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Old 03-19-2019, 09:22 PM   #19
atomic_hoji
 
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Awesome!

Definitely following this thread. Like many, also haven't done a turbo upgrade before, but also looking forward to learning along with you - and of course happy to help where I can!

When you say researching turbocharging have you been reading mostly online or have you picked up some good books? Just wondering as I have a selection of books on tuning and forced induction bookmarked for future interest - just curious what you've found as good resources.

When I was lining up the 2ZR swap for my car I had come across this kit and took a few, rough measurements and had also done some reading about the fitment with the Corolla and use of supercharging on the Lotus'. So, for the sake of discussion / second opinion:

My thought on boost is that the specs for the Lotus Cup 250 show it running 11 psi on the stock 2ZR internals. From the Toyota Nation discussions on Corollas that have installed the Turbokits kit it sounds like you're pretty safe if you stay < 8 psi and have a good tune. Starting with a conservative 6 psi or so seems like a good strategy.

I agree that you should (fingers crossed?!) be able to fit everything in behind - there is actually a reasonable amount of room back there! I had intended to move the ECM away from the factory location using the Corolla iM engine harness, but I think the stock Yaris' ECM is up high enough you'd be OK - worst case you might find that you need to run a turbo blanket or heat shield of some sort. Running the air intake and other piping on the Yaris vs. the Corolla will be a bit of a trial and error to see how much modification it will require to fit. Very interested to see how you make out with fitting everything in terms of firewall clearance and intake piping especially.

Regarding engine management - I don't have first-hand experience, but everything I've read (as I'm sure you have) is that to speak to a tuner that is familiar with the unit you're using; seems like you're headed in the right direction! While the standalone route is great, it becomes expensive fairly quickly if you want to control 2x variable camshafts and retain drive-by-wire. You also lose your daily creature comforts / controls that are available in stock ECM - although with a feature-filled standalone you can also add some cool stuff! The suspicion I have with the piggyback reputation for needing a reset is that the tune isn't resulting in predictable feedback to the stock ECM - i.e. the stock ECM works on the principle that it sees X air, demands Y fuel, and expects Z AFR. If your tune interrupts X air, Y fuel, and calculates new outputs - scales the MAF signal to expected range and demands fuel for the real (boosted) MAF signal - such that Z AFR ends up as what the stock ECM is expecting, then the stock ECM will be none-the-wiser. The problems arise when the stock ECM starts making STFT/LTFT adjustments which compound because of the piggyback correction and then settings start to drift. That's my take on it at least - I could be very wrong of course.. lol

You might find you're OK for fuelling on the stock system with running fairly low boost. That might be something to research and have in the back pocket, but see how the tuning works out? If your tuner finds you're leaning out badly because you're fuel limited then do the upgrade, but until then save the cash and see how the stock system works? If all you're changing is the fuel pump and not the lines in the system, fuel rail, etc.. it's easy enough to swap the pump out later. Have you had a look to see what the Lotus Elise with the 1ZR/2ZR is running for fuel flow? Might give you a comparison point.. A glance back at bookmarked threads on Toyota Nation, it seems they've been OK with the stock Corolla fuel system.

No idea about those mushy, smooshy autotragic transmissions.. But seems like from what you've said that the little U-series holds up pretty well. There are things you can do in terms of valve body upgrades to get a slushbox to handle more torque too if you find you're having transmission issues; never looked for the U340E, so not sure how common or expensive that path becomes..

Oi - that turned out to be long-winded... Never-the-less, looking forward to your updates as you make headway!

-- Adam
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:49 AM   #20
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Sign me up. This is great. I also will want to see this in person when it's finished, I'll come meet you at Tim's or McD's in the Bajaris when I finish it LOL.
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Old 03-20-2019, 10:20 AM   #21
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I'd totally be down for a half way Quebec city meet hahaha
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Old 03-20-2019, 11:49 AM   #22
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Then you're going to have to do a license plate swap as well. Think of all that added work!
Whether I go 2ZR or 2ZZ, I think I'd keep the 1NZ plate. I like the sleeper aspect of it lol!

