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Old 04-02-2007, 11:43 AM   #19
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[QUOTE=Kaotic Lazagna;69908]
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lol...i use Tide for the most part. that was when i was gettin 36-38 mpg. then i switched to All, and i got 39 mpg. really tho...this happened...but there better be no connection or else imma go crazy!
hahaha, DAMN! i gotta stop using that costco shit and start getting some brand name laundry detergent! maybe if i use fabric softener, my sienna will get hybrid-like numbers...hmmmm...

--B
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Old 04-02-2007, 11:49 AM   #20
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[QUOTE=fu_im_from_texas;69779]
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Originally Posted by Kaotic Lazagna

can anyone tell my why i was able to get better gas mileage with premium?QUOTE]

This post has gotten

I think your mpg fluctuated because of other factors. A change in temp could cause the tire pressure to change by 10% resulting in better/worse mpg. Maybe you did more city driving? More passengers = more weight, less mpg...

Bottom line, you experianced higher mpg on this tank of gas which could be indepandant of the octane rating. mpg is affected by so many factors, you may never know excatly why that tank was slightly better.

back off topic, engine knock and predetonation are two terms for the same thing...

Your conclusions that you get better gas milage with premium is VERY UNSCIENTIFIC....profoundly subject to massive error. You drive one time, or one tank and you make such silly conclusions? You can drive the same exact route 10 times, and your milage will vary from time to time because you will drive the car differently, too many variables change, temperature outside, number of red/green lights, how fast you drive, etc...don't over simplify this issue so much!

The fact is, your car is engineered for 87 octane, and to use higher will NOT provide better gas milage, and in fact will show LESS milage.

There is this dillusion all over the net that using premium in a car engineered for regular is better. This is an old wive's tale, and urban myth.

Using premium in your Yaris actual can make it have LESS POWER, lower MPG, and run with less pep. Many believe (I do too) that running too high an Octane will shorten the life of your engine because it is not tuned for higher octane, and this could introduce incomplete combustion, and detonation, which stresses the engine and over time will shorten it's life.

Don't fall into this bullshit thinking....your car runs the best with 87 octane, and it gets the best MPG with 87....don't get sucked into this thinking that spending more $$ for premium is good for your car, better for MPG, and makes it more powerful...this is all a myth.

For our Yaris, HIGH octane = lower power, less MPG.

And engine knock and detonation are the same things....nothing to do with rods, old engines, etc....
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Old 04-02-2007, 12:46 PM   #21
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all you need to know is 87 octane burn faster than premium.. although you are paying more on premium ur actually running more km as well..so overall premium is a way to go.abit cleaner than 87...now going 94 aint worth it unless you adj ur timing..

Last edited by marcus; 04-02-2007 at 12:46 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 04-02-2007, 12:49 PM   #22
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[QUOTE=Spades;69789]
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It is on topic...explaining how octane works answers the question. Your better MPG was a result of another factor and is completely seperate from fuels octane.

P.S. the actual term for Predetonation is called "Pinging"...not knocking...a knock normally refers to a rod or valvetrain noise...course...predetonation, bad lifter, rod knock, piston slap...all the same thing, right?
However, when an incorrect fuel is used- i.e., a car requires 93 octane and you use 87, the vehicle's knock sensor can be heard over time. Our car does have a knock sensor, and if it were activated, you would hear, literally, a knocking- not the engine, but the sensor itself. It is a product of the engine having to adjust timing radically to use a lower octane gasoline. The first time someone radically tunes a Yaris without adjusting the air fuel ratio, they will likely hear a knocking- the knock sensor.

Pinging is heard when there is premature detonation, and also when all fuel is not being burned. Folks that use nitrous or turbo without changing spark plugs
often hear pinging.

Will you hear knocking when using 93 octane in a Yaris? Nope.
Will you hear knocking when using 87 octane in a Lexus ES330? Yup.
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Old 04-02-2007, 01:00 PM   #23
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[QUOTE=static808;69915]
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Originally Posted by Kaotic Lazagna View Post

hahaha, DAMN! i gotta stop using that costco shit and start getting some brand bame laundry detergent! maybe if i use fabric softener, my sienna will get hybrid-like numbers...hmmmm...

