Alignment issue. I think they want my money.

[Grantstead]

Got my lovely new Yaris a few days ago. It pulls slightly to the right, and I have to hold the steering wheel a smidge off-center to get it to go straight, and once I inflated the tires properly I noticed some odd road noise at highway speeds. I figured, no problem. I'll get an alignment and new tires...right now it's got a half-worn Kumho right-front, half-worn Goodyear left-front, and a pair of Arizonans on the back. I noticed that one of the Arizonans is noticeably more worn on one side...but of course have no idea if it's due to where it is or not, as the previous owner might've rotated the tires recently.

The chain auto repair shop I took it to told me I had a "badly bent" control arm and engine cradle, and that they needed $3000 to fix it. I demanded to see it, so they put it on a lift...it's not noticeably off-center so far as I can tell. I know minor imperfections make a difference, but I find it hard to believe a $3000 job is the only way to fix a problem that's practically invisible to the naked eye.

Upon pressing, he admitted he didn't know if the cradle was damaged. Oddly enough, the entire underside of the car is utterly pristine, even at 82k miles - except a trio of scratches. Not very deep, but they've been there long enough to accumulate a small amount of rust. Two on the right-front control arm, and one on the engine cradle. But again, they're very small.

And I've had these people try to rip me off before on brakes...wanted more than half a grand for a full brake job, I took it somewhere else and they walked me through what actually had to be done (much less than the other place had said) and did it for a fraction.

So I'm not inclined to blindly trust their doomsday predictions. However, I have no idea how long it took for that tire to become unevenly worn, or whether or not the previous owner rotated his tires regularly.

I made sure he gave me a printout of the alignment test results. Very impressive, lots of angry-looking red. But is it really as bad as he said it is? Is there a cheaper, easier way to fix it, or even almost fix it? I have a place that, if I buy my tires from them, they'll rotate them as often as I like for free...if I can get this car straight enough that a rotation every 3-5k will keep things from getting bad, I'll be happy.

Camber: -0.7 -1.3
Cross-camber: 0.6
Caster: 4.9 3.8
Cross-caster: 1
Toe: -0.48 0.52
Total toe: 0.04

Rear toe: 0.09 -0.06
Thrust angle: 0.07

Was this guy lying through his teeth that I really need to replace the control arm and maybe engine cradle to fix this? Can I get this adjusted at least to nearly straight, just rotate my tires with extreme regularity, and it'll be fine? Or do I need to call up a mechanic I used to know and see if he can help me install an aftermarket control arm? Spent much of the morning trying to find correct alignment specs for my Yaris, with no luck.

Edit: Forgot to mention...also, on the diagnostic sheet they report airing up my tires to a uniform 32psi. This seemed a little low, since all four tires have a max of 44psi I'd have inflated them to about 40. So I got out my pressure gage...turned out three of the tires were in the low 20s, and one was in the mid teens due to the fact that it had a nail in it. (stupid low-profile tires, can be hard to tell unless you're looking for it if it's just mostly flat)

And forgot to mention that it was odd for the rest of the car's underside to be pristine when numerous other things - the oil pan, the fiberglass bit beneath the bumper, etc - are lower to the ground than the control arm and should have been damaged as well.

[detroiter]

Why don't you just take it to a different store and get a 2nd opinion? That's what I did
before and the 2nd store I went to has been nothing short of awesome each time I bring my car in for rotation and balance.

[severous01]

it's easy to make a car out of alignment before the specs are put into the computer. instead of resting the rack on the leveling pins just leave it off-level...and then you're alignment is out. simple. or, sit in the car when you hit the start button on the alignment machine...it puts weight on one side and not the other...alignment is out. there's tons of ways to get it out before you start, and then all you gotta do to put it back 'in' is get out of the car or set it on the leveling locks.

second, if the car isnt pulling and you have no weird tire wear issues, why are you aligning? i got 50k on mine and my tires are wearing flat, doesnt pull, and isnt cupped or scalloped. there's no need even though they 'suggest' every 30k or 2 years to align. there's no need, it's not wearing funny.

i dont know the specs for the yaris off hand but it seems to me that the only thing out is toe. and if you go to firestone or sears it's only 55 bucks for a FEA or front end align. rear is fine i wouldnt mess with it...cuz it's expensive since there's no adjustment, you have to shim the rear. that means taking off back wheels and backing plate to get to the rear hub...not fun.

[markitect]

Those alignment numbers do suggest something is bent. It's impossible to say what all will need replacing. They may be able to just adjust the alignment to get things good enough.

I think the bigger question is was your car in an accident, and got half repaired? The fact that everything else is pristine makes me wonder. I would take it back to the dealer, and see if they will do anything to help you out with the repairs, the tires imply it has been like that for a while, so they knew something was wrong. I don't know about the laws in your state, so you might want to investigate, that; But more then likely just calling them out on it will be enough for them to fix it.

[Grantstead]

Hrm. Guess it doesn't make much sense for me to distrust everything they say, yet assume they keep their alignment machine precisely calibrated. Righto, seeking second opinion. (took too long to post, and other replies came)

I am experiencing pulling to the right. Not a lot, but it did become noticeable on the 50-mile trip back from the dealer. The Carfax showed nothing, but I know better than to completely trust it...once test-drove an Echo with a clean Carfax, and actually found an accident report for the vehicle in a compartment under the seat! Guess they missed that when cleaning it out.

