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Old 03-05-2017, 07:34 PM   #19
miiser
 
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Sound-speaker guru needed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by David C View Post
I'm not an audio engineer, so I won't try to argue on your speciality. I agree with you that you can only get better sound by using better speakers, that's a fact.

As you pointed, if your end goal isn't to reach a nice and deep sound experience inside your car (boomy and clear, without going crazy expensive or comp level), then swapping two of the 4 doors speakers with mid bass ones and wiring them in parallel with the front speakers to help drive them to a better output level (if desired/needed) and using the front door speakers as mid range, and tweeter up front, then properly tweaking the signal sent to each speaker by using the head unit settings and physical crossovers could get you a nice sound for cheap. However you may not be able to recreate that level of sound clarity when you start driving on the free way due to road noise and poorly sound proofing of the Yaris. Even with my setup you can start loosing some of the end of both high and low range with you drive past 100km/h. That's why sound proofing would help a lot too.

Did you upgraded the door speaker wiring when you changed the speakers ?


No I didn't. I only changed the adapters to fit my new speakers. Should I change them? Will I have better results ? And how do I do that?
That what I thought about it too. I thought of putting the front new speakers to the rear and in the from I can pick a pair of components and place them there.
And then I will have to do smth with the soundproof. The noico sheets I found might do the work.
Also, is there any different between component speaker and the bass speakers? Or they are the same?


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Old 03-06-2017, 02:38 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David C View Post
I'm not an audio engineer, so I won't try to argue on your speciality. I agree with you that you can only get better sound by using better speakers, that's a fact.

As you pointed, if your end goal isn't to reach a nice and deep sound experience inside your car (boomy and clear, without going crazy expensive or comp level), then swapping two of the 4 doors speakers with mid bass ones and wiring them in parallel with the front speakers to help drive them to a better output level (if desired/needed) and using the front door speakers as mid range, and tweeter up front, then properly tweaking the signal sent to each speaker by using the head unit settings and physical crossovers could get you a nice sound for cheap. However you may not be able to recreate that level of sound clarity when you start driving on the free way due to road noise and poorly sound proofing of the Yaris. Even with my setup you can start loosing some of the end of both high and low range with you drive past 100km/h. That's why sound proofing would help a lot too.

Did you upgraded the door speaker wiring when you changed the speakers ?
Your recommended approach is certainly the better one overall, it's just a matter of how much you want to spend.

FYI in my 2nd gen Yaris I don't have any other front speakers apart from the two in the doors. So this is a somewhat different situation from the OP's car. I get lots of bass, and generally have to keep the bass control fairly low on the head unit. IMO having tweeters on the dashboard would improve top end presence that bit more. Having them project toward my knees, the way they are right now, isn't really ideal.

I haven't upgraded the stock Toyota speaker wires, as IMO that's quite unnecessary in this application. However, for my 100W RMS/channel home system, I use some huge fat speaker wires. :-)




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Old 03-06-2017, 03:23 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by tarkus View Post
Your recommended approach is certainly the better one overall, it's just a matter of how much you want to spend.

FYI in my 2nd gen Yaris I don't have any other front speakers apart from the two in the doors. So this is a somewhat different situation from the OP's car. I get lots of bass, and generally have to keep the bass control fairly low on the head unit. IMO having tweeters on the dashboard would improve top end presence that bit more. Having them project toward my knees, the way they are right now, isn't really ideal.

I haven't upgraded the stock Toyota speaker wires, as IMO that's quite unnecessary in this application. However, for my 100W RMS/channel home system, I use some huge fat speaker wires. :-)




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What speakers do you have? I mean the exact model if you remember it.
Your situation is different than mine. In your case you have 4 speakers on the front. Coaxials count as 2 each, cause they have build in tweeters in the middle of the speaker. So you have 2 mid bass (the speaker itself) and 2 highs (tweeters).
In my case I have 6 speakers in the front now. And 4 of them are tweeters (2 pillar tweeters and 2 on the speaker) and this eliminates all my bass. Tbo after a week of using them I really think they sound better that the beginning. Maybe I got used to it, but maybe when speakers are new they need some time to produce the proper sound.
Anyway, I don't believe that my speakers are bad. I searched for them before I bought them. And they had very good reviews.
I just need something to spice the sound even more. Guess I should have bought component speakers from the begging, but I am a newbie on the sound industry, so i am just learning and making my first steps. Plus I bought these cause they came up with adapters too, wirings etc, in a very good price.



