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Old 02-15-2018, 12:46 AM   #1
David C
 
Drives: White '07 3dr LB
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Rear wheel hub assembly replacement

Today while adjusting my rear drum brakes I noticed the rear driver side hub & bearing assembly had develop a slight play (which confirmed my suspicions that the bearing was nearing its end of life by hearing a slight noise 2 months ago when swapping tires). It's not critical yet, doesn't heat up or loud, but I'd like to take care of it before it goes any further. I'm thinking of doing both sides since they shouldn't have that much difference in wear ? The other side is fine beside a very slight drag that is smooth and constant, like an over greased bearing, but no noise or play. I don't know if they are stock hubs or have/when they were replaced as I only bought the car 2 years ago. It's a 2007 hatchback with 210k km.

I found a pair of Detroit Axle hub and bearing assembly with ABS for $100 USD (dealer ask $300 CAD each). Knowing Detroit Axle is somewhat a big player in hub and bearings, I don't see why it wouldn't be up to par with Toyota OEM.

Anyone here who did this job could advise on details regarding new mounting bolts and if I should use blue Loctite 243 or copper grease on the bolts during reassembly ? Also I'm somewhat concerned about the drum backing plate as its rusted after 10 years and I'm hoping it's not gonna be crumbling down in the process, I really don't want to start messing with replacing a backing plate and brake lines, bleeding, etc.

Thanks !
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:26 AM   #2
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I opted to go with Moog hub assemblies as they have a good track record in our climate. Found them off of eBay new for $70 USD. I believe they were almost $300 before taxes locally.

I can't speak to the Detroit axle brand as I've never used them. I just know from reading online that Moog's last a decent amount of time.

My backing plate wasn't in too bad of shape and wasn't rusted. I decided to use copper anti seize instead of blue loctite and torque the bolts according to their specs. Never had an issue with them looseing even after track use. I rechecked them and they were all fine.

If this is your first time removing the hub from the axle then chances are it will be seized to the axle beam. I had to use an air chisel and on blaster to get mine off. I covered the full mating surface with anti seize before I installed in and now it comes in and off seamlessly.

I'd recommend you have access to an air hammer/chisel and a bfh before you start the job. Soak it in penetrating oil for a while before as well.
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Old 02-18-2018, 05:14 PM   #3
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What about the 4 mounting bolts ? Do you have the specs on hand so I can order them or are they only available trough the dealer ?

I found a Moog hub with ABS for a good price on eBay, but before ordering I'd like to also know where I can get the bolts.

Thanks
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Old 02-18-2018, 05:22 PM   #4
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I don't know about the bolts as i reinstalled with penguin spacer hardware which come with their own bolts.

The originals looked in fine shape though so I would be surprised if they needed replacing. It will probably be a dealer only part unless you take an old bolt to a hardware store and see what they have.

I'll have to look in the repair manual for torque specs But iirc it was either high 30's or high 60's. I'll post back when I find out
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Old 02-18-2018, 05:24 PM   #5
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67 ft/lbs is the torque spec
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Old 02-18-2018, 06:04 PM   #6
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I've got the manual too (from the forum).

I'd still love to have spare ones on hand in case I have to wreck one or more during removal. Plus it doesn't hurt to have new ones on if possible. I'll call my dealer's part guy tomorrow and ask him about the bolts. Surely they have them in stock since they do stock the ABS hub assembly.
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Old 02-18-2018, 08:08 PM   #7
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You would be surprised at what toyota dealers don't have. They didn't have a 2zr thermostat or gasket when I went the other day...
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Old 02-18-2018, 09:08 PM   #8
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I haven't been to a car dealer often enough in my life to know. Only a few times and I usually call ahead and it's a 2 business day lead time usually when they have to order. They've been pretty good so far with all my needs and questions.
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Old 02-19-2018, 12:35 PM   #9
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$5/each for the hub bolts ($20 per side), special order 2 days lead time. The part guy said they never had to replace one, they always managed to get them out intact and he's been there for over 10 years.
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Old 02-19-2018, 01:53 PM   #10
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I see M10x1.25mm, 30mm length, flange head hex bolt class 10.9 zinc plated from Moogs and ACDelco, advertised as 4 packs hub mounting bolts for Matrix, Corolla, Versa, Cube and Vibe. Wondering if the Yaris uses the same bolts too or similar. I know from experience that M10x1.25 bolts aren't readily available in zinc plated flange head 10.9 configuration in my area, but I do have 8.9 black phosphate hex bolts in M10x1.25 on hand (back from my driver seat swap) as a make shift if they fit. Any chance you kept the old bolts around to post the specs ?
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Old 02-19-2018, 06:20 PM   #11
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I likely have the old bolts but they would be in my bolt bin so it's a crap shoot whether I grab the correct ones or not.

