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Old 04-24-2009, 10:38 AM   #1
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What the Yaris community needs to take the Yaris to the next level

Note I didn't post in the wheels section because the focus there is mainly "how to drop your car and add big wheels to impress your friends." Nothing wrong with that but the Yaris has much more potential.

I'm a Honda convert due to the fact that Honda abandoned its lightweight hatch niche.

The Yaris has a lot of potential with its 2200 lb curb weight, I'd say more potential than anything new short of a Lotus or Miata.

Now the problem is there is no real hard data as to what mods give us.

I would love to see something like this : TRD suspension + sway bar+ sticky tires give .9x g lateral acceleration and 7x mph slalom.

With the old Honda's there were formulas you could follow and know your track results at least ballpark figures. Nothing put a smile on my face more than buying a clean 93 Civic for $3000 and adding a formulated $2000 tires/suspension that guaranteed 70+mph Slalom and .9 gs. Cars that can handle like this for cheap are special and just make the daily commute FUN.

With the Yaris I am about to install $1500 worth of "stuff" and I have no idea what it gets me other than a better stance.

We should push TRD and other vendors to start doing track results, or possibly the magazines.

This will be the first step in making the Yaris a true tuner car, it has everything going for it but needs to be taken to the next level. Right now I see the Yaris owners making it a show car, but there really is potential modding into a fun sports car. And don't tell me it is a lacking power econobox, 8 second 0-60 mph is more than respectable as a sports car over the last 35 years and there has to be some real performance handling gains to be had.

I plan on finding somewhere to have a slalom and lateral acceleration measured after upgrading my suspension this weekend, anyone know where this could be done in the mid-atlantic area?

Last edited by regal; 04-24-2009 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 04-24-2009, 10:52 AM   #2
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I. Agree. With. This. So much. I have held off on major cosmetic modifications and spent my money on suspension, tires, and the like for the effect you're talking about. I'll see if I can talk to one of my friends that works for Super Street magazine about doing something along the lines of Yaris track performance.
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Old 04-24-2009, 10:53 AM   #3
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I've already pulled .98G average on a skidpad on street tires with bolt-on mods. You're right, the Yaris has lots of potential. The "formula" might not be readily available as it is in the Honda world, but the potential and the parts are available. Instead of following forumulas (that may or may not be right, suspension is a very personal thing), I prefer to do research and testing and learn how to set the car up for myself.

Believe it or not, this topic would fare better in the Wheels/Tires/Suspension forum. Nobody in the "General" forum cares. Yes, there are the "lower the car for looks" types there, but there are also some true performance and handling types there. We generally try to stay out of each other's way.
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:15 AM   #4
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Agreed with Loren, it's better here

Well, from what I've noticed lurking around here so long (), the Yaris is a very new car without so much of an established record (at least in the US), compared to Civics... Call it what you want, but it seems it is very much an entry-level car, on which most of those who wish to modify it will only really be dabbling their toes, while only a relative few "heavies" will cannonball into the pool So yes, it's going to take a while to build up a proper high-level tuning community... I suppose it was the same when the Civics first came around in the US, who would have ever thought they'd be such an omnipresent force in motorsports? But we'll get there...

As for hard numbers... There was one magazine that, if I recall correctly, tested one of the manufacturer demo cars, I believe the Fujita Sedan, and went over 1G laterally... On my own very unprofessional testing (My head unit has an optional G-sensor to calculate a bunch of stuff on the fly, but no idea if it's truly accurate), I managed 0.95G's in a long fast curve...

We do have a basic "formula"... rear sway bar, good tires, dump some weight, springs/dampers or coilovers if possible, and you've got a very healthy chunk of the maximum grip you could achieve with the car, without spending a fortune on it (i.e. refer to that performance primer I wrote, and Tamago's handling guide )
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:54 AM   #5
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i'm breaking my silence to say this:

if you want to take the yaris community to the next level:

INNOVATE, DON'T DUPLICATE

asking other members of the same car "what can i do to my car" will yield a few answers:

1. well i did a, b, c, d, you could do those
2. you gotta pay to play
3. it sucks there's no parts for "our cars"

the next level will come from innovation. Innovation comes from breaking the mold. quit buying bolt-on parts, and do something original. swap an engine, fit 9" wide wheels, get the car in a magazine once or twice. i know everyone likes to think that their car is "unique" but in reality.. without custom work (custom meaning one-off) it's a cookie cutter car. sure, buying $2000 wheels from jah-pan is "unique" because you didn't buy rotas, but just imagine where that money could have gone! toward innovation!