Sorry for straying off topic. Very much looking forward to the 2ZR turbo progress...
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Old 03-20-2019, 12:26 PM   #23
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This is gonna be sick af.
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Old 03-20-2019, 06:24 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by 06YarisRS View Post
...
Interestingly, the tuner with whom I was speaking said that it would be unnecessary for the F/IC to control camshaft timing and that the stock ECU would control that. He seems very knowledgeable, but this just seemed odd to me. I suppose though if it is true and the F/IC is not controlling timing, that the crank would not need to be connected either.
...
Sorry, hadn't replied regarding the wiring diagrams you posted.

From a quick read through the FIC install manual, at a glance it looks like you're spot on with the wiring techniques for those sensors. Does the Turbokits installation instructions give a recommendation on where to splice into the wiring harness? And/Or come with a "flying lead" harness to work with?

With respect to the camshaft and crankshaft inputs - my guess is the tuner means that since you are going to be running a fairly mild tune, you can avoid using the FIC to adjust timing and just leave the adjustment to the stock ECM. Might be that more aggressive tunes that adjust timing are also more likely to freak out the stock ECM, leading to the need to reset? (guessing..) I would hazard a guess that you will still need the crankshaft input as that will be how the FIC will get the rpm - fuel map references rpm if I recall.. The tuner should be able to tell you if you need to wire it in or not for sure though.

Good luck! And of course keep us posted.
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Old 03-20-2019, 06:36 PM   #25
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Hi gents.

Our family has been struck with a particularly virulent flu bug. Started with my daughter and then the rest of us fell like dominos. Thank you all for your responses and especially Adam for his thorough, detailed and helpful assessment. I will promptly respond to these as soon as we are better.
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Old 03-20-2019, 07:35 PM   #26
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Hi gents.

Our family has been struck with a particularly virulent flu bug. Started with my daughter and then the rest of us fell like dominos. Thank you all for your responses and especially Adam for his thorough, detailed and helpful assessment. I will promptly respond to these as soon as we are better.
You're under no obligation, friend. Hope you all get well soon!
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:28 PM   #27
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You're under no obligation, friend. Hope you all get well soon!
+1
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Old 03-21-2019, 02:06 PM   #28
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Thanks gents! Well, as nasty as that was, it was short-lived. Still not 100 % but definitely a lot better.
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Old 03-21-2019, 02:18 PM   #29
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Gotta love when the kids bring those bugs home for school or daycare. Glad you're on the mend.
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:48 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by atomic_hoji View Post
Awesome!

Definitely following this thread. Like many, also haven't done a turbo upgrade before, but also looking forward to learning along with you - and of course happy to help where I can!

When you say researching turbocharging have you been reading mostly online or have you picked up some good books? Just wondering as I have a selection of books on tuning and forced induction bookmarked for future interest - just curious what you've found as good resources.

When I was lining up the 2ZR swap for my car I had come across this kit and took a few, rough measurements and had also done some reading about the fitment with the Corolla and use of supercharging on the Lotus'. So, for the sake of discussion / second opinion:

My thought on boost is that the specs for the Lotus Cup 250 show it running 11 psi on the stock 2ZR internals. From the Toyota Nation discussions on Corollas that have installed the Turbokits kit it sounds like you're pretty safe if you stay < 8 psi and have a good tune. Starting with a conservative 6 psi or so seems like a good strategy.

I agree that you should (fingers crossed?!) be able to fit everything in behind - there is actually a reasonable amount of room back there! I had intended to move the ECM away from the factory location using the Corolla iM engine harness, but I think the stock Yaris' ECM is up high enough you'd be OK - worst case you might find that you need to run a turbo blanket or heat shield of some sort. Running the air intake and other piping on the Yaris vs. the Corolla will be a bit of a trial and error to see how much modification it will require to fit. Very interested to see how you make out with fitting everything in terms of firewall clearance and intake piping especially.