The penguin hardware is a black hex bolt like you mentioned above.

As a side note, if you have a seized on brake backing plate google a diy puller you can make. I had to do this and found someone who posted their idea from a toyota mini van with the same set up.

I can't remember the set up but I believe it only cost me a few bucks in a long bolt but and different sizes spacers
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Old 02-19-2018, 06:46 PM   #12
David C
 
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Normally I shouldn't have to remove the backing plate if I only change the hub, no ? Isn't the backing plate between the hub and beam ?

I was thinking about making a slide hammer and hooking it up to the studs, using iron angles and a steel shaft, then some dumbbell weights with a buffer at the end of the shaft.
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Old 02-19-2018, 07:56 PM   #13
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I had the same question regarding the backing plate as well and can't remember. All I remember is I never needed to remove the plate when I installed my hub spacers but i did have to remove the plate when i put new hubs in.

Iirc, I think it was because the plate was seized to my oem hubs so it didn't matter when I installed the spacer behind them but it mattered when putting in New hubs.

A slide hammer may work If it's at least a 10 pounder. But to play it safe I'd recommend having an air chisel/hammer close by
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:31 PM   #14
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I have all of those amenities at home. The backing plate could very well be seized to the hub, that's true. Hopefully it won't be too hard to get them both free without damaging the plate.
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Old 03-14-2018, 04:46 PM   #15
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So today I went to my Toyota service dealer (Alix Toyota in Montreal) to get the hub bearing assembly replaced since it started getting a lot looser and loud pulsing friction sound under braking and we're getting hit with snow so no can do myself out in my yard.

I had a weird experience with the staff who handled my case, as in the rep kept saying my bearing was in perfectly good shape and it was only both rear ABS sensor harness that were rusted out (he was very insisting on the whole problem being the ABS rather than the loose hub assembly for the reason why I was wanting to get my hub bearing assembly replaced). He said the tech said both bearing had the be replaced at first, but after asking him the same question in different ways, the reason for the tech opinion of the bearing replacement was due to the ABS sensor being rusted out on the connection, and not for the physical/mechanical integrity of the hub.

When I asked if the tech saw how much play the hub had, the rep said he didn't checked prior to taking the wheel off and that both bearing where fine. He even asked me if I was certified in Toyota stuff for me to say the hub bearing assembly had to be replaced lol. Of course not, but if you can move your wheel sideways it's usually an indication that the hub is loose, and in this case the hub and bearing are into the same assembly, so even if the bearing runs fine, it doesn't stop the hub from being loose and eventually fail.

He also insisted to detail the whole situation as he spoke off on the work order.

Since they put the old hub bearing assembly back in the box I brought the new one with, I'm tempted to mount it on a board and bring it back to show him how much play there was xD I mean in a way he was right, the BEARING was okay, but the whole assembly wasn't. Plus I kept telling him I didn't cared about ABS components being rusted out and that wasn't why I was bringing the car in.

Also the tech only took an hour from when he got the car from the lot till he brought it back, but charged 1.6h of work. I was quoted the job to take 1.5 to 2h, so I'll go with it since it could have taken longer anyway. He also said there no warranty on the work done today since it wasn't a Toyota part (it was a Moog), even on labor. And on the bill he gave me it's clearly written that warranty for repairs are 3 months/5000 and 24m/40000km of its a Toyota part.