--B
oh yeah, i use fabric softener too! it's the one in the clear, navy blue bottle...

okay, i'm getting off topic in my own thread. heh.
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Old 04-02-2007, 01:10 PM   #24
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[QUOTE=Pavel Olavich;69923]
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Originally Posted by fu_im_from_texas View Post


Your conclusions that you get better gas milage with premium is VERY UNSCIENTIFIC....profoundly subject to massive error. You drive one time, or one tank and you make such silly conclusions? You can drive the same exact route 10 times, and your milage will vary from time to time because you will drive the car differently, too many variables change, temperature outside, number of red/green lights, how fast you drive, etc...don't over simplify this issue so much!

The fact is, your car is engineered for 87 octane, and to use higher will NOT provide better gas milage, and in fact will show LESS milage.

There is this dillusion all over the net that using premium in a car engineered for regular is better. This is an old wive's tale, and urban myth.

Using premium in your Yaris actual can make it have LESS POWER, lower MPG, and run with less pep. Many believe (I do too) that running too high an Octane will shorten the life of your engine because it is not tuned for higher octane, and this could introduce incomplete combustion, and detonation, which stresses the engine and over time will shorten it's life.

Don't fall into this bullshit thinking....your car runs the best with 87 octane, and it gets the best MPG with 87....don't get sucked into this thinking that spending more $$ for premium is good for your car, better for MPG, and makes it more powerful...this is all a myth.

For our Yaris, HIGH octane = lower power, less MPG.

And engine knock and detonation are the same things....nothing to do with rods, old engines, etc....

i don't believe that premium bullshit one bit. i just decided to run some premium through my tank. and i know it wasn't scientific, but i was merely just telling you guys something. i never said anything about "oh i got so and so mpg with premium, YOU ALL SHOULD START USING PREMIUM!" and i know that variables change with every drive, but i kept all the factors that i can control the same.

and i know that the Yaris was engineered for regular (87) gas. it's a friggin' econo car. who would make an economic car that requires premium gas?

i've seen tests regarding different grades of fuel, and the results were that basically, "if your car will appreciate the higher grade, then it'll get a few more hp".
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Old 04-02-2007, 01:12 PM   #25
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Consumer reports ranked Costco brand Kirkland’s "liquid" laundry detergent number 1 and tide number 2.. FYI.
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Old 04-02-2007, 01:13 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by ChinoCharles View Post
Screw all of you, I'm going to make the 20 minute drive up to Ravenna and grab some 105 octane. I'll let you know what happens.
are you really going to do this? i wouldn't, but if you have the money...lend me some. hahaha. j/k.
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Old 04-02-2007, 01:19 PM   #27
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Consumer reports ranked Costco brand Kirkland’s "liquid" laundry detergent number 1 and tide number 2.. FYI.
hmmm, i forgot to get detergent when i last went there, that's why i had to buy All...next time i go grocery shopping again at Costco.
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Old 04-02-2007, 01:23 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by marcus View Post
all you need to know is 87 octane burn faster than premium.. although you are paying more on premium ur actually running more km as well..so overall premium is a way to go.abit cleaner than 87...now going 94 aint worth it unless you adj ur timing..
i'm still not getting premium because even if it does help increase mpg, which i never thought it did, it's not worth it imo.

we use premium once in a while in our cars, and every time we do, it gets less mpg. in my dad's Camry, it decreased the mpg by 2 or 3. when i had my GTI, it really decreased it. in fact, the best mpg i got with the GTI, i used Safeway gas.
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Old 04-02-2007, 02:57 PM   #29
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I know brand is off topic, but be carefull filling up at those grocery store chain gas stations. There is a reason their gas is so cheap.

P.S. I agree by all means Moose...low octane in a boosted or high compression car is bad news...I was hoping my post implied that. My whole goal was to get people to understand what octane rating meant.

P.S.P.S. I do not belive that higher octane fuel burns cleaner and has less emissions than 87 does in a 106hp car... the reason is because while the higher octane fuel is normally better quality and may have more addatives, the fact that your little engine is trying to compensate for the delayed ignition ussally means it will be polluting more, and ussually the car without boost or high compression will not be able to burn all the fuel completely since it was ignited a split second later than it should have beem. I have never seen a cars window sticker reccomending what octane to use for best gas milage...wierd.

