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Old 04-18-2009, 07:47 AM   #1
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The open political discussion thread. Read the first post!

This is a thread open to everyone to discuss politics and debate amongst each other. It will be lightly moderated (i.e. flaming, ranting and soapbox kind of posts, that would be inappropriate in other threads, are fine, but personal attacks are not. In light of the current President of the USA, racist and bigoted comments won't be tolerated either).

Two important notes:

1) This will be the ONLY political-related thread on YarisWorld. Any new thread/posts which we deem suitable, will be merged into this one.

2) While we will be lenient on aggressive behavior <b>in this thread</b>, if you bring that attitude into the rest of the forum, we will deal with it as with any other public flaming. Be prepared and have a thick skin.

Suggestions, comments, we're just a PM away...
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Old 04-18-2009, 08:30 AM   #2
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Looks like I'll get the ball rolling... As we are aware, there's talks of Texas seceding from the rest of the US, becoming its own country... And who has stepped up to become president? None other than Chuck Norris... Are we to take this seriously? discuss.
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Old 04-18-2009, 08:39 AM   #3
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It's just sad this "politics only thread" was implemented only after we lost a couple of good, albeit controversial in thought, members.
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Old 04-18-2009, 09:16 AM   #4
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Looks like I'll get the ball rolling... As we are aware, there's talks of Texas seceding from the rest of the US, becoming its own country... And who has stepped up to become president? None other than Chuck Norris... Are we to take this seriously? discuss.
Did we take Ronald Ray-gun seriuosly when he ran for President of the Whole Shebang? Kinda....
I guess if Chuck is the kinda guy that Texans WANT for a president, that'll work, but be careful what you wish for.
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Old 04-18-2009, 09:20 AM   #5
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No problem, we can create new ones!

As a resident of the Lone Star State, I can assure you that the recent political humor and comments from governor Rick Perry about succession have no serious basis. The recent Tea Part protests have probably been the catalyst for such talk, but the truth is that there is about as much chance of Texas becoming an independent republic again as my Yaris doing a 7.592 second quarter mile time at the local drag strip.*

I think all the talk is simply because of some of the radical proposals by the new administration. It has nothing to do with loyalty to the previous one either, whereas GW's popularity is probably higher in Texas than it is in most other parts of the country, his term as president has done nothing to encourage or support the alleged discussions on succession.

When Texas says it is like "A Whole Other Country," there is a lot of truth behind that statement. It is not an attempt to separate itself from the Union, but a recognition of the unique history and mindset that exists here. It is obviously not everyone's cup of tea, but I challenge you to find any state who the majority of its residents are as loyal to it as Texas. And that 'mystic' is even recognized all over the world, when I tell people I am from here it always generates much interest and enthusiasm that never occurred when I mentioned other states I have lived in (Florida, Maryland, Idaho, etc).

The bottom line is that all this talk about succession is just that, talk! But if there was any one state that would have the cojones to succeed, it would be Texas!

And, just to keep this thread going, as I am really appreciative of the moderators for allowing us such candid and open discussion; one of other reasons I like Texas so much is it is a very pro-gun state. Now, I also understand that not everyone feels that way; but I would still like to hear your non-hostile reasons for your opinion, just so we can discuss the issues and not attack anyone personally. It is far from being a cut-and-dry topic, as there are valid arguments for both sides; but in my opinion I believe there was clear intent on the part of our forefathers for including the Second Amendment in our Constitution, and I do not believe any administration should have the right to put restrictions on that which has been clearly stated in the governing document for this country!

Cheers! M2


* - That 1/4 mile time was posted by a 1987 Buick Grand National T-Type
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Old 04-18-2009, 09:27 AM   #6
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Sorry, I forgot to mention that Chuck Norris has about a snowball's chance on a mid-summer San Antonio day of serving in any elected position down here in Texas. His comments on World Net Daily and on Glenn Beck's radio show just show how out of touch the man is with reality. I think he's taken a few too many roundhouse kicks to the old cranium!

Anyhow, he isn't even a native, he is originally from Oklahoma and his only connection to this state is that lousy TV show he did (I've met numerous Texas Rangers, and they are nothing like the character he played). Sure, it may have emulated Texas values, but it was way too campy to be taken seriously down here. It would be the same as thinking the old Batman TV show (which rocked, by the way!) from the 60s was real!

Not everyone down here are like Hank and Peggy Hill (but I gotta admit they do characterize many old school Texans I have met!).

Cheers! M2
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Old 04-18-2009, 09:29 AM   #7
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I believe that some members are owed an apology. Reverse racism is applied here daily and it is not a good sign.

People with the power have abused it and thrown it into people faces.

The TX thing is not new..... there have been threats like that in New England for quite some time.
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Old 04-18-2009, 10:00 AM   #8
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I believe that some members are owed an apology. Reverse racism is applied here daily and it is not a good sign.

People with the power have abused it and thrown it into people faces.

.
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Old 04-18-2009, 10:24 AM   #9
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The primary reason is that the posts moved from political to personal. When a moderator comments in any post in the capacity of a regular member then he/she can no longer remain objective and surrenders the ability to "moderate" in that thread.