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Old 03-06-2017, 04:16 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David C View Post
However you may not be able to recreate that level of sound clarity when you start driving on the free way due to road noise and poorly sound proofing of the Yaris. Even with my setup you can start loosing some of the end of both high and low range with you drive past 100km/h. That's why sound proofing would help a lot too.

I am really aware of the baaad stock soundproof. It was that hard for Toyota to do something better with the soundproof thing.. they just placed a soft tiny sheet of plastic and they just hoped for the best. I mean it's not an Aygo that it is designed for cheap. Yaris isn't an expensive car but it's not cheap either. I paid 16.000€ to buy mine here in Greece (I am the only owner I bought it new, I guess it's the terra edition)
My other car is a 2004 corolla HB and it's day night difference in soundproof.
For god shake Yaris designers. Cheap plastics and zero effort to soundproof this thing.

Yaris starts from 11.000€. I get that they have to make a cheap soundproof to keep the price down in the standard edition. But on terra they really have to make something better. Even Luna owners have the same soundproof with the standard edition. And they pay like close double the price.
It was hard to put power windows on the rear in terra. It was hard to place a damn button to disengage ESP. I searched for how to disengage and it is a procedure that takes 10 minutes. It's a combination of handbrake, clutch and brake and it's for test perpose only. And your dashboard becomes Christmas tree with the warnings that pop up. It was hard to place wiring harness for rear speakers. It was hard to soundproof the car.
The only thing that makes me proud is the zero issues whatsoever and I have made about 106.000 miles with it. (I had an Alfa years ago. You can guess how happy I am with a problem free car now)
I really want to know if they did better on the newer Yaris.




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Last edited by miiser; 03-06-2017 at 04:34 AM.
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Old 03-06-2017, 05:50 AM   #23
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I want to ask something else.
It might sound crazy but..
Can I plug a woofer from a home cinema in one of the front door's wirings? And then drive it under a seat and plug it to solve the bass issue?
Sorry If it's idiotic to ask



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Old 03-06-2017, 06:00 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miiser View Post
I want to ask something else.
It might sound crazy but..
Can I plug a woofer from a home cinema in one of the front door's wirings? And then drive it under a seat and plug it to solve the bass issue?
Sorry If it's idiotic to ask



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A home cinema speaker is still a speaker. As long as it have the same impedance (4 ohm) as your other speakers and that you can send enough power to it (either from an amp or if the woofer as a built in amp), it will work.


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Old 03-06-2017, 06:53 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David C View Post
A home cinema speaker is still a speaker. As long as it have the same impedance (4 ohm) as your other speakers and that you can send enough power to it (either from an amp or if the woofer as a built in amp), it will work.


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So to sum up, my headunit can handle another 2 speakers (2 in front, 2 tweeters in the pillar and 2 on the rear) as long as they are 4 ohms ?
That's the only thing I have to look for?

So this one will be fine?:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00LW...k6L&ref=plSrch

Or components like these and I can plug only the woofers? :

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0037...rb_top?ie=UTF8


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Old 03-06-2017, 01:24 PM   #26
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As I said, your head unit can output about 25w RMS per channel. So if you plug in a 300w RMS speaker, you'll only be able to drive it at a very low level. But if you plug in a 50w RMS speaker, then you'll be able to drive it to a much higher level, except that it won't be as powerful than driving a 300w speaker with a 300w amp. Bigger the magnet, more power needed to make it move the voice coil.