I just went out and did a rough measurement of inside and outside tire wear, using the teeth on my house key as a marker...and now I feel like a total dope. There is no uneven tire wear! All the tires appear pretty much worn evenly, rather than the kind of all-on-one-side wear I somehow thought I'd seen. I don't know how I managed to think there was, but there isn't. Maybe it's because I'm used to having more space in the wheel well - had an old Camry before this, I dunno.

Looking at everything more critically...the right-rear tire has a solid 1/8" or more extra tread compared to the left rear, and the right-front tire has a good 1/16-1/8" less tread than the left-front. The right-rear tire has a good 1/8-1/4" more tread than either of the front tires. So they're worn evenly when taken individually, but as a group are uneven, which makes sense if the guy had a tire go flat, got a different one to replace it, then had another go flat awhile after that...had it happen myself, quite a bit of construction going on, except that this guy didn't replace the pair, but just one. Which is why each tire is at a different level of wear.

And could also potentially explain the pulling on the highway, and the road noise.

And, um. I'm going to blame the perspective of the car being on the lift to skewing my perception that the oil plate was lower. It isn't. The control arms appear to be the lowest-hanging thing on the front now that the car's in my driveway instead of on the lift, so if the previous owner had taken a curve too tightly, and the right-front wheel had gone into one of the three-four inch deep sunken shoulders around here, it would've done exactly what I've observed: a few scratches on the control arm and engine cradle. Hell, I've owned cars all scratched up along the bottom from such things that had no problem.

I feel like an idiot, but also much better, because it's looking more and more like the tires alone may be at fault. Can't believe I didn't think to measure the tire wear myself, and double-check how low the control arm was >.> I'm gonna blame being distraught at the idea of something so expensive being so immediately wrong with my beloved fresh-used Yaris. <.<

So I'm thinking now that I'll replace the tires, and then get an alignment done someplace other than the local Firestone (which was the place I was talking about, wasn't sure if it was considered poor form to name names at first) if I still have pulling at highway speeds.

[Jason@SportsCar]

The hodgepodge of tires you have is likely a big part of the pull. The caster/camber will not help, but having mismatched tires means even after you replace any needed parts the car will still pull.

Replace the tires first, then get a second opinion/check on the alignment.

[TLyttle]

Seconded. Certainly the front tires were my first suspect. The other friends I have are a rafter square and a length of aluminum angle, 10' is about right. Find a nice, flat, empty, parking lot, and stop (using the parking brake only) with the wheels as straight-ahead as possible. Check with the straightedge across the tires down the side of the car; if it ain't straight, correct at the wheel and move another 10'. Out comes the rafter square, and check against the front tires for EQUAL camber. Move the square under the front on either side; any discrepancies in caster will show up with a measuring tape. I've used this method for decades, and found it to be almost as accurate as most alignment machines.

But I still go back to the tires, I am sure they are your culprit. More than any car I have ever owned, tires and tire pressures on a Yaris are critical!

[R2D2]

Keep in mind if the road is crowned that will cause the vehicle to pull also. One way to check is drive on the left side of the road-it should pull slightly left. Drive on the right side it will pull to the right. More crown, more pull. Just something to keep in mind.

[Hershey]

If you go the TOYOTA website and look at CERITIFIED Yaris and their history ( CARFAX ) you'll see many YARIS that had wheel alignments done . If I remember correctly , some were 2010s' with low mileage as well . Why ?

[TLyttle]

Why? It may have something to do with the lower ball joint. When I had my Yaris on the hoist, I noticed that the ball joint is pressed into place, and one of mine wasn't pressed in quite straight. A quick look will confirm that problem.

[severous01]

Originally Posted by Hershey

If you go the TOYOTA website and look at CERITIFIED Yaris and their history ( CARFAX ) you'll see many YARIS that had wheel alignments done . If I remember correctly , some were 2010s' with low mileage as well . Why ?

that's part of the certification process at many dealers. we have honda, nissan, bmw, mercedes, dodge/jeep/chrysler at our dealership. the only ones that dont require align is merc and bmw dealers. all the others require alignments to pass cert. it boosts service sales and boosts hours for employees. plus its a no-cost deal for service. they dont have to pay for parts and it also is a good time to check suspension before kickin it out to another buyer.

but, it's not a toyota thing to align to pass a CPO, that's a dealership rule.

[johnny_vitz]

^^agreed. our shop does alignments for a honda dealer down the street...many of which have only a few thousand kilometers. Quite often they're bang on, they just want a print out.

[Grantstead]

Huh. Well, that was easier than expected...four new tires, no more pull. I get a free alignment with my tires, so I'm gonna do it anyway, but wow. I knew the tires would make a difference, but I wasn't honestly expecting they'd fix it outright! Put a few hundred miles on my new tires over the past couple of days, and it's really a pleasure to drive now.

[ezhacker1]

Toe: -0.48 0.52

This jumped out at me, Your right side is toe in, and the left side is pointed in the same direction (out). You should see a pull to the left instead of right with those stats, a pretty big pull in fact.

Glad you got things figured out tho.

[wrightmercy]

actually if you have doubt about what do they diagnose about your, well try to seek a second opinion. if you want you can try this auto repair shops (link was added) to have a second opinion about the problem that you are experiencing right now since i guarantee that this auto repair shops will give you the best solution and best answer about your query. hope that this would help you.