Our Nissan Leaf review

[Thirty-Nine]

FYI, I've got our Nissan Leaf review posted on Subcompact Culture. If you've ever wondered what it was like to live with the Leaf, it's rather interesting. It's actually quite good; better than I thought. There are some drawbacks, though.

http://www.subcompactculture.com/201...-eclectic.html

[Hershey]

Thanks for the review . We would consider one . Most our trips are less than 60 miles . Would use the other car for longer drives . I think you can get a LEAF for less than $25,000 with all the discounts from state and U.S. gov. That's about the same as the PRIUS , CAMRY ( hybrid ) , etc..

[Thirty-Nine]

As I understand it, there's up to a $10,000 credit available, so it'd bring the cost down to about $24K.

[Kal-El]

Originally Posted by Hershey

Thanks for the review . We would consider one . Most our trips are less than 60 miles . Would use the other car for longer drives . I think you can get a LEAF for less than $25,000 with all the discounts from state and U.S. gov. That's about the same as the PRIUS , CAMRY ( hybrid ) , etc..

Originally Posted by Thirty-Nine

As I understand it, there's up to a $10,000 credit available, so it'd bring the cost down to about $24K.

Subsidized by all of us who choose not to buy a Leaf/electric car.



So I work 2 jobs (60 hours a week) to help pay for the Leaf and Volt while struggling to pay my own car payment each month. Yay!

[Altitude]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

Subsidized by all of us who choose not to buy a Leaf/electric car.



So I work 2 jobs (60 hours a week) to help pay for the Leaf and Volt while struggling to pay my own car payment each month. Yay!

You already subsidize the oil industry so what's your point?

[Kal-El]

Originally Posted by Altitude

You already subsidize the oil industry so what's your point?

Not to start a debate and move away from the thread discussion (sorry Thirty-Nine) but I need to respond.

The American tax-payer pays $0 in subsidies to oil companies. In fact, Americans benefit massively from the $80,000,000 oil/gas companies pay to the government every day. And they've invested over $1.6 trillion into the US economy in projects since 2000.

Perhaps your other argument is that they get tax breaks similar to other businesses? Again, that's not the tax payer paying them anything. That's just less money the government confiscates from their earnings. It also means lower prices at the pump. If the government dramatically raised their taxes, it would hurt all of us at the pump.

By us "subsidizing" the oil companies, do you mean us purchasing gasoline? LOL! That's not subsidizing, that's us buying a product that we want and need from a company that does a lot of work to produce and deliver it to us. If you prefer, you can either stay trapped in your home or buy an electric car and "subsidize" the electric companies instead while limiting your range and freedom.

There's a big difference to what is given when you buy a Leaf or Volt. That is the government literally giving you money in the form of a tax credit for buying a product that they hand picked (picking winners and losers in a "free" market). The government has no place selecting only certain products in the market place forcing ALL Americans to pay for them even if we don't support the product directly.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

Not to start a debate and move away from the thread discussion (sorry Thirty-Nine) but I need to respond.

The American tax-payer pays $0 in subsidies to oil companies. In fact, Americans benefit massively from the $80,000,000 oil/gas companies pay to the government every day. And they've invested over $1.6 trillion into the US economy in projects since 2000.

Perhaps your other argument is that they get tax breaks similar to other businesses? Again, that's not the tax payer paying them anything. That's just less money the government confiscates from their earnings. It also means lower prices at the pump. If the government dramatically raised their taxes, it would hurt all of us at the pump.

By us "subsidizing" the oil companies, do you mean us purchasing gasoline? LOL! That's not subsidizing, that's us buying a product that we want and need from a company that does a lot of work to produce and deliver it to us. If you prefer, you can either stay trapped in your home or buy an electric car and "subsidize" the electric companies instead while limiting your range and freedom.

There's a big difference to what is given when you buy a Leaf or Volt. That is the government literally giving you money in the form of a tax credit for buying a product that they hand picked (picking winners and losers in a "free" market). The government has no place selecting only certain products in the market place forcing ALL Americans to pay for them even if we don't support the product directly.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

Not to start a debate and move away from the thread discussion (sorry Thirty-Nine) but I need to respond.

The American tax-payer pays $0 in subsidies to oil companies. In fact, Americans benefit massively from the $80,000,000 oil/gas companies pay to the government every day. And they've invested over $1.6 trillion into the US economy in projects since 2000.

Perhaps your other argument is that they get tax breaks similar to other businesses? Again, that's not the tax payer paying them anything. That's just less money the government confiscates from their earnings. It also means lower prices at the pump. If the government dramatically raised their taxes, it would hurt all of us at the pump.

By us "subsidizing" the oil companies, do you mean us purchasing gasoline? LOL! That's not subsidizing, that's us buying a product that we want and need from a company that does a lot of work to produce and deliver it to us. If you prefer, you can either stay trapped in your home or buy an electric car and "subsidize" the electric companies instead while limiting your range and freedom.