Regarding engine management - I don't have first-hand experience, but everything I've read (as I'm sure you have) is that to speak to a tuner that is familiar with the unit you're using; seems like you're headed in the right direction! While the standalone route is great, it becomes expensive fairly quickly if you want to control 2x variable camshafts and retain drive-by-wire. You also lose your daily creature comforts / controls that are available in stock ECM - although with a feature-filled standalone you can also add some cool stuff! The suspicion I have with the piggyback reputation for needing a reset is that the tune isn't resulting in predictable feedback to the stock ECM - i.e. the stock ECM works on the principle that it sees X air, demands Y fuel, and expects Z AFR. If your tune interrupts X air, Y fuel, and calculates new outputs - scales the MAF signal to expected range and demands fuel for the real (boosted) MAF signal - such that Z AFR ends up as what the stock ECM is expecting, then the stock ECM will be none-the-wiser. The problems arise when the stock ECM starts making STFT/LTFT adjustments which compound because of the piggyback correction and then settings start to drift. That's my take on it at least - I could be very wrong of course.. lol

You might find you're OK for fuelling on the stock system with running fairly low boost. That might be something to research and have in the back pocket, but see how the tuning works out? If your tuner finds you're leaning out badly because you're fuel limited then do the upgrade, but until then save the cash and see how the stock system works? If all you're changing is the fuel pump and not the lines in the system, fuel rail, etc.. it's easy enough to swap the pump out later. Have you had a look to see what the Lotus Elise with the 1ZR/2ZR is running for fuel flow? Might give you a comparison point.. A glance back at bookmarked threads on Toyota Nation, it seems they've been OK with the stock Corolla fuel system.

No idea about those mushy, smooshy autotragic transmissions.. But seems like from what you've said that the little U-series holds up pretty well. There are things you can do in terms of valve body upgrades to get a slushbox to handle more torque too if you find you're having transmission issues; never looked for the U340E, so not sure how common or expensive that path becomes..

Oi - that turned out to be long-winded... Never-the-less, looking forward to your updates as you make headway!

-- Adam
Hey Adam!

Thanks very much for the input.

Among other sources such as articles and forums, I've been working my way through Corky Bell's, Maximum Boost.
Still trying to get my head around such things as tensile and compressive forces in an engine - steep learning curve. If I'm interpreting it correctly, the potential destructive forces on engine mechanicals under boost are less than what I had assumed. Also, the focus on heat management in all aspects of the turbo system is strongly promoted as the leading way to ensure long-term durability. I think your suggestion about going for 6 psi is a very good one. I could always up it a smidgen if everything was in order and performing well.

Regarding fitment of turbo and piping, I guess I'll find out when I start. One of my colleagues has a '12 Corolla, so I intend to go out and do a quick comparison between it and the Yaris in terms of firewall to head clearance. It looks like the turbo sits low enough to get into that exhaust tunnel area, so I'm hopeful. Not sure what's directly behind that in the event that I have to get a big hammer out and make room. Yes, I've also been looking at turbo blankets for the turbine. I think that would be very beneficial.

I did speak with Jesse at turbokits.com regarding the capablity of my fuel pump. He had very positive things to say about the durability, capability and longevity of the pumps Toyota uses. He believes that I would not need to do an upgrade on the pump at the boost level I seek, but, again, recommended that my tuner advise me in that area.

Regarding the transmission, I purchased an ASE Mobilis research paper on the U340E and it rates the max torque of the trans at around 140 ft/lbs

A quote from Corky Bell:

"Will the transmission and drivetrain be adversely affected?

Very Unlikely. Consider that the drivetrain endures more torque in first gear from the stock engine than almost any turbo can produce in second gear..."


Maybe I'm tailoring the info to placate myself, but the above, coupled with claims by Monkey Wrench Racing that the U340E is good up to 250+ in turboed 1ZZ Celicas leads me to believe that I at least have a chance of good results. I did speak to a nice fella at importperformancetrans as they produce a high capacity U340E/U341E transmission. He, of course, definitely recommended a performance transmission for my turbo application, but he's in the business. When queried about what he would do to the trans, he mentioned a performance valvebody (I know these exist, as MWR sells them), different clutch material and metallurgical treatments (I think Tom discussed these when building one of his transmissions). I won't be trashing on the transmission, but I guess only time will tell how it holds up. I just have to stop worring about it and move on.

Jesse recommended that I do hook up the cams to the F/IC. He says that it would probably be possible to let the stock ECU handle the cams but the functionality is there and should be used. Timing is going to need to be pulled as boost increases, I believe. As far as where to tap/intercept the harness, it can be done close to the ECU connector. I figured I'd go 8 - 10" inches from the connector and that would put me closer to my glovebox, behind which I'll probably mount the F/IC.