And Marcus, that is some retarded logic. 87 octane does not "burn faster" than premium, it just ignites slower, the burn process takes the same amount of time, your engine does not speed up or slow down. All premium does in your econbox is ignite slower, leaving more deposits in the engine. The engine will not magically gain more RPM's or torque and all of the sudden move slower or faster based on the octane rating. It is NOT cleaner than 87 octane, even with the added detergants most places put in their 92, your engine isn't meant to run it so it will pollute more.

Oh, and screwing with the timing on a stock car is for honda boys that want to f-ck up their 89 civic.
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Old 04-02-2007, 03:12 PM   #30
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I tried the premium thing... it seemed to help most on the top end.. but nothing amazing. MPG seemed to be better when driven harder... but under normal conditions, no difference.

shell 87 for me, seems to be the most consistent gas.

More than octane - WHERE you buy your gas seems to make the biggest difference.
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Old 04-02-2007, 03:43 PM   #31
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I'm just an old toad but.......Higher compression does make more power thus better gas milage. Without computers on our engines 9:1 compression is about tops for 87 octane, the ECU is the only thing keeping the engine from self distruction at 10.5:1 by adjusting the timing because of the detonation sensor feedback. With better octane the timing can be advanced to a much more efficient state thus getting better millage and power.

An example is back in the early seventies gas crisis...one group modified a Pinto to try to improve milage. Through the use of another cam, increasing compression from 9:1 to 12:1, and using water injection to reduce detonation (research water/alcohol injection in combination with turbo/super charging) they increased horsepower 50% and milage went from 30 to 45 on a controlled track. Now 12:1 is pretty extreme but as long as you can control detonation (water injection) you can set your timing to take advantage of this. No ECU's back then, now we do! Now we have the ECU setting our timing through detonation sensors to the optimum setting for efficiency (we maybe could run 87 octane at 10:1 compression but without the real world timing adjustments done by an ECU, performance would be crap).

In other words due to the ECU adjusting timing in real time, YES you should get better gas milage and performance with higher octane fuel !!!!! Does it pay to use premium? If you get 3% gain in milage and premium is 2% more cost than 87 octane go for it because performance increases also. I don't have a scangauge yet, but I'd go by the facts before the myth that higher octane doesn't help. Computers have really changed the word since the 70's.

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Old 04-02-2007, 03:47 PM   #32
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I forgot to add...the Yaris was designed to run on 87 octane for the convenience of the consumer ....that doesn't meen that higher octane isn't better when the computer adjusts for it!!!
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Old 04-02-2007, 03:59 PM   #33
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If you get 3% gain in milage and premium is 2% more cost than 87 octane go for it because performance increases also.
this is where the problem lies for many of us: premium gas is usually 7-10% more expensive than regular. and i dont think we'll see a 7-10% in performance or mpg, so from a strictly economical standpoint, its not worth it.

--B
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Old 04-02-2007, 04:38 PM   #34
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I'll agree it probably isn't for the milage people but for the lead foots...maybe!! I like the idea of the scangauge just to check...maybe after Uncle Sam gets his hand out of my pocket this month I'll be able to afford one.



I rethought this and looked at the Minnesota gas (which is all 10%ethanol) prices tonight are $2.59 reg and $2.61 prem. ....so premium is 0.8% more costly than regular-----so 'if' my mpg went from 37 to 37.3 it is worth putting in premium!!!!......I'm going to try the extra 2 cents and won't wait for the scangauge

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Old 04-02-2007, 07:47 PM   #35
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prices tonight are $2.59 reg and $2.61 prem. ....so premium is 0.8% more costly than regular-----so 'if' my mpg went from 37 to 37.3 it is worth putting in premium!!!!......I'm going to try the extra 2 cents and won't wait for the scangauge
wow. over here, the difference between premium and regular is no less than 20 cents. for example, if gas is $3.18 for regular, premium is no less than $3.38. sometimes, the price difference between regular and plus is 12-15 cents already!
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Old 04-02-2007, 11:16 PM   #36
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Sorry ....the 2 cent difference was between reg and plus (87--89 octane). Think I can still get Premium in Iowa, 20 miles away otherwise no premium for at least 50 miles here in Minnesota, and then it would only be a few stations at most. The 20 cent difference would require about 2.4 mpg increase from 37mpg to be worth it.. enough said,,,
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