screw more psi in the tires.

[supmet]

@bailout

60 psi WILL increase tire wear and WILL decrease traction. end of story. I'm not arguing this one. Go find me one auto crosser who runs 60 psi on their yaris.

and again, the tunnel vision of hypermiling is coming into play. What about all the added stress on suspension, suspension mounts, engine mounts, transmission mounts, interior trim pieces, pretty much the entire car???

I suppose the 20 dollars a year(again) you are saving will pay for all of that??

If you want the all important MPG, and that's ALL you are worried about, listen to every word bailout says. If you are interested in the total cost of something, I suggest doing your own research.

[GeneW]

Brian is especially correct about hypermilers having different needs from tires than the usual consumer. A tire which is inflated to 60psi is probably not safe for use at speeds over, let's say, sixty miles an hour. To the hypermiler such speeds are beyond the pale, and hence for them a higher pressure is safer.

Gene

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by supmet

Go find me one auto crosser who runs 60 psi on their yaris.

This is the fuel economy forum. For discussions on autocross please see the racing forum. If you can get any of the folks over there to test anything other than a butt dyno please let me know.

Originally Posted by supmet

What about all the added stress on suspension, suspension mounts, engine mounts, transmission mounts, interior trim pieces, pretty much the entire car???

What about them? In over 6 million miles of road testing not one driver has ever reported early suspension component replacement or interior trim pieces jumping off or mounts/bushings failing. Those kinds of events are usually related to things like autocross.

Originally Posted by supmet

I suppose the 20 dollars a year(again) you are saving will pay for all of that??

Please show your math as I cannot tell when your amount of $20 came from. Most Yaris drivers average 32 MPG. I average about 48. Over the 17k miles I drive each year that saves 177 gallons of fuel. At a price of $2.25 per gallon that saves me about $400 per year.



supmet, I'm not sure why you continue to hang out in the fuel economy forum as you don't seem to have much interest in it and you consistently deride the practices of those that do. You seem to thrive only on misinformation and alarmism and continue to do so in the face of mountains of data and practical examples that contradict you. Please feel free to frequent other parts of the forums that are more in line with your personality and personal desires.

[supmet]

Originally Posted by BailOut

This is the fuel economy forum. For discussions on autocross please see the racing forum. If you can get any of the folks over there to test anything other than a butt dyno please let me know.

You are the one the said you get better handling at 60 psi than 32. Don't back out now!

Originally Posted by BailOut

What about them? In over 6 million miles of road testing not one driver has ever reported early suspension component replacement or interior trim pieces jumping off or mounts/bushings failing. Those kinds of events are usually related to things like autocross.

Uhm, because hypermilers don't report ANYTHING but MPG? And most of the cars that you use for your "scientific data" haven't been on the road long enough to see the damage you are doing.

Its pretty much elementary physics. You aren't absorbing as much energy with the tires = more energy gets transferred into the suspension and chassis. To completely write this off is irresponsible.

Originally Posted by BailOut

Please show your math as I cannot tell when your amount of $20 came from. Most Yaris drivers average 32 MPG. I average about 48. Over the 17k miles I drive each year that saves 177 gallons of fuel. At a price of $2.25 per gallon that saves me about $400 per year.

You are the king of fuzzy math, and that's my biggest problem with you. Ok, you save 400 dollars a year over the average, but that includes EVERYTHING YOU DO, not just over inflating your tires. 20 dollars may be low, but I'm betting you'd still have to go years to cover the cost of a SINGLE engine mount.

Originally Posted by BailOut

supmet, I'm not sure why you continue to hang out in the fuel economy forum as you don't seem to have much interest in it and you consistently deride the practices of those that do. You seem to thrive only on misinformation and alarmism and continue to do so in the face of mountains of data and practical examples that contradict you. Please feel free to frequent other parts of the forums that are more in line with your personality and personal desires.

What mountains of data? I keep hearing about these 6 million miles of data, but I bet you don't have complete service records for any of the vehicles included in the data set.

And I like getting better gas mileage. That's why I post here. I just like to get the WHOLE story - not the tunnel vision story that hypermilers THRIVE on.

[voodoo22]

Originally Posted by supmet

And I like getting better gas mileage. That's why I post here. I just like to get the WHOLE story - not the tunnel vision story that hypermilers THRIVE on.

Tunnel vision applies to people who tailgate, race to the next light and drive only with themselves in mind. Tunnel vision applies to the sheep who follow without questioning and crying that the sky is falling anytime someone claims the earth is not flat.

