though I have no idea if it'll mate to a 2ZZ... so how about a 3S-GTE Yaris?
They do have a 4WD 1.3 litre NCP91 Vitz in Japan, though I have no idea how you will get your hands on it. There's all your needed bits right there.
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Old 03-15-2007, 06:00 AM   #15
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Could have difficulties lining up a decent 3S-GTE these days, AFAIK they've been out of production for 8+ years now? been a while since Ive seen a GT-4 or MR2, so could be wrong :)

I was thinking more along the lines of the 4WD system from the 1.3L JDM model, and of course DSG is just a pipe dream - the only Jap brand I know of that's even hinted at one is Honda in the concept/proposed 5dr Civic Type-R :(

Last edited by Razr; 03-15-2007 at 06:21 AM.
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Old 03-15-2007, 06:01 AM   #16
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snap! err.. wtf :(
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Old 03-15-2007, 06:17 AM   #17
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With the right combination of luck and skill you might be able to import just the front end from a crashed car from japan if it can't be found locally... I have a friend in Krabi who's looking into that, to get a VQ30DE for his Cefiro, I think they quoted something like 30,000B for the engine.

Anyway look into the UK-based Fensport Celica, it's amazing work, they took a latest generation Celica and transplanted the engine and drivetrain from an older GT-4. 650hp or so to all four wheels, nothing to laugh at
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Old 03-15-2007, 08:08 AM   #18
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OK, I can't read the Scion thread at work because it's blocked, so here's my experience with porting and polishing a head.

And Chino Charles, you are correct in that a P&P is, typically, one of the final steps, and is usually done to compliment your bolt-on power adders- but I'll help you out.

Standing alone, a P&P will gain very little- 15hp is realistic on our little engine- and that's with a very good, thorough job done on a flow bench including valve angles and fuel atomizing dimples.

Now, here is where it gets fun- adding very little to that, we can see much bigger gains- with just I/H/E, cams w/adjustable sprockets (springs and retainers, as well, by default), a fuel pump and injectors (a better fuel pump and AFR wouldn't hurt, either), and a piggyback. With these add-ons, and a dyno-tuner that knows what he is doing, you can make some really great horsepower and torque.

Cliffs?

You can P&P your heart out, but it all comes down to what else you have, and tuning, tuning, TUNING.
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