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Old 11-20-2009, 04:37 PM   #37
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I'm gonna bet the primary effect in play here is the "toe curve" of the rear suspension. It's designed to be slightly toed in at the factory ride height, and as the suspension compresses in a turn, it toes in a little more for stability. This effect is all built into the rear axle assembly and the angles at which it rotates. So, by changing to the upper holes on a lowered car, you're effectively putting things back into the alignment they were designed for.

To verify this, someone should carefully measure their rear toe before and after making this change. If I'm right, you should see less static toe out after than before.
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Old 11-22-2009, 11:04 AM   #38
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Thanks for the finding! I'm curious though, what exactly is the benefit/gain of doing this procedure? I'm not quite sure I completely get what the end result is. Also, any negatives to it?
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Old 11-22-2009, 12:53 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loren View Post
I'm gonna bet the primary effect in play here is the "toe curve" of the rear suspension. It's designed to be slightly toed in at the factory ride height, and as the suspension compresses in a turn, it toes in a little more for stability. This effect is all built into the rear axle assembly and the angles at which it rotates. So, by changing to the upper holes on a lowered car, you're effectively putting things back into the alignment they were designed for.

To verify this, someone should carefully measure their rear toe before and after making this change. If I'm right, you should see less static toe out after than before.
hmm,i need an alignment, perhaps i will try this...
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Old 11-22-2009, 02:05 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loren View Post
I'm gonna bet the primary effect in play here is the "toe curve" of the rear suspension. It's designed to be slightly toed in at the factory ride height, and as the suspension compresses in a turn, it toes in a little more for stability. This effect is all built into the rear axle assembly and the angles at which it rotates. So, by changing to the upper holes on a lowered car, you're effectively putting things back into the alignment they were designed for.

To verify this, someone should carefully measure their rear toe before and after making this change. If I'm right, you should see less static toe out after than before.
Hmmm i just had a alignment done few weeks ago. When i get a chance ill do this and get a second alignment done and see the difference and post results for you guys Ill also take a few pics more pics if no one has done it by then to make a little more detailed DIY for those who dont know exactly what we are talking about yet. GOOD FIND!

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Old 11-23-2009, 06:32 PM   #41
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Thanks for the finding! I'm curious though, what exactly is the benefit/gain of doing this procedure? I'm not quite sure I completely get what the end result is. Also, any negatives to it?
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Old 11-23-2009, 06:39 PM   #42
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I did it. Super easy. I put the car on jack stands at the rear jack points, used floor jacks to support the weight of the axle and keep the springs from fighting me, and removed the rear wheels, both for weight reduction and access.
Exactly how I did it also. Alignment next week, will compare to the last one I did.
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Old 11-23-2009, 07:35 PM   #43
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Getting ready to put some DF springs on. Should I move them to the upper hole during the install? Where do you guys trust to do the alignments? I hate going to shops and have to explain to them how to do their job.
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Old 11-23-2009, 08:09 PM   #44
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Exactly how I did it also. Alignment next week, will compare to the last one I did.
Did you hand torque it down or just hit it with a breaker bar as hard as you could? I am guessing it should be torqued to about 145ft lbs. And maybe some threadlocker for some extra insurance. I am going to do this at home on my driveway hopefully tonight. Usually i hit everything down with a impact gun but by hand i like to get torque specs to be on the safe side.
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Old 11-23-2009, 08:22 PM   #45
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that's some serious torque there ...
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:43 PM   #46
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Those pivot bolts don't need to be super-tight. The factory manual is available online, though... look it up!
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Old 11-23-2009, 10:47 PM   #47
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Is there some reason my question has been skipped over twice so far? Just curious.
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Old 11-24-2009, 12:42 AM   #48
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If you read above Lorens Posts

"I'm gonna bet the primary effect in play here is the "toe curve" of the rear suspension. It's designed to be slightly toed in at the factory ride height, and as the suspension compresses in a turn, it toes in a little more for stability. This effect is all built into the rear axle assembly and the angles at which it rotates. So, by changing to the upper holes on a lowered car, you're effectively putting things back into the alignment they were designed for."

And on the previous pages you'll get an idea of how it adjusts the suspension geometry

When you lower the suspension in the front you can get bump steer. There are devices to install in the front to adjust and compensate for this. This is something akin to that but in the rear suspension where you level out the torsion beam and realign the toe.

I guess an illustration would be the best way to describe this.
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Old 11-24-2009, 02:43 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by detroiter View Post
Is there some reason my question has been skipped over twice so far? Just curious.
Um, yeah. I may not have addressed you by name, but your question has been answered. Read.
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Old 11-24-2009, 03:32 AM   #50
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Those pivot bolts don't need to be super-tight. The factory manual is available online, though... look it up!
I took your advice and looked it up. For those who are interested the factory spec is exactly 67 ft lbs.
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Old 11-24-2009, 03:36 AM   #51
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Dang, my crappy torque wrench doesn't go that high =(
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Old 11-24-2009, 04:04 AM   #52
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Dang, my crappy torque wrench doesn't go that high =(
certainly does not need to. i removed my rear axle over 5 years ago and never used a torque wrench to re-install it. "tight" worked just fine.
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I hate people like you (xbgod) because your the reason I don't come to this board. You spout nonsense and lies and people who don't know any better hold you in high regards because they can't tell the wheat from the chaff.
you nailed it sir.
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Old 11-24-2009, 04:17 AM   #53
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So whats the end end of this?

Raise the bolt location then X happens?

Idk if people think a stable rear is better for handling?

I'd assume that having a happier rear end, or a rear end with a TOE OUT setting is better for turning? That would also make the rear end feel like its gonna get in front of you, right? Ahh, Loren, help me out.
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Old 11-24-2009, 04:35 AM   #54
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I would assume then this is for the Japanese following of the car for when it's lowered and being raced? Seems easy enough for me... Drill an extra hole for people who want to race it and leave one for the stock height...

Too bad it took us forever to find it =(
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