I predict gas will be $3(nyc) by summer, national avg $2.80

[daf62757]

Originally Posted by yaris-me

Prove it!

Sure....convince your brain dead liberal socialist elitist politicians to lift the ban on drilling and I will.

[Bob Dog]

Typical rightie; find a straw dog to bark at and yap with the pack when some else does. My name is not Al Gore. Not all of us need any one leader to form our opinions. You do not like the idea that the ice caps are melting so you deny the fact to both yourself and others: its called willful ignorance and it is meat and bread of retro right.

[daf62757]

Originally Posted by Bob Dog

Typical rightie; find a straw dog to bark at and yap with the pack when some else does. My name is not Al Gore. Not all of us need any one leader to form our opinions. You do not like the idea that the ice caps are melting so you deny the fact to both yourself and others: its called willful ignorance and it is meat and bread of retro right.

Typical rightie? I doubt it.

[roxy1]

Originally Posted by Bob Dog

Typical rightie; find a straw dog to bark at and yap with the pack when some else does. My name is not Al Gore. Not all of us need any one leader to form our opinions. You do not like the idea that the ice caps are melting so you deny the fact to both yourself and others: its called willful ignorance and it is meat and bread of retro right.

no one is denying the ice caps are melting. yes, they are indeed. they have before, and they will again. and, yes, global warming is an undisputable fact. not one scientist in the world will dipute that. that humans have cause it is wholly unproven, since temperature changes in similar time frames have happened in the distant past, before fossil fuels were part of this earth.

al gore loves to talk about the unprecedented changes in the patterns of the melting ice caps. it is not unprecedented, and he has been proven to be unknowlegeable on this. secondly, the satellite images he loves to reference have only been used for about 30 years to monitor the polar ice cap.

science being unable to prove global warming is human induced isnt the same as denying that there is global warming. willful ignorance is the inability to understand the empirical requirements that make up legitimate research and the historical context of global warming patterns over the history of the planet.

none of this means that humans havent contributed to global warming, but global warming patterns over the history of the earth combined with the current time frame most people reference for the current warming have made it difficult thus far to prove any cause and effect.

[Altitude]

Originally Posted by roxy1

secondly, the satellite images he loves to reference have only been used for about 30 years to monitor the polar ice cap.
.

Yeah it's a shame that we haven't been using satellite imagery to monitor the ice caps for hundreds of years now...oh wait...satellites haven't been around that long. Clue: there are other methods to determine the historical freeze and thaw of ice-caps, but I suppose that doesn't matter to you.

So I guess the debunkers stance is that since we can't prove that man can impact the climate then we just don't need to worry about it or change our ways. Nevermind that alternative and planet friendly supplies of energy are a wise and good thing to strive for regardless of the health of the planet. Nevermind that we can spawn all sorts of new industries and improve the lives and livelihood of all living beings on this planet. Nevermind that no one has yet to put forth a good reason why we shouldn't all be working - right now - to improve these things. If you don't feel it then there ain't no issue. Got it.

Let me just leave it at this - I don't give a crap whether the climate change is man-made or not. It shouldn't have to take something so drastic or controversial to get people off their asses to make things better.

[daf62757]

Originally Posted by Altitude

Yeah it's a shame that we haven't been using satellite imagery to monitor the ice caps for hundreds of years now...oh wait...satellites haven't been around that long. Clue: there are other methods to determine the historical freeze and thaw of ice-caps, but I suppose that doesn't matter to you.

So I guess the debunkers stance is that since we can't prove that man can impact the climate then we just don't need to worry about it or change our ways. Nevermind that alternative and planet friendly supplies of energy are a wise and good thing to strive for regardless of the health of the planet. Nevermind that we can spawn all sorts of new industries and improve the lives and livelihood of all living beings on this planet. Nevermind that no one has yet to put forth a good reason why we shouldn't all be working - right now - to improve these things. If you don't feel it then there ain't no issue. Got it.

Let me just leave it at this - I don't give a crap whether the climate change is man-made or not. It shouldn't have to take something so drastic or controversial to get people off their asses to make things better.

I agree with most of what you said...except that some of these eco friendly things actually cause more damage. Using electric cars, by itself would be great, only the increase of coal to power the power plants would cause more damage than cars that use fossil fuel. Until we start building new nuclear plants, things like electric cars will cause more harm.

[Bob Dog]

The simple fact is that the ice caps can be documented as being hundreds of thousands of years old by ice core samples and they are melting syncronously with the introduction of fossil fuels during a period of 100 years. The odds of this happening in this specific manner using only the crudist of probability estimation is in the neighborhood of a thousand to one. But go ahead, continue to live in the Disneyland sand castle that Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh and their compadres at Fox News and such have built for you: I am sure it would be much to difficult for you to live in a world with sharp, jagged edges and no easy answers.

[roxy1]

Originally Posted by Altitude

So I guess the debunkers stance is that since we can't prove that man can impact the climate then we just don't need to worry about it or change our ways.

