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Old 01-19-2017, 10:18 PM   #1
Aclosefriend
 
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Gear grinds into 3rd after it has warmed up

Bought the car with 65k miles. Noticed slight grinding sometimes when engaging into reverse and really bad shuddering when letting the clutch out into 1st when the car was cold.

I changed the tranny oil with Royal Purple and the clutch shudder in 1st gear went away as did the grinding into reverse. For the last 10k miles or so(82k on it now) I have noticed 3rd gear grind really bad if I quickly shift from 2nd to 3rd. It never grinds if you put it in neutral for a second or two, let the RPMs fall and then ease it into 3rd. It doesn't grind when the car is driven cold, it only grinds after it has warmed up and you shift into 3rd really quick.

I am worried that either the syncro went or changing the tranny fluid dislodged some sludge and is causing problems. I have heard rumors of that happening if you have gone far too long without changing the fluid, but I feel like that shouldn't be the case if changing on schedule. Is it possible that the royal purple gets too thin when it warms up and is causing problems?
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Old 01-20-2017, 01:46 AM   #2
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Make sure the clutch is adjusted within spec and isn't grabbing close to the floor.

Your description of grinding going into reverse indicates your clutch is sticking.
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Old 02-15-2017, 11:21 PM   #3
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Ok. Good info. I have run into this problem on dozens of cars in the fleet I manage. I replace about 55% of the transmissions at 80k mi to 100k miles. Almost all of them are loss of second gear syncro a few 3rd gear. The other 45% a clutch change fixes the problem. The fact that you have a grind going into reverse, a shudder when engaging the clutch from start and you are new to the car and do not know the history are excellent info. Also all good news, some bad. The good news is its very likely that you fall in the minority %45 that a new clutch will fix. I'm 100% sure a clutch change will drastically improve your problem. If it will fix it entirely? I'm pretty sure. I give it better than 80%. The sooner you get the clutch replaced the less damage to the trans.
Here is what is going on:
The previous owner was very hard on the clutch or did not know how to drive a stick. They slipped it often and excessively. This heated up the clutch components. This warped the pressure plate the fiber disk and damaged the flywheel. Probably heat tempered these parts and they lost there "spring" or grab making the problem worse. I know this by your description of the chattering when engaging the clutch. That indicates warpage and overheating. The 3rd gear grind and grind going into reverse. This indicates the clutch is not fully disengaging because the parts are warped and that has increased there lateral run-out to the point they cannot fully disengage.
The solution:
Replace the clutch pressure plate, throw out bearing, fiber disk with the best parts you can get. Preferably OE Toyota parts. Have the flywheel machined at the same time. You will loose some if not all of that expensive fluid. That sucks. But like I said the sooner the better. This I am betting will fix it. At the very least it will greatly improve all of your problems. Good luck



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Old 02-15-2017, 11:34 PM   #4
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Fwiw clutch shudder in first gear when cold is a common issue for yaris oe clutches. The grinding in reverse is also common if it happens here and there I'm pretty sure the reverse gear has no synchro and that is the reason for that.

As for you grinding going into 3rd, well that is likely an issue that was stated above or a synchro could possibly be worn. Tough to say without driving the car. But if you're used to a Honda m/t and are new driving a yaris m/t then you'll notice the shudder in the cold/wet and the occasional grind into reverse
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Old 02-16-2017, 12:25 AM   #5
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The cold/wet starts in first gear is a common issue. You can get rid of it by letting the clutch slip for a few seconds with no throttle input just to warm it up.

The transmission should NEVER grind going into reverse provided the car is not rolling. Reverse is an idler gear that pushed between two other straight cut gears.
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Old 02-16-2017, 08:56 AM   #6
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Third gear synchro Corolla Yaris five speed manual

Fast shifts and wasted shifts (while approaching every stop to help the brakes or just feel sporty) wear out synchros. Also, clutch not fully disengaging...floormat? needs bled? driver doesn't push pedal enough?
My 91 Corolla had a bad 3rd gear synchro at 100k miles when I got it and it is no worse now at 168k on unchanged fluid. I wait for the engine to slow to synchronizing speed on downshifts, double clutch, shift 2-4 on upshifts, or stay in 3rd more at lower speeds instead of dropping to 2.

Last edited by dogsridewith; 02-16-2017 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 02-16-2017, 01:25 PM   #7
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What Royal Purple did you use? RP Synchromesh is NOT the correct oil and will grind in first and every other gear when you revert high.

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Old 02-16-2017, 02:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluevitz-rs View Post
The transmission should NEVER grind going into reverse provided the car is not rolling. Reverse is an idler gear that pushed between two other straight cut gears.
well now you got me all confused. It was my understanding that m/t vehicle commonly grind in reverse depending on the position of the wheels relative to the trans. (this is why sometimes you can't shift into reverse and then you let the vehicle roll very slightly and then it's fine)

My '02 Accent did the same thing occasionally and my Yaris always has as well and neither had any trans issues.

Based on what you're saying as this not being normal or healthy, what would/could the cause of this be?
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Old 02-16-2017, 02:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aclosefriend View Post
Bought the car with 65k miles. Noticed slight grinding sometimes when engaging into reverse and really bad shuddering when letting the clutch out into 1st when the car was cold.

I changed the tranny oil with Royal Purple and the clutch shudder in 1st gear went away as did the grinding into reverse. For the last 10k miles or so(82k on it now) I have noticed 3rd gear grind really bad if I quickly shift from 2nd to 3rd. It never grinds if you put it in neutral for a second or two, let the RPMs fall and then ease it into 3rd. It doesn't grind when the car is driven cold, it only grinds after it has warmed up and you shift into 3rd really quick.

I am worried that either the syncro went or changing the tranny fluid dislodged some sludge and is causing problems. I have heard rumors of that happening if you have gone far too long without changing the fluid, but I feel like that shouldn't be the case if changing on schedule. Is it possible that the royal purple gets too thin when it warms up and is causing problems?
Everybody with the manual trans should bleed their clutch once a year or thereabouts.

It may or may not fix your current problem but it will reduce the liki=likelihood of future ones...
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