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Old 03-07-2017, 07:01 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David C View Post
As I said, your head unit can output about 25w RMS per channel. So if you plug in a 300w RMS speaker, you'll only be able to drive it at a very low level. But if you plug in a 50w RMS speaker, then you'll be able to drive it to a much higher level, except that it won't be as powerful than driving a 300w speaker with a 300w amp. Bigger the magnet, more power needed to make it move the voice coil.


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Ok. I don't plan to buy 300rms speakers anyways. The jvcs are about 30 rms each and the others I am planning to buy they won't be more that 50rms each.
So, about the rms I am ok as you say. I am just afraid that if I put more speakers I will blow the headunit. Because I will plug the rear speakers to the front speaker's wirings (front left to rear left front right to the rear right) so I will ask for the system to provide like 80rms per channel.
Also what about the ohms?
I know that jvcs are 4ohms. If I buy components I have to search for 4ohms too?

About the watts I don't care much about the overall power. I am not planning to make my car a club
I want a decent sound as cheap as possible.


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Old 03-07-2017, 08:14 AM   #28
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So after some searching on internet:

Option no1:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00IS...yKL&ref=plSrch

Option no2:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00BQ...F0L&ref=plSrch

(But these are 8ohms :/ )

Option no3:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00LW...s+speakers+6.5

(Price for 1, not pair)

Option no4:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0037...5ML&ref=plSrch

(Components) (maybe the best choice)

Option no5:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00OY...t+speakers+6.5

(Spiciest price)

Option no6:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B014X...t+speakers+6.5



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Old 03-07-2017, 01:31 PM   #29
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I'll check out your links later after work. To answer your questions :

You won't do any damage to the head unit if you plug in more powerful speakers, the head unit self regulate itself. However if you plug in a 10w speaker and drive it to the max of your head unit, you could damage it with high peaks of power. 30w to 50w speakers are great for running them straight from your head unit.

The ohms are the measure of your internal resistance of the speaker coil (impedance). The impedance stays the same in parallel, and defines the current based on the voltage. Stick with the same impedance for the speakers to avoid over or under driving each other.




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Old 03-07-2017, 07:02 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David C View Post
I'll check out your links later after work. To answer your questions :

You won't do any damage to the head unit if you plug in more powerful speakers, the head unit self regulate itself. However if you plug in a 10w speaker and drive it to the max of your head unit, you could damage it with high peaks of power. 30w to 50w speakers are great for running them straight from your head unit.

The ohms are the measure of your internal resistance of the speaker coil (impedance). The impedance stays the same in parallel, and defines the current based on the voltage. Stick with the same impedance for the speakers to avoid over or under driving each other.




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So if I understand correctly the only way to damage my headunit, is by putting really small speakers and put volume to the max? Cause u said about 10w. (U might wanted to write 100?) sorry for my miss understandings.

Have a good work and a good day. I will look forward to hear from you when you finish


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Old 03-07-2017, 11:02 PM   #31
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Sound-speaker guru needed!

You won't damage the head unit unless you short the wires. But you can damage low power speakers by sending them too much power. I didn't made a typo when I wrote 10w. I'm not a sound tech, thought I'm an electrician, so when it comes to electrons, I know my business.

Think of your speaker as a light. The more powerful the speaker, the higher voltage it's rated for. So a big speaker will be very bright if you send it enough power, but will appear dim with moderate power (such as the one your head unit can put out), while a medium sized speaker will appear bright, but won't light up much of a room, but it's max voltage isn't less than what your head unit can output. Then a small speaker will just burn out if you send it too much voltage (like trying to send 9v on a 6v light bulb, it will be extremely bright for a short period of time then burn out). Since the speaker have a fixed impedance, when you crank the volume knob, the current stays the same, but the voltage rises. Since power = voltage * current, voltage = current*impedance and current = square root of (power/impedance), you can use those formula to determine the power wire sizing and then to find out how much voltage the head unit can send out to your speakers only by knowing the max power output of the head unit and the speaker impedance.