BTW, I got my Fedex Tracking numbers today as well as a call from turbokits.com. Getting excited here!
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Old 03-21-2019, 04:14 PM   #31
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Sign me up. This is great. I also will want to see this in person when it's finished, I'll come meet you at Tim's or McD's in the Bajaris when I finish it LOL.
Absolutely! It's a must do!
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Old 03-21-2019, 04:18 PM   #32
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I'd totally be down for a half way Quebec city meet hahaha
Hell ya. I really want to come up to the GTA for a meet - such as what you guys have been taking about - but something about a turboed Yaris, a wife, 2 kids and luggage seems impractical. We will be in Toronto in July, but unfortunately, it wouldn't be the Yaris getting us there. It would be the van - yawn!
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:25 PM   #33
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Hell ya. I really want to come up to the GTA for a meet - such as what you guys have been taking about - but something about a turboed Yaris, a wife, 2 kids and luggage seems impractical. We will be in Toronto in July, but unfortunately, it wouldn't be the Yaris getting us there. It would be the van - yawn!
Tow bar! Lol
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Old 03-22-2019, 06:22 PM   #34
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Tow bar! Lol
Ah, interesting idea!
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Old 03-22-2019, 06:33 PM   #35
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Eeeeww - glad to hear it was short lived! Blech, stomach viruses are terrible..

Interested to hear what you think of the book overall when you get through it - I've heard very polarized reviews of it.

Sounds like Turbokits customer service is good - always a bonus to deal with a company that backs-up the product after the sale. Glad to hear the stock fuel system appears to be up to the task. re: FIC install - I guess in the worst case you hook-up the cam sensors and leave control to the stock ECM, as long as it doesn't cause signal noise or problems for the stock ECM then it was just an extra wiring step.

I'm not sure I'm on-board with the automatic rationale - not because I don't think the U340E can do it more the author's reasoning is a bit mis-placed I think - if the engine makes more torque (it better if it's got boost, lol) than stock, it does so in all gears. Comparing a turbo pull in second to a stock pull in first isn't really relevant - you're still going to use first gear with the turbo! lol Especially true in an automatic because you can't start in second gear. Maybe there's more context to the statement... I'm sure IPT would love to sell you a very expensive transmission, lol. The tech. specs from the ASE paper are probably pretty reliable, but more than likely conservatively biased toward daily driving and long-term reliability vs performance from an OEM point of view. The MWR experience is more real-world and good, but like anything, I'll bet your driving style will be the biggest factor. My gut feeling is start with a transmission cooler (since automatics don't live long with heat) and see how that goes. If you're finding issues then consider a shift kit or valve body upgrade.

Tracking is exciting!

Definitely keep us posted if you are going to make it out this way this summer.

Looking forward to unboxing, progress, and booooooost!
-- Adam
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:32 PM   #36
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Eeeeww - glad to hear it was short lived! Blech, stomach viruses are terrible..

Interested to hear what you think of the book overall when you get through it - I've heard very polarized reviews of it.

Sounds like Turbokits customer service is good - always a bonus to deal with a company that backs-up the product after the sale. Glad to hear the stock fuel system appears to be up to the task. re: FIC install - I guess in the worst case you hook-up the cam sensors and leave control to the stock ECM, as long as it doesn't cause signal noise or problems for the stock ECM then it was just an extra wiring step.

I'm not sure I'm on-board with the automatic rationale - not because I don't think the U340E can do it more the author's reasoning is a bit mis-placed I think - if the engine makes more torque (it better if it's got boost, lol) than stock, it does so in all gears. Comparing a turbo pull in second to a stock pull in first isn't really relevant - you're still going to use first gear with the turbo! lol Especially true in an automatic because you can't start in second gear. Maybe there's more context to the statement... I'm sure IPT would love to sell you a very expensive transmission, lol. The tech. specs from the ASE paper are probably pretty reliable, but more than likely conservatively biased toward daily driving and long-term reliability vs performance from an OEM point of view. The MWR experience is more real-world and good, but like anything, I'll bet your driving style will be the biggest factor. My gut feeling is start with a transmission cooler (since automatics don't live long with heat) and see how that goes. If you're finding issues then consider a shift kit or valve body upgrade.