Let me just leave it at this - I don't give a crap whether the climate change is man-made or not. It shouldn't have to take something so drastic or controversial to get people off their asses to make things better.

of course there have been other ways to monitor the melting of the ice cap in the past. i only brought up al gore's obsession with the current method because he was exposed as having very little knowledge of the planetary history of polar ice cap melts as it relates to the last 30 years.

here is what i have already stated in previous posts:

"personally, i dont care which side of the argument anyone falll on. we need deperately to clean up our planet for a myriad of reasons. "

and...

"the sad thing is we never should have needed al gore and the like spreading misinformation to motivate the countries of the world to clean up our planet. there are enough other reasons to clean things up."

so, i am with you on that point of emphasis. count me as one who doesnt need one shred of evidence that there is human induced global warming to be motivated to clean up this earth. people should focus on all the reasons, lest they be disappointed if global warming continues nevertheless. there will still be many benefits to ourselves and our planet.

[Bob Dog]

$2.39 in southern Virginia 5pm 6/8/09

[aeipee13]

Originally Posted by Bob Dog

$2.39 in southern Virginia 5pm 6/8/09

yeah, back to the subject.

[roxy1]

Originally Posted by aeipee13

yeah, back to the subject.

yeah, ok.

$2.69 for regular in Michigan today.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by Bob Dog

The left, the right , how mid 20th century. Human caused planetary change is documented and the primary reason people chose to deny it is not factually based but due to the discomfort it causes to acknowledge it.

Non-sense.

Originally Posted by Bob Dog

Truth is we are the monkey that pisses poison. Realize that and get on with your life.

Misanthropic non-sense.

Originally Posted by Bob Dog

The pollution will continue as long mass and energy create power, physical or manifestly political.

Third law of thermodynamics supports a paraphrase of this view, if you consider waste products to be "pollution". Sometimes they are and sometimes they aren't.

The jury is still out on people causing some or most of the climate change recently seen. Some damn good science is being done that disputes some or all of this dogma that Al Gore and others peddle for a living.

Science isn't about anecdotes of drowning polar bears, loss of ice caps or other phenomena, it's about establishing causes and relationships.

Either the models work or they don't. Skepticism isn't denial, it's being scientific.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykgg9m-7FK4


I'll be glad to agree that we're running out of fossil fuels and need to fix this problem. I reject this idea that Americans and Europeans must sacrifice manufacturing jobs, their industries and ultimately must live like peasants so that some people can feel good about themselves.

Gene

[GeneW]

I saw about $2.70 for "brand" regular around here. You all who pay less probably don't have tax hungry road warriors like our Governor, "Fast Eddie", who has been clocked nine times going over 100 miles an hour on the Turnpike. Laws and taxes are for little people you know.

Gene

[SE-RIX]

91 octane just reached $3.00/gallon in socal

[anonymous user]

Originally Posted by SE-RIX

91 octane just reached $3.00/gallon in socal

Filled up yesterday, $3.019 (91 oct) here in the highest gasoline taxed state (honolulu, HI) in amerikka!!

[YarisOwnersDad]

Regular (87 Octane) is $2.599 here in western KY.

[voodoo22]

Fact: polluting is bad for our health. Even if you don't care about the planet, how greedy are we as a species that we care more about our immediate gratification than our own health and wellbeing?

Fact: no one knows for sure what we are doing to the environment and anyone who says they know 100% what our exploitation of the planet is doing, should be met with skepticism as they are probably advancing a self serving agenda.

Fact: Gas has been over .90 a litre for a long time in Toronto. Today it's 94.9 or which is 3.59 a gallon.

[Bob Dog]

Since this thread has pretty much died I figured that on would I bring it back to life it and respond to the dismissive comments of Gene W.
1) Human caused planetary change is documented: Have you never seen a copper mine or a mountain with its top blown off to access coal or ever heard or seen pictures ofof the Pacific gere. Pretending these things do not exist is nothing but wishful rationization to allow those who can not deal with the fact that fossil fuel culturecauses harm to this planet to remain in their comfort zone. While there is global warming can still has room to be questioned by a reasonable person, the fact that ice caps that have been in exixtence for hundreds of thousands of are melting at the same time as our little industrial revolution is a quantifiable, and documented.
2. We are the monkey that pisses poison. We are the only species that creates inorganic waste that is toxic and does not degrade naturally.
3. In its most forgiving definition, pollution is the release of toxic substances which are destructive to lifeforms. To deny the existence of pollution is not just rationalization it is in fact denial to the point of is complete self delusion.
The fact that individuals, political parties, and corporate manipulate the perception of events does not mean that the events do not occur. Pretending that events that have documentation from mulitple sources that do not have no apparent motivation to manipulate their perception is not just scepticism. It is irrational self vindication.
"Dirty" Bob Dog
Gas $2.69 a gallon and rising south central VA 6/11/09