Use speakers rated with minimum as much power as your head unit can output per channel and you'll be fine. Then to have the optimal effect, try to stay close to that maximum rating, otherwise you'll have to play the music with the volume all the way up all the time, which isn't good for the radio (it's like trying to drive your car on 10" tires, your engine will have to rev like crazy all the time, it'll work, but will shorten it's lifespan quickly).


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Old 03-08-2017, 08:49 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by David C View Post
You won't damage the head unit unless you short the wires. But you can damage low power speakers by sending them too much power. I didn't made a typo when I wrote 10w. I'm not a sound tech, thought I'm an electrician, so when it comes to electrons, I know my business.

Think of your speaker as a light. The more powerful the speaker, the higher voltage it's rated for. So a big speaker will be very bright if you send it enough power, but will appear dim with moderate power (such as the one your head unit can put out), while a medium sized speaker will appear bright, but won't light up much of a room, but it's max voltage isn't less than what your head unit can output. Then a small speaker will just burn out if you send it too much voltage (like trying to send 9v on a 6v light bulb, it will be extremely bright for a short period of time then burn out). Since the speaker have a fixed impedance, when you crank the volume knob, the current stays the same, but the voltage rises. Since power = voltage * current, voltage = current*impedance and current = square root of (power/impedance), you can use those formula to determine the power wire sizing and then to find out how much voltage the head unit can send out to your speakers only by knowing the max power output of the head unit and the speaker impedance.

Use speakers rated with minimum as much power as your head unit can output per channel and you'll be fine. Then to have the optimal effect, try to stay close to that maximum rating, otherwise you'll have to play the music with the volume all the way up all the time, which isn't good for the radio (it's like trying to drive your car on 10" tires, your engine will have to rev like crazy all the time, it'll work, but will shorten it's lifespan quickly).


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Ok it makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. Nice examples.
Did you found any free time to check the links?


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Old 03-08-2017, 01:08 PM   #33
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Ok it makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. Nice examples.
Did you found any free time to check the links?


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I'll do in a few hours once I'm done on the jobsite.


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Old 03-08-2017, 03:00 PM   #34
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I'll do in a few hours once I'm done on the jobsite.


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Thank you I will wait for you.
Also, if I choose to buy the components, can I plug only the woofers, and for tweeters keep the stocks? Or it might affect the sound?


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Old 03-08-2017, 08:24 PM   #35
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I've checked your links and I'd go with any of them, I think they would all be an upgraded to any stock speaker in a Yaris. However if you're considering spending up to $70 USD on a pair of speakers, I'd go with Alpine, Rockford Fostgate, Polk Audio, Clarion, etc

Be very careful about the speakers being sold single or in pair, it's often very confusing, so don't go only by the pictures, but with the title, description, reviews and questions. You can also ask Amazon Live Chat to check if they're sold single or in pair.
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Old 03-09-2017, 04:08 AM   #36
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I've checked your links and I'd go with any of them, I think they would all be an upgraded to any stock speaker in a Yaris. However if you're considering spending up to $70 USD on a pair of speakers, I'd go with Alpine, Rockford Fostgate, Polk Audio, Clarion, etc

Be very careful about the speakers being sold single or in pair, it's often very confusing, so don't go only by the pictures, but with the title, description, reviews and questions. You can also ask Amazon Live Chat to check if they're sold single or in pair.


I did look for single or pairs and also I looked many reviews for all of them. However, the main question is: should I go for components? Or for mid bass speakers?
What suits my needs better?
Also you mentioned some brands. But you didn't mentioned kenwood. Did you had any bad experience with them?
Finally, if I buy comps and I plug only the woofers to the splitters and keep for tweeters the stocks in the pillars, will it be alright ?
And I guess all of the speakers in the link are compatible with my headunit right? Can it handle them?
Thank you for your help. I appreciate it


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