People whom you label hypermilers can only attain optimal performance by paying attention to their entire environment, maximizing their safety level while enhancing their mpg.

You can say what you want, but until you have experience on both sides of the fence you're simply making statements with nothing to back them up but you're opinion.

Fact is, Brian is right and you're wrong. You don't have to accept that, but hopefully your ignorance will not mislead others interested in facts proven by real world experience.

For people who want to learn and not buy into conjecture; check out posts by Brian and check out cleanmpg.

[07WYarisRS]

here's a thought... go talk to the guys at the tire shops, see what they say about tires that are over or under inflated... ask them if it affects the mileage of the tires..
I have no intrest in what the local kids are doing and what they think work.. I want facts... I have yet to have my tire suppliers tell me to double my air pressure to increase my mileage... why? because what I save in a year running on over inflated tires i'll spend on tires the following year when these are pooched.

tire pressure is very important...
how do i know?
I'm a mechanic (motorcycle) Sure most of my background is racing, bikes and offroad but tires are tires people.
The number one cause of tire damage on motorcycles is caused by incorrect tire pressure, cupping and tire deformation is most common.
I can't tell you how many times owners have come to me complaining of poor hadling or poor tire life...guess what...tire pressure is usually the cause or part of the cause.
then there is the traction issue, with a motocycle even 2-3 psi cam make a HUGE difference. Usually not as noticable at slow speed when the foot print/contact patch is the largest and tire temps are cooler. The same applies to Auto tires though

A tire at 60psi ..what is that at highway speeds when the air temps increase...its dangerous. if it were not for the steel belts in the tire holding it together it would likely explode when you hit a pot hole. Do you really think the tire remains the same shape at slow speeds as they do at highway speeds/

I enjoy the great fuel mileage, but come on... if it means that much to you go with a smaller set of 13" pie cutter tires like the geo/sprints had.

BTW a simple tire tread depth gauge will easily show you what over inflating tires does as far as uneven wear.. you can't always see it just standing there with you arms folded staring at the tire sayin nope no wear yet!
Most people never notice tire cupping or a shifting belt until they have a bald patch or the tire deforms and starts causing vibrations

FWIW I followed the mileage group on the Ford focus forums... I had an 03 with 155km... I JUST got my second set of tires last fall at 120,000km. I ran 35psi The hypermilers on the same sight running even 44-50psi were getting 60-80k km to a set.
figure that into the math... with the 1-2mpg less I may have got and what I saved using synthetics etc.. I bet it cost more buyin tires every 2 years for them.

[Rick]

Strange, when I took my Cobra through the Bondurant school of high performance driving they REQUIRED that my tires be inflated to sidewall max. Not negotiable.

I have the stock Goodyears that Toyota puts on the 15" steelies. My three-door hatch is a hopeless, hapless disgusting pig in the corners with 32 psi in the tires. The TRD rear sway bar helped some, but running 51 psi front and 50 psi rear makes it dry corner like it's on rails. That's only six psi higher than sidewall max. These tires are wearing evenly so far as well. I'm not saying that any old tire can accomplish that though.

Also, most of the pothole related tire failures I've seen were the result of the sidewall being pinched (crushed) between the road and the wheel. Higher tire pressures should make that harder to accomplish.

[supmet]

Originally Posted by voodoo22

Fact is, Brian is right and you're wrong. You don't have to accept that, but hopefully your ignorance will not mislead others interested in facts proven by real world experience.

WHAT FACTS? No tire manufacturer will recommend double PSI. No car manufacturer will. There are at least 3 people in this thread alone that have seen increased tire wear with increased PSI.

www.tirerack.com

If a vehicle's tires are overinflated by 6 psi, they could be damaged more easily when encountering potholes or debris in the road, as well as experience irregular tread wear.

But its all a conspiracy huh?? I'll bet you thebarber and supmet work for the big oil companies.

[b_hickman11]

I think Obama is behind it all.....

[ka0sx]

Originally Posted by b_hickman11

I think Obama is behind it all.....

lol

[thebarber]

Originally Posted by Rick

Strange, when I took my Cobra through the Bondurant school of high performance driving they REQUIRED that my tires be inflated to sidewall max. Not negotiable.

i was under the impression you raise the pressure a bit so the sidewalls flex less under heavy cornering...im kinda surprised they put it at the max....but maybe the tires have a level of safety built into the "max pressure"?

