Swaybar vs. lowering springs

[eht13]

Wondering about the benefits of a rear swaybar vs. lowering springs, if one were to do just one of these and not both. I know that the swaybar should help with stability and tighter cornering, while lowering springs apparently also accomplish this by lowering the ride height and being stiffer than the stock springs. The other feature of the springs would be the cosmetic change, which a swaybar does not affect. Any other considerations, or thoughts as to which would be better to do if one were to do just one of these modifications? Thanks.

[aeipee13]

a sway bar is a good place to start so you can learn to properly control your car. the springs will make you feel like you are driving better than you really are. In other words, "hide" your mistakes in line, breaking, acceleration, etc.. Not that a sway bar doesn't do the same but I feel a sway bar helps with stabilizing while still being able to learn how to control weight transfer during cornering.

for me, i always start with good tires and move to a sway bar, then suspension changes. it boils down to what YOU want. From my point of view learn how to drive from a stock level and slowly make changes that YOU feel will make YOU a better driver.

[thebarber]

springs > rsb

reason? rsb will make the car handle better, sure, but springs will make it handle better AND look nicer

[eht13]

Thanks for the replies so far. I guess it does kind of come down to "handling only vs. handling and appearance". Just wasn't sure if the handling part was essentially equal for both. Also meant to ask about long-term reliability; do both a swaybar and lowering springs (for example TRD) have decent long-term life, or would the springs possibly wear out faster than the stock springs would, or even cause the stock shocks to wear out faster than they would otherwise? If I were to do either, I would probably want to do it and keep it that way for a while... not have to tinker with it more down the road than I would have had to do otherwise. Thanks again.

[thebarber]

both will last longer than you'll own the car

[Loren]

I'd take it a step further and break it out into "levels" of handling. There's the level that most people driving within on the street, and there's the level that people get into in competition (autox or track) and sometimes on twisty mountain roads and such.

For street performance, it's more about "feel". The "perception" of better handling. Quicker steering response, less body roll, that sort of thing. Either springs or a rear swaybar will reduce body roll and improve steering response, giving the driver the perception of better handling.

BUT... when you get to actual "at the limit" handling, you're likely to find that the rear swaybar is the better bet. Why? Because with the exception of one or two coilover kits, most aftermarket spring sets raise the front spring rates a lot more than they do the rear. That takes care of the body roll, but by making the front stiffer than the rear, it shifts the handling bias more towards understeer.

Take the same car, leave the stock springs and just put a rear swaybar on it and you've shifted the handling bias toward oversteer (okay, toward "neutral"), which will actually make the car handle better at the limit.

I can't help you on the asthetics question. That's all in the eye of the beholder. I like the look of a slightly lowered car, but given the choice between true performance (proper balance and some ride height for the suspension to work in) and the illusion of performance (slammed to the ground and stiff as a board), I'll take performance every time!

So, you really need to analyze your personal goals to make the decision that is right for you.

[tk-421]

I say save some more and get both. It will be worth it.

[Loren]

Originally Posted by tk-421

I say save some more and get both. It will be worth it.

You may be onto something there. Don't forget shocks. A good set of shocks makes more of a difference (in true handling improvement) than lowering springs.

[1.5]

if you get lowering springs pair them up with some good shocks and then get the sway bar on top of it and for under a grand youll have a ride that will look a lot better and handle a lot better. But if I were to chose just one it would be the springs only because I love the look of a lowered car.

[eht13]

Thanks for all the feedback... some food for thought here.

[aeipee13]

in the end you should end up with good tires, springs, struts, and a sway bar. good tires will make the car feel better with any combo of just springs, sway bar and springs, and so on. if you got springs before a sway you may not "feel" what the sway actually does.

sway bar->struts->springs (tires at any point) would be the way to go.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Here's my take:

-Stock springs and shocks = boat on water
-Tein S.Tech springs and TRD strut in front, OEM shock in rear = handling is HORRIBLE (still riding on the crappy Eagle LS tires)
-Tein S.Tech and TRD shocks all around (Eagle LS) = good handling, but there's still noticeable understeer
-S.Tech's, TRD shocks, 205/40/17 Parada Spec-2 tires = better grip, less understeer
-S.Tech's, TRD shocks, 205/40/17 Ziex 912 tires = slightly less grip, a little more understeer
-S.Tech's, TRD shocks, and TRD rear sway bar (with the 912's) = A LOT more neutral

Don't forget, tire choice plays a role in handling. There's no point in having the best suspension set up if you have poor gripping tires.

[Mister Z]

what would be the best sway bar to go with? isn't thicker better?

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by Mister Z

what would be the best sway bar to go with? isn't thicker better?

Yeah, I would think so. The TRD is 19mm thick, I think. So a 23mm one will help rotate the car better and possibly lead to some oversteer, so if you do get a 23mm, get used to it first before going all out.

[auxmike]

The TRD bar is fantastic. It's my only suspension mod. It really tightens up on turns so you don't get barrel roll. Should have been standard from the factory.
I paid $150 for it. It's pretty simple to install.

[41magmag41]

I don't understand buying a economy car then dumping thousands of dollars into it to up grade the handling and looks. Why not take the money and buy a more expensive car that has all these things and be good to go from the start. Just a thought. Besides you will never recoup the cost of the upgrades when you trade the car. I bought a yaris for a good basic transportation that doesnt cost me an arm and leg. Just an old farts opinion

[Loren]

I'm an old fart, and I get what you're saying... which is why I refuse to spend $3k on a supercharger kit. But, even with $1000-1500 worth of suspension, my Yaris cost me less than $12k. What else could I possibly buy that would handle as well AND have all of the other plusses of a Yaris (size, weight, economy, reliability, etc) for the same price?

Arguably, if I bought a new Yaris today and put $5,000 of upgrades into it, it would still be a great value compared to the rest of the market.

I can't address the ridiculous amount of money these kids spend just on cosmetic mods, but from a functional/value perspective, things like well-considered suspension and power-related mods make sense to me.

Could you buy a better performing car? Sure... but you're either going to get an older car (and give up the warranty that comes with a new Toyota) or spend a lot more money. And you still won't touch the fuel economy of the Yaris!

[why?]

i didn't buy the yaris because it was an economy car, i bought it because it was what I wanted. It is just a side benefit that i can get 38 mpg.

Anything worthwhile in the sporty car segment is at least 6 or 7 grand higher, and can't touch the fe.