I wouldn't say it was a bad experience, since the job was done as I asked, no extra charges or broken parts, it was done within the quoted time frame and they even gave me back the old assembly as well as diagnose both rear ABS sensors and harness. Just a weird one and I guess funny.

IMG_2337.JPG
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Old 03-14-2018, 05:06 PM   #16
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Hmm interesting for sure, thanks for sharing.

Definitely a bearing/hub failure as there is no other suspension parts in the rear that would cause the wheel to be loose (assuming the obvious that the nuts are properly torqued down).

But hey at least they gave you the bold parts. I always have recommended people request this as there have been too many stories of parts not being replaced.

I'm assuming your symptoms have gone away and the wheel is sturdy now?
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Old 03-14-2018, 05:33 PM   #17
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Well I forgot to ask for it, and the rep told me they scrapped the old unit (as in not usable anymore or already in the trash, wasn't sure at the time). When I got in my car I noticed the box was still there and when I poke it it add some weight, looking in it the old unit was there with the center note flange a little whacked, so I guess that's what he meant by scrapped, however I haven't pulled it out of the box yet to see if it's still useable as a show piece of good bearing/bad hub.

Obviously now the wheel is sturdy as the other side and no more noise or pulse when braking. Of course I made sure everything was properly torque before assessing it was the unit that had play. I mean I first suspected a little play on December 25th 2017 when I sealed wheels in Maryland on my way to Key West, and on January 5th 2018 when I put back the either wheels on in Maryland on my way home, there was a clear play in the wheel, however it was still small and you had to look for it. Last week when I jacked the rear to do my muffler, I noticed the play had increased and last weekend on a 170km drive it really started pulsing under braking (at first I thought my front caliper slider pins were stuck again, so I greased both front calipers sliders and hardware before hitting the road) but it didn't stop the symptoms from progressing. After paying really good attention to where the sound was really coming from, it was obvious that it came from the rear driver side wheel. And as you said, there isn't any other parts in the rear axle that could cause play in the wheel. I have to admit that I never checked the hub mounting bolts to see if they were loose, but I have the feeling the symptoms from loose hub bolts would have been radically different from the hub itself being loose (knocking and shaking).

And in the lot before leaving I went around the car checking for dings and scratch, and to confirm that they actually put my part in, everything was clear so I went home and jacked the rear sides to check both wheels were tight and smooth.

I never had a bad experience with them yet.
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Old 04-08-2018, 10:39 PM   #18
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So the report about the ABS trouble being only the rear hub sensors and harness got me thinking about finding a set of rear hub abs harness from the local scrap yard and swap both harness to see if it would miraculously fix the issue. On Friday I got my hands on pristine harness from a Yaris that just came in the scrap lot and on Saturday did the swap (I swear they couldn't have placed the interior connectors in more hurtful location, I got deep cuts all over my hands from the sharp sheet metal, blood stains everywhere by the time I noticed), then jumping pins 4 and 13 of the OBDII port and clearing the ABS light, still had code 33 popping up, which was rear passenger side hub malfunction. So today I went back to the same car I took the harness from and also got the hub assembly (that I ironically removed and left there on friday). Then I did the swap at home and tadaa no more ABS lights on the dash ! (After clearing the code once again). It was awfully easy to change the hub, bolts weren't stuck and the hub broke free without too much banging, backplate broke free with only moderate hammer action on a drift punch, no wonder the shop tech did the other side in less than 45 minutes in and out, it barely took me an hour doing it in my yard without a lift. My only concern is I have no clue about the wear of the hub bearing assembly I took from the donor car, so I kept the one I removed in a safe place. Knowing now how easy it will be to change it again and that it doesn't require much tooling, I'm not afraid of doing it roadside if it start failing during my roadtrip.

Now I'll just have to pull the fuse out when I go drifting since the ABS is back online :p
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