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by voodoo22

Tunnel vision applies to people who tailgate

...actually that's not true. A good tailgater drives at least two, maybe three cars beyond their victim. You have to have your empathy dailed up to ten to see where they might brake so that you can brake before they do.

If all you do is look at the bumper of the person ahead of you it's a matter of time before you feel it.

Gene

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by Rick

Strange, when I took my Cobra through the Bondurant school of high performance driving they REQUIRED that my tires be inflated to sidewall max. Not negotiable.

Bet you had high heat rated tires too. It helps.

Originally Posted by Rick

Also, most of the pothole related tire failures I've seen were the result of the sidewall being pinched (crushed) between the road and the wheel. Higher tire pressures should make that harder to accomplish.

If you're talking catastophic failures I could not say. If you're talking belts breaking, that's another topic. Don't know if higher pressures would help or not. I pays my money and takes my chances at factory pressure settings.

[TheUnGroomed]

Originally Posted by GeneW

...actually that's not true. A good tailgater drives at least two, maybe three cars beyond their victim. You have to have your empathy dailed up to ten to see where they might brake so that you can brake before they do

There are no good tailgaters!


I have very little experience with tire wear. I'm still on my original tires on my Yaris, and I had two sets on my old Elantra. When I first got the Elantra it had new Potenza G009s on it. I kept them at the pressure Hyundai recommended. After a few months the outer edges wore down quite a bit. My next set of tires were Falken ZE-512s. I played with the pressure until I found a comfortable psi, which was 40 psi. After 63,000 miles the treads had barely worn down at all.

I found the ride in the Yaris to be comfortable at about 42 psi on the stock Eagles. 9,000 miles in all is well.

I've been consulting this site for tips: http://www.carbibles.com/tire_bible_pg2.html Scroll down about 2/3 of the page.

Your results may vary!

[voodoo22]

Originally Posted by supmet

WHAT FACTS? No tire manufacturer will recommend double PSI. No car manufacturer will. There are at least 3 people in this thread alone that have seen increased tire wear with increased PSI.

www.tirerack.com

If a vehicle's tires are overinflated by 6 psi, they could be damaged more easily when encountering potholes or debris in the road, as well as experience irregular tread wear.

But its all a conspiracy huh?? I'll bet you thebarber and supmet work for the big oil companies.

No, I don't think the big oil companies would hire you to represent them and I fail to see anywhere where I stated double psi or conspiracy. You don't seem too hung up on being accurate anyways, so your misquotes come as no surprise.

If you actually did research and tried things out you could find the truth out for yourself. Posting a link from a reseller proves nothing. Believe what you want. I know I believe the over $700 savings in gas costs alone, and improvement in MPG by 15% since I started to slowly test, confirm and then apply the knowledge and techniques appropriate to my driving conditions and car, shared by people such as bailout. I'm also looking forward to seeing how many thousands of km's past mtbf I can go on my tires which show very little wear after 30k of 44-60psi.

[voodoo22]

Originally Posted by TheUnGroomed

I've been consulting this site for tips: http://www.carbibles.com/tire_bible_pg2.html Scroll down about 2/3 of the page.

Your results may vary!

Thanks for posting that link, looks like an interesting read.

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by YarisOwnersDad

I agree with you, except for the point you made about the footprint not being changed until the tires have been run at highway speeds.

I grant you, the footprint will get smaller when the tires are warm, which causes the psi to go up by two or three pounds over cold pressure, but if the footprint is already reduced by over-inflation, then it will become even smaller at the higher temperatures.

At least that's my understanding. I don't claim to be a tire expert.

(But... I DID stay at a Holiday Express last night.)

Tom

You'll get an instant change in the footprint. Get a tape measure reading of what's hitting the pavement @ 32psi, then run it up to 60psi and see how the tire gets up on its tippy-toes.

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by supmet

@bailout

60 psi WILL increase tire wear and WILL decrease traction. end of story. I'm not arguing this one. Go find me one auto crosser who runs 60 psi on their yaris.

and again, the tunnel vision of hypermiling is coming into play. What about all the added stress on suspension, suspension mounts, engine mounts, transmission mounts, interior trim pieces, pretty much the entire car???

I suppose the 20 dollars a year(again) you are saving will pay for all of that??

If you want the all important MPG, and that's ALL you are worried about, listen to every word bailout says. If you are interested in the total cost of something, I suggest doing your own research.

True. 60psi is all about getting best mpg by going with extreme measures, has nothing to do with keeping wear, handling, braking, mpg and comfort levels all at normal and safe levels.