now: we all know why this will never happen. very few of 'you guys' bought a yaris simply to cut it up and make it different. i know there's the drift yaris, and a few actually quick yarii out there, but the average buyer of an econobox bought it because they either A: couldn't afford a bigger/better car, B: liked the fuel mileage, or C: genuinely liked the car at first sight. so that cuts out 2/3 of buyers right there. the person who fell in love with the car will be your innovator. he (or she) won't care about fuel mileage, won't care about possibly chopping a hood or notching a frame rail, if it means running a better powerplant.. so we'd better hope that all the "C" buyers paid cash for their cars and have another vehicle to get them back and forth. no? good luck getting to the next level.
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:57 AM   #6
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lol and yes, my post is highly off topic for this thread :D
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Old 04-24-2009, 12:16 PM   #7
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With the new Tokico HTS coming out soon, we have an excellent set of high quality dampers coming our way. I think what we need next is the Yaris equivelent of "Ground Control" coilovers. I would love to get them to produce a sleeve coilover set. The Honda's that i knew about that handled best and would hand me my ass were usually running Koni's, Ground controls, and sticky tires. We have the dampers on the way from Tokico, now we need to push GC to bring an application for our car. This would give us the freedom to choose any spring rates we desire. Some custom upper mounts to give more stroke in the front and eliminate slop would be great as well, but that will take some R&D. We have sticky tires, wheel options, and a great community, so the pieices are there.

This is a GREAT thread btw, best ive seen in ages. I am intrested to hear what else you guys have to say.
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Old 04-24-2009, 12:36 PM   #8
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To the OP: Great post!

I'm glad you posted in the general section because I might not have noticed your post otherwise. Your post makes a lot of sense, even to me, a lay person who doesn't know anything about mechanics, and very little about cars, but really, really, enjoys driving them .

I might spend the money and modify the car some, if I could find some data out there (not just "yo, do it man, cause it's rad") telling me what these mods do exactly, and how does the modified car handles compare to say, a Honda , or another car.

And for the record, I am, too, a Honda convert, for the same reason: Honda no longer makes a small, light hatch.
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Old 04-24-2009, 12:43 PM   #9
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lol and yes, my post is highly off topic for this thread :D
I was sort of thinking the same thing. Not at all the direction the OP was talking about.
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Old 04-24-2009, 12:59 PM   #10
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The main thing that made the original Rabbit the Hot hatch in the 80s was it was a budget car that could pull serious g's and slalom times. That car is sort of the mold-breaker that led to the modern Yaris.

I am not so much into expensive coil-overs and extreme modification. What peaks my interested is take $2000 buy A,B,C and pull 1g. Daily Driving 100% streetable car/go-carts are so much fun that the daily boring commute to work because the best part of your day.

I suspect the typical TRD setup gives a very good performance, but the crazy thing is no one has any numbers. If we had some real data, the industry world take notice and better improvements would be developed. Right now we are shooting in the dark, mainly because the OEMs sell us cars with comfort suspensions. All modern rides are riding on soft springs and shocks now-days, what really matters is how the car transforms with a proper suspension. The 240sx was considered a bland old mans car until people started replacing parts and bolting stuff on, now look at what you can do. The Yaris is still in that stage that the 240sx was in around the mid-90's.
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Old 04-24-2009, 01:05 PM   #11
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Note I didn't post in the wheels section because the focus there is mainly "how to drop your car and add big wheels to impress your friends." Nothing wrong with that but the Yaris has much more potential.
With the old Honda's there were formulas you could follow and know your track results at least ballpark figures. Nothing put a smile on my face more than buying a clean 93 Civic for $3000 and adding a formulated $2000 tires/suspension that guaranteed 70+mph Slalom and .9 gs. Cars that can handle like this for cheap are special and just make the daily commute FUN.

I plan on finding somewhere to have a slalom and lateral acceleration measured after upgrading my suspension this weekend, anyone know where this could be done in the mid-atlantic area?
Really? I see a few show cars and big rim threads, but there are also a LOT of people running 15" konigs, ssrs, on other light weight rims. There are also good discussions on the handling of different springs, sway bars, etc.