Tracking is exciting!

Definitely keep us posted if you are going to make it out this way this summer.

Looking forward to unboxing, progress, and booooooost!
-- Adam
Thanks Adam!

Turbokits does seem like a really good outfit. Jesse (the lead tech) seems like a very straight-talker, no nonsense and solution-focused kind of guy. I'd rather 'realistic' than 'accommodating'. He seems very optimistic about my project, though this one, I think, is a little different than anything that they have been involved in in the past. Suffice to say, I feel like I'm in good hands.

I like the Corky Bell book so far, but I'm really not that far into it. It seems to cover many fundamentals, so represents a good starting point for me, I suppose. If you have any recommendations for digitally available books/sources, as a general introduction to tubrocharger systems, I love to hear about them.

Yes, the Corky Bell statement about 1st and second gear - N/A vs Turbo doesn't really seem to hold much water. Of course, you are correct about boost being present in 1st gear as well as all gears. If anything, it tells me that if I want to preserve my transmission, maybe I ought not command full boost in 1st gear, lol! But, I suppose, that's common sense. I guess, in a large sense, I'm trying to convince myself - with or without valid data - haha, that I will be safe. Undeniably un-scientific, I know.

I thought about a transmission cooler, but without confirming that a cooler would not contribute to restricted flow, I'd have to do a bit more research first. I've read conflicting information about placement of a cooler (I just happen to have a tube and fin cooler in my garage, less effective than a plate and fin config) and whether it should be a) used without the stock in-rad cooler, 2) installed before the in-rad cooler or 3) on the return line. I know that cooling is very important, but my immediate concerns would be two: 1) slipping clutch packs under additional torque and 2) actually breaking hard parts, such as stripping a gear, or snapping an input or output shaft. On another note, you'd mentioned axles. Which, brings me to two questions for the YW community: 1) are axles likely to fail before transmission hard parts? And, 2) are the Scion xD axles a direct fit (lengths, spline count) with the auto? I'll dig back in the forums, but I think discussion around this topic was focused on the manual trans. EDIT: different input shaft spline count, xD 20 and Yaris 23.

Well, it seems that my packages are almost at their destination. Not sure if we'll get over this weekend to get them. But, I'd say that un-boxing isnt that far off.

I do have an immediate challenge to face right off the bat, sadly. It seems that the spring bolts that attach the midpipe to the stock exhaust manifold are stripped. When we worked at straightening out the exhaust in the school shop, we realized that the bolts would turn but not back out. I don't believe that they were over tightened on the install but maybe they were. Or, the wrong ones were installed. I left it for the time being as I had no exhaust leaks, but had planned to have the exhaust guys fix that when I went for the resonator - axleback pipe diameter upgrade. Not quite sure how I am going to approach this but it might look something like cutting my midpipe and then working the lot out from below. Whatever happens will have to happen in my garage as a trip to an exhaust shop isn't in the cards at the moment. The downpipe supplied with the kit, extends well beyond the stock converter anyway, and the converter/resonator section is going to have to be chopped up and rewelded anyway.

Last evening I spoke with the tech from BLP Automotive - my future tuner guys - about fueling. He also feels I should be fine at 6-7 psi, but that they have in-stock solutions, one of which is a voltage regulator module that bumps up the pump output by increasing voltage, plus a small selection of in-tank pumps. I would prefer, the latter, but he will advise at the time.

Once I receive the kit, I'll be sure to post up pics of some of the larger individual parts as well as a segment on my experience with clocking the turbo. Apparently, some arrive needing to be clocked.
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2006 Yaris 5 Door RS 2ZR-FE Swapped, Automatic, T-28 Turbocharged, Custom exhaust, TRD rear sway bar, Penguin Garage 13mm spacers (rear), Android 6.0 7" touchscreen, Rockford Fosgate speakers, tweeters, NVX underseat subwoofer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Edvs_TSGkY
2008 Yaris LE H&R 10mm spacers (rear), RS rear spoiler
2011 Kia Sedona LX

Last edited by 06YarisRS; 03-23-2019 at 11:29 AM.
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