I enjoy the fact that eTiMaGo who is French.... living in Thailand.... with an American quote in his signature participates. Someone has to keep the Canadians and Aussies in check!!!!

Keep this in mind..... we (members in the USA) pay the politicians salary.... we have the right to get upset ....... we pay for it!
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Old 04-18-2009, 11:22 AM   #10
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And just to show that you can't completely generalize a politician by their party, the following has re-invigorated my faith in some members of the Democratic party...

Quote:
Wednesday, March 18, 2009

Today in a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder, 65 Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives, led by Congressman Mike Ross (D-AR), expressed their opposition to the reinstatement of the failed 1994 ban on semi-automatic firearms and ammunition magazines. These congressmen cited numerous studies that proved the 1994 ban was ineffective, and they strongly urged Attorney General Holder to stop his effort and instead focus on the enforcement of existing gun laws.
to those who decided to represent their constituents, and not the views of some in their party! This is a major bipartisan move on some in the Democrat party, and I hope the GOP not only recognize this but also ensures those representatives receive due credit!

Cheers! M2
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Old 04-18-2009, 11:45 AM   #11
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Keep this in mind..... we (members in the USA) pay the politicians salary.... we have the right to get upset ....... we pay for it!
Its just astounding the rest of the world at what poor losers the republicans are to the point that various factions want to succede from their own country. just lighten up its just another president whos reign will come and go just like the rest and America will still be a great place to live when he's gone.
On a recent trip to Florida i noticed a media phenomenon that the rest of the world doesnt see and thats shows like Rush Limbaugh,Glen Beck,Hannity,Coulter, and a plethora of others who are making big bucks by trashing the countries new president on a daily basis and inciting the defeated republicans with every mannor of trashtalk they can think up.

eTiMaGo you may regret opening up this political can of worms.
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Old 04-18-2009, 11:48 AM   #12
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<snip>

one of other reasons I like Texas so much is it is a very pro-gun state. Now, I also understand that not everyone feels that way; but I would still like to hear your non-hostile reasons for your opinion, just so we can discuss the issues and not attack anyone personally. It is far from being a cut-and-dry topic, as there are valid arguments for both sides; but in my opinion I believe there was clear intent on the part of our forefathers for including the Second Amendment in our Constitution, and I do not believe any administration should have the right to put restrictions on that which has been clearly stated in the governing document for this country!
Guns - a fun topic, and for some reason VERY contentious over here.

Let me explain my own background first, as itr has bearingon my opinions. I was born in the States, but was moved to England at the age of 5. I grew up there, thinking Limey and sounding Limey and generally not worrying much about the fact that I was a US citizen all the time.

In the UK, whe nI lived ther, you could have a gun if you wanted, but you needed a license. Famrers could have shotguns or rifles for pest control or sporting reasons, target shooters could have target guns, and so on. BUT - you needed to have each gun registered and a license to own it.

Then came Dunblane, and all kinds of guns were outlawed, including the very guns and ammunition used in Olympic pistol shooting. The whole British team had to practice in France.

In 1984, I moved to the States again, with an English wife and kids. I reclaimed the .22 target rifle I used while briefly at college here, a Winchester 52, and over time (we lived on a arm) added a 20ga shotgun and a couple of "sporting" rifles to the collection. I joined the NRA so I could shoot competitively, but un-joined when every week saw another rabid pro-gun advert, or another invitation to "protect my rights" by giving $$ to the Legal Fund.

My own view is that all guns should be registered. Just like cars. Do you bitch about having to register a car? Probably not - it is just one of those things you accept. I know some municipalities have a limit on how many cars you can own without being termed a "fleet" and being subject to an addition tax or license. On the island I live on, there is a limit to how many dogs you can own without being considered a "kennel" and having to apply for a license. This is small-town politics, and I can easily see a town saying "register your guns, but if you have more than (say) 20, we will consider you an "arsenal" and you wil need a special permit". Again if you are not breaking the law with them, then you have nothing to fear (except NRA-style paranoia).

I would register all of my guns in a heartbeat, but the local PD does not have a protocol for that.

My 2-cents.
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Old 04-18-2009, 12:06 PM   #13
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I see a difference between the registration of cars (which are to be used on public roadways) and the registration of guns (which normally are not used in public). I fully agree with the need to have a license to conceal carry, once again the protection of the public is the primary driver in requiring that, but honestly what business is it of the government what guns I own?

OK, let me provide a little background on myself before people incorrectly assume I am a right-wing nutjob, I was born in Germany to an American father and naturalized mother who was a German national. I spent a fair bit of my youth in Europe and more time after I joined the Air Force after high school. I have been stationed in Europe several times and still travel back there once or twice a year. But I have since retired after nearly 25 years in the military but I still work for the DoD as a contractor. So my mindset is heavily influenced not only by where I live (Texas) but also where my history lies (Europe). As you know, when it comes to guns, those two heavily conflict; but at least I am familiar with both sides of the argument.

