Clutch shudder when setting off in 1st gear

[Thirty-Nine]

Originally Posted by why?

I just hate the Yaris' clutch. Way too light and just horrible. You definately need to rev it more in first gear than any other car i've driven. I can't tell you how many times I've stalled it... grrr.

Wow--I haven't seen you around here in a long time!

Anyway, I just hope that the clutch shudder does not become a problem with durability. The reason I got rid of my 2005 Scion xB was because of clutch issues (throw out bearing replaced three times).

To me, I guess the reverse gear is actually more of an issue than 1st. No matter what or when, it chatters like crazy, unless you gun it ... not great going backwards. Well, not usually.

[AmyV]

See, I never have a problem with stalling or anything. I am kinda known for flying in my Yaris... even from a dead stop. I get a shudder, feels like tire shudder or maybe even a rev limiter kicking in, but I'm not high enough to have that!!! I usually let my foot off the gas for a quick second and everything 'catches up' and evens out. I've had the car for more than 34k miles. Did it from day 1, still does it now. Don't know if that is the same problem that any of you guys have been having.

Overall, doesn't bother me too much though.

And I guess I am a lucky one... no probs in reverse.

[AlexNet0]

Originally Posted by scape

my car is a pain to put in reverse, very unforgiving compared to any other gear; even at complete standstill it sometimes won't drop into gear properly, or worse if I'm rolling even an inch you hear it scratch and chatter as it engages. once it is engaged, it's fine and dandy and feels solid.
in the morning, my first gear is very loosey goosey and does not grab well, but what I think the OP is experiencing is that the clutch not being fully engaged into position, and what's happening is probably slipping as you rev out expecting it to catch. I ride first gear partially engaged for a second or two, which seems to help (and I don't rev out hard unless I know it's fully engaged, and you'll know because if it isn't it will chatter and shudder like that or you'll have seemingly less pickup and smell hell for the next few minutes).

try putting it in 1st gear first, then going to reverse.

[BuildCode]

I know the reverse shudder you guys are talking about, but this is totally different :)

I'm not sure how to better describe it, but I haven't had it happen at all now that I learned how to drive Yaris-Stick-Shift®, It's re-assuring to see so many people notice this at least sometimes!

[Wattz]

Clutches are designed with slippage in mind. If that is not built into the car then the designers weren't thinking far enough ahead.

Dumping the clutch is a shock to the rest of the drive train. The initial (breakaway) torque is much higher and stresses the components down the line. When initial torque is low (ie. when you feather the clutch) the stress on the passive drive train components is much lower.

You should really be trying to make your ride as smooth as possible, since that is what modern passenger vehicles are designed for. That means feathering the clutch into 1st, probably 2nd, and also probably 3rd. 4th and 5th gears tend to be at such a high ratio (>1) that they don't put much load on the engine.

All that aside, my 3rd gear requires a bit more force to shift into than all of the other gears (except reverse.) 1, 2, 4, and 5 pretty much slide right in, but 3rd requires more of a push to put it there. I bought the car used, so I'm hoping that it's just a quirk and not something that the previous owner did.

[tomato]

Hey, Wattz, welcome to the forum!!

I bought mine used, too, with 55K miles; 2d, 3rd, 4th and 5th are PERFECT (knock on wood). First is a pain, real stiff, especially first thing in the morning.

Here is an article on clutch control in Wikipedia, in case anyone is interested.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clutch_control

[fastscutr]

I had the same clutch shutter develop at around 17k miles. Dealer "couldn't reproduce the issue". 20k miles, shutter went away, turned into slippage when under throttle alone. Brought it into the dealer ready for a big battle (they were much better about it this time around). Turns out there is a faulty seal in the tranny which leaks oil into the bell housing - clutch and flywheel destroyed. Toyota knows about this issue, the replacement seal is a different one (and requires tranny to be pulled apart to replace). Clutch shuttering is not normal, bring your car in and make them fix it. I just hope the new seal holds up, its almost a $2k repair bill at the dealership if out of warranty

[BuildCode]