There's a big difference to what is given when you buy a Leaf or Volt. That is the government literally giving you money in the form of a tax credit for buying a product that they hand picked (picking winners and losers in a "free" market). The government has no place selecting only certain products in the market place forcing ALL Americans to pay for them even if we don't support the product directly.

Bravo . I couldn't have said it better myself. Also, IIRC, the average household income of a Volt owner is between 171k and 172k. As of 2011, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, 93.08% of U.S. households have a household income of $169,999 or less....the subsidy isn't going to be a financial 'make or break' re buying the car (at least in some states )

Utility companies (in the opinion of quite a few, at least in California) don't generate an aura of good feeling or sense of community, but many Californians still have no qualms about likely helping their bottom lines re increased revenue from electric car charging . Post 2007, one of the utilities in Southern California applied for a rate change and had no qualms stating that the only reason they were doing so was because of a pension shortfall . A few years ago there was a HUGE 'explosion' in San Mateo County, California (just south of the San Francisco County line) that destroyed many houses. PG & E (Pacific Gas and Electric) wanted the taxpayers (rather than the shareholders) to shoulder a huge portion the burden of the costs emanating from that accident!

[Hershey]

There's the money that's used for military to protect the oil in foreign countries . Thus taxpayers money .

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Hershey

There's the money that's used for military to protect the oil in foreign countries . Thus taxpayers money .

If Obama would allow drilling on federal land to return to previous levels, the U.S. would become energy independent even sooner, and this point would become moot.

[Hershey]

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

If Obama would allow drilling on federal land to return to previous levels, the U.S. would become energy independent even sooner, and this point would become moot.

Not for that . Makes landscapes fugly and more polluting than the battery issues stated here on hybrids and electric cars .

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Hershey

Not for that . Makes landscapes fugly and more polluting than the battery issues stated here on hybrids and electric cars .

Whether what it does to the landscape is worth the trade off is a personal feeling each person has. I'd be surprised if anyone tried to study it.

The studies are all over the map, so to speak, re conclusions re the effects of fracking. Whatever the truth is, fracking isn't going away.

Given your location, I can understand why you would have stronger feelings than some as you have the opportunity to physically see it. The US will become energy independent anyway, it would just happen sooner if Obama would allow those leases to be renewed. I can't say for certain that I wouldn't feel the way you do if I lived in the same area, but I don't think I would. Once the US becomes energy independent, there will be no political or other justification...in any way, shape, or form that would rightfully allow for those military dollars to be spent, as you mention, protecting oil interests. Whether that stops once we truly reach energy independence will be interesting to see. Even if you are right re the pollution and thus Obama not making the point moot by opening up federal lands for drilling...and he stays wedded to his current view, the point point will become moot anyway once the US is truly energy independent just from production on non (federal) government owned land.

Once we are truly energy independent (with or without Obama's help) the point that oil interests get, arguably justifiably, protection for overseas oil interests, so how is that different from government hybrid/electric incentives (let's say I agree that it currently isn't any different) would be removed as a valid point in the argument because there would be no more potential reasonable and ethical justification for that protection to continue.

[Hershey]

Should we also end rebates by the government to help with energy saving appliances , windows , doors , insulating , furnaces , water heaters , solar panels , and other things ? This helps the economy as well . Which produces and keeps jobs in return .

[MerleLawrence]

Originally Posted by Hershey

Should we also end rebates by the government to help with energy saving appliances , windows , doors , insulating , furnaces , water heaters , solar panels , and other things ? This helps the economy as well . Which produces and keeps jobs in return .

Yes it does helps economy but many countries are not paying attention to energy saving appliances and green energy sources

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Hershey

Should we also end rebates by the government to help with energy saving appliances , windows , doors , insulating , furnaces , water heaters , solar panels , and other things ? This helps the economy as well . Which produces and keeps jobs in return .

Apples and Oranges, in my view. AFAIK, the 'carbon footprint improvement'' (for lack of a better way to put it) of all of those other items you mention (which are all good -- concept and use) hasn't been questioned. Whereas, IIRC (see another Yarisworld thread), with hybrids the pollution from the battery factories (among other things) increase the initial carbon footprint to a level that isn't overcome until some point after 60,000 miles. This, of course, would be altered (by what extent = ?) by factors in both directions (zero emissions vs larger battery/more battery power needed).

[Thirty-Nine]

True. However, the subsidies/tax incentives/etc. do play a part in this car. I'm not encouraging political rants, but I do believe this the incentives do play a part in the future of electric vehicles.

[ilikerice]

Me and my Wife want a leaf also.. thanks for this really good review. Only problem I see is that she has a problem keeping her phone charged.. I can only imagine how many times she "forgets" to charge the Car.

Either way, I like the leaf even more now

[NEexpat]

Good, fair review.

For some this is perfect. My GF for instance has a simple 6.5 mile point to point daily commute, with all spots she requires, shopping, hair/nail salon. pet groomer. bank etc. all between those 2 points.

Not for me however. Besides the cost, the range isn't there for me (yet). Perhaps one day.

Twice this year, on long road trips and on warmer days I went over 415 miles non-stop in my Yari, each time time with 2+ gallons to spare.