So, having spent nearly a quarter of a century defending the very Constitution that gives Americans the right to own firearms, I strongly believe the government has no right to interfere with that. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say we have the right to drive cars, mainly because cars didn't exist when it was written but it still hasn't been added.

Firearm registration has no use unless it is for future confiscation of said weapons. It did in Canada. The handgun registration law of 1934 was the source used to identify and confiscate (without compensation) over half of the registered handguns in 2001. It also did in Germany. The 1928 Law on Firearms and Ammunition (before the Nazis came to power) required all firearms to be registered. When Hitler came to power, the existing lists were used for confiscating weapons. Also in Australia, where in 1996, the Australian government confiscated over 660,000 previously legal weapons from their citizens. And even in the US, in California. The 1989 Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act required registration. Due to shifting definitions of “assault weapons,” many legal firearms were confiscated by the California government. Also in New York City. In 1967, New York City passed an ordinance requiring a citizen to obtain a permit to own a rifle or shotgun, which would then be registered. In 1991, the city passed a ban on the private possession of some semi-automatic rifles and shotguns, and “registered” owners were told that those firearms had to be surrendered, rendered inoperable, or taken out of the city. It happened in Bermuda, Cuba, Greece, Ireland, Jamaica, and Soviet Georgia as well.

It also does not prevent crime or help in solving it. Registration is required in Hawaii, Chicago, and Washington D.C. Yet there has not been a single case where registration was instrumental in identifying someone who committed a crime.140 Criminals very rarely leave their guns at the scene of the crime. Would-be criminals also virtually never get licenses or register their weapons. It didn't happen in in Canada. Canadian homicide rates were virtually unchanged before and after gun registration requirements were implemented (151/100,000 people in 1998 and 149/100,000 in 2002).

I have the sources for all those stats, I just didn't feel like listing them all; but if you are interested they can all be found at GunFacts.info

The government does not require me to license any other dangerous instrument that I own (ax, hammers, lawn mowers, etc), so why my firearm?

And I am a registered gun owner in Texas, by virtue of having a concealed handgun license; but there is no firearm registration here and many believe that they shouldn't require the state's permission to carry a firearm as that right has already been provided by the Second Amendment. In some ways that is a very compelling argument!

Cheers! M2
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Old 04-18-2009, 12:18 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Its just astounding the rest of the world at what poor losers the republicans are to the point that various factions want to succede from their own country. just lighten up its just another president whos reign will come and go just like the rest and America will still be a great place to live when he's gone.
On a recent trip to Florida i noticed a media phenomenon that the rest of the world doesnt see and thats shows like Rush Limbaugh,Glen Beck,Hannity,Coulter, and a plethora of others who are making big bucks by trashing the countries new president on a daily basis and inciting the defeated republicans with every mannor of trashtalk they can think up.

eTiMaGo you may regret opening up this political can of worms.
Well I am not the most politically-savvy person around... I admit I enjoy taking potshops at W as much as anyone else, but on the other hand I often ask myself if it;s really fair, how would Gore have handled 9/11 and its aftermath? (or more scarily, would it have even happened?)

So in the same line of thinking, I don't quite understand all the ragging on Obama.. Sure, he made a lot of promises (what politician doesn't?), but he's only been in office for what, 3 months and people are clamoring for instant hope and change... Give the guy some time is all I say.. What if McCain had won? Would he have turned the world economy around by now?

And that's just the problem with politics, no matter what happens, there'll be a large group of people opposed to it and making noise (or worse, look at the events over here in the past year). Heck, wasn't it Lincoln who said you can only please some of the people all of the time, or all of the people some of the time?

I mean, think about it... The only way to get everyone to stop bitching is for money and high paying jobs to fall out of the sky... the world does not really work that way, sadly!
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Old 04-18-2009, 12:20 PM   #15
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Sail

I see a difference between the registration of cars (which are to be used on public roadways) and the registration of guns (which normally are not used in public). I fully agree with the need to have a license to conceal carry, once again the protection of the public is the primary driver in requiring that, but honestly what business is it of the government what guns I own?

<humungous snippage>

And I am a registered gun owner in Texas, by virtue of having a concealed handgun license; but there is no firearm registration here and many believe that they shouldn't require the state's permission to carry a firearm as that right has already been provided by the Second Amendment. In some ways that is a very compelling argument!

Cheers! M2
I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here.
I know we don't HAVE to do that in this thread, but maybe we can set the standard.
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Old 04-18-2009, 01:17 PM   #16
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Old 04-18-2009, 01:39 PM   #17
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I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here.
I know we don't HAVE to do that in this thread, but maybe we can set the standard.
I am good with that, I appreciate your inputs and respect your opinion; and I believe you are doing the same for me.

I don't think the goal should be to sway everyone to one side of a topic or another, but instead to post their beliefs and supporting evidence. If after reading the submissions a person changes their stance, that's great; but the desired result should be that everyone gets to state their opinion.

Cheers! M2
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Old 04-18-2009, 01:47 PM   #18
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must ... resist... urge... to argue. lol. man this thread is tempting. still i'm not gonna do it. i think this is a bad idea for the record but i do hope everyone remains somewhat civil. i'll be following the thread nonetheless.

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