Originally Posted by fastscutr

I had the same clutch shutter develop at around 17k miles. Dealer "couldn't reproduce the issue". 20k miles, shutter went away, turned into slippage when under throttle alone. Brought it into the dealer ready for a big battle (they were much better about it this time around). Turns out there is a faulty seal in the tranny which leaks oil into the bell housing - clutch and flywheel destroyed. Toyota knows about this issue, the replacement seal is a different one (and requires tranny to be pulled apart to replace). Clutch shuttering is not normal, bring your car in and make them fix it. I just hope the new seal holds up, its almost a $2k repair bill at the dealership if out of warranty

Wow interesting. I will keep that in mind if it shudders any more. I have less than 4,000 miles on my Yaris, and the extended warranty, so for now I'm safe Thank you for the heads up

[toast]

Originally Posted by fastscutr

I had the same clutch shutter develop at around 17k miles. Dealer "couldn't reproduce the issue". 20k miles, shutter went away, turned into slippage when under throttle alone. Brought it into the dealer ready for a big battle (they were much better about it this time around). Turns out there is a faulty seal in the tranny which leaks oil into the bell housing - clutch and flywheel destroyed. Toyota knows about this issue, the replacement seal is a different one (and requires tranny to be pulled apart to replace). Clutch shuttering is not normal, bring your car in and make them fix it. I just hope the new seal holds up, its almost a $2k repair bill at the dealership if out of warranty

This is interesting. Were you also noticing tranny fluid leak or not?

[fastscutr]

Originally Posted by toast

This is interesting. Were you also noticing tranny fluid leak or not?

nope, it seemed to be isolated in the bell housing - unfortunately means dopping the tranny to check. At first I thought it was just being difficult because of the varying throttle response, but then realized it was all clutch. The service manager had seen so few manuals, he was unaware of the issue. He heard about it after contacting some regional rep sorta person guy.

When I got the car back, it felt more solid than when I first bought the car. New clutch engagement point was right at the floor, seemed a little weird, but felt like all the power was getting to the wheels. Now, a few weeks later, the engagement point is quite a bit higher and feels like a more "normal" engagement point. Not sure if this shift is normal break in for a new clutch or if its a bad sign of things to come. I sure hope it's the former.

ooon look, a vomit emoticon, neaT



EDIT: Forgot to mention, this was a definite clutch shudder with throttle applied, not the shaking one feels when bogging the engine down by not providing enough throttle

[Thirty-Nine]

Wow, this is very interesting. Perhaps I will bring the 'ol Yaris in afterall.

Honestly, it makes me a little gunshy. My 2005 xB had transmission issues. Throwout bearing went at 28,000 miles. Clutch was slipping, too. I ended up having the t/o bearing replaced three times, new clutch, new bell housing. Total time at the dealership was about 3-5 weeks. This is why I ended up trading it in on the Yaris.

[BuildCode]

Originally Posted by fastscutr

EDIT: Forgot to mention, this was a definite clutch shudder with throttle applied, not the shaking one feels when bogging the engine down by not providing enough throttle

Yep, exactly, this is what I think I had a hard time explaining in this thread lol, you know what I'm talking about!

[2009BBPliftback]

Just give it the full beans it won't shudder!

[SilverGlow]

Burnt clutch, warped pressure plate....this studdering can happen....often caused by new drivers of manual trannys, or anyone that does not know how to shift properly.

[2009BBPliftback]

I've never had any issues with any of the 3 manual transmission toyota's I've owned my 87 mr2 is still good. I put 65k on my first gen xB and 6k on my yaris. They all have performed well without incident.

[Thirty-Nine]

Originally Posted by SilverGlow

Burnt clutch, warped pressure plate....this studdering can happen....often caused by new drivers of manual trannys, or anyone that does not know how to shift properly.

Well, I've been driving nothing but manual transmission cars for more than 15 years, and have never had any clutch issues other than my xB and the shuddering problem with the Yaris.

I will probably take the car in this week and see what my local dealer has to say. FYI, I have 23,500 miles on my Yaris; warranty ends in August.

[fastscutr]

Originally Posted by 2009BBPliftback

Just give it the full beans it won't shudder!

agreed, nice complete slippage, shudder requires it to grip a little

[Zaphod]

Originally Posted by BuildCode

I know the reverse shudder you guys are talking about, but this is totally different :)

I'm not sure how to better describe it, but I haven't had it happen at all now that I learned how to drive Yaris-Stick-Shift®, It's re-assuring to see so many people notice this at least sometimes!

LoL ... my experience as well.