I'm pretty sure there was a thread on here about 2 TRD vioses - I'm sure the skidpad, slalom, and other useful information is somewhere out there on them.(I know they were running on a track, so they SHOULD have all that anyway)

The other thing is, the show people which you seem to have something against, are doing more than anyone else as far as getting people to pay attention to the yaris. The more sponsors see yaris, the more likely they are to produce parts, and test the parts like you want.

Also, we'll have to see the world's reaction to garm's monster once he gets it fired up!
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Old 04-24-2009, 01:13 PM   #12
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Huh? How much do you think you need to spend on a coilover kit?

I have about $950 in my coilover kit, $80 in a set of rear springs (I went stiffer than what came with the kit), and about $160 in a rear swaybar. Those are my suspension mods. That and a set of $89/each 15x7 wheels and a $400 set of tires. That's it. Less than $2000 for the whole works INCLUDING wheels and tires.

I'm not sure what your complaint is other than your lack of knowledge about what's available for the Yaris and how to set it up.

The typical TRD setup is just a mild street upgrade from the stock suspension, it's really nothing special. Not sure what you want for numbers. Slalom times? Skidpad numbers? You realize that those things are highly dependent on what tires are on the car and how well the car is driven, right? They are highly subjective measures. Nobody can say "put TRD springs, shocks and rear swaybar on your car and pull .9 G's" because the stock tires won't pull .9 G's. And guess what? You could put really good tires on the STOCK suspension and pull well over .9 G's.

You might be shooting in the dark... I'm not.
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Old 04-24-2009, 01:14 PM   #13
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I appreciate and love the looks of the show cars with the $3k 18" rims (that rub) and 3" drop on soft springs. Just that obviously they won't perform well and that is not what I'm interested in. To me the big wheels and soft spring drops should be in the cosmetic section.

What I am interested in is what is the potential of the Yaris with $1k, 2K, etc invested with real data. I think this will only help the evolution of this platform.
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Old 04-24-2009, 01:35 PM   #14
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Nice thread. I love reading the really few "quality" posts nowadays on this site. I considered transforming this car to a track car, but IMO, think it needs a lot of work. To compete against similar cars, or modifications past "tuner classes" would have the yaris destroyed. I'm quite interested in where this thread is going, and look forward to your build, sir. If I didn't have $50k invested in a current track car, I'd seriously consider this one, although a miata is very close to power to weight ratio.
I have done mods to make the car perform better, none of the "cosmetic" ones yet. I do have a set of coilovers coming though. I'll race the yaris this season for a bit while my wrx is being downed for work. We'll see how it does.

Best of luck to you.
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Old 04-24-2009, 01:38 PM   #15
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[quote=regal;297821
What I am interested in is what is the potential of the Yaris with $1k, 2K, etc invested with real data. I think this will only help the evolution of this platform.[/QUOTE]

not trying to disrupt thread flow but in this country our platform is only 3 years old with a majority of its owners who post his/her findings on this website. we have a vast diversity in age between owners and this makes for some interesting reads and surprisingly helpful/informative threads. my point IS this car is not a CIVIC and if you want that kind of information your gonna have to trial and error yourself or just sit back like the rest of us and see what happens.

btw: TRD USA will not lift a finger to support us or from what ive seen any platform that is in the toyota brand. ive been trying that for the past 2 years now.......
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Old 04-24-2009, 01:47 PM   #16
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so, to break 1.0G ........ buy a set of used Toyo R888's and mount them to an otherwise stock yaris.. $200 for 1.0G ?
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I hate people like you (xbgod) because your the reason I don't come to this board. You spout nonsense and lies and people who don't know any better hold you in high regards because they can't tell the wheat from the chaff.
you nailed it sir.
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Old 04-24-2009, 02:04 PM   #17
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so, to break 1.0G ........ buy a set of used Toyo R888's and mount them to an otherwise stock yaris.. $200 for 1.0G ?
Sounds like a good "formula" to me, Tomago.

Are we talking peak G's or average G's? That setup would easily be good for 1.2 G's peak... right before you tossed the car onto its roof.
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Old 04-24-2009, 02:10 PM   #18
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Sounds like a good "formula" to me, Tomago.

Are we talking peak G's or average G's? That setup would easily be good for 1.2 G's peak... right before you tossed the car onto its roof.
factor in a $160 swaybar then? and $24 for some camber bolts.. $60 for a custom alignment..

so, $444 to break 1.0G
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I hate people like you (xbgod) because your the reason I don't come to this board. You spout nonsense and lies and people who don't know any better hold you in high regards because they can't tell the wheat from the chaff.
you nailed it sir.
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