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Old 06-16-2009, 12:40 AM   #1
PHXDEMON
 
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Adjusting rear camber??

A couple days ago I installed the 13mm penguin rear hub spacers. Needless to say my prolems with the rear tires rubbing the inner fender on bumps got worse and it is hitting metal which scares me I have gone to the extent of sticking rubber pieces in the springs (DF210s) to stifffen them up, removing the plastic linging from the inner fender, rolling my fenders, and filing some metal from the inside of the wheel well. My options at this point are to either.

A. Get skinnier tires (expensive)

B. See if I can get someone to trade me 10mm spacers for my 13mm's

C. Adjust the rear camber so it clears (hopefully an inexpensive mod)

Anyway I was wondering if there is an easy and relatively cheap way to adjust the rear camber without coilovers.
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Old 06-16-2009, 12:58 AM   #2
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garm has camber shims in his online store that im sure you could use in junction with the spacers
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:06 AM   #3
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garm has camber shims in his online store that im sure you could use in junction with the spacers
Like these? How do they work?

http://shop.microimageonline.com/pro...4&productId=77
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:07 AM   #4
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Coilovers wouldn't do a thing for adjusting rear camber.
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:15 AM   #5
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I've seen Tamago mention in a couple of threads that you can put some washers in with the hub bolts to change your rear alignment. You could look into that if you really need to adjust it.
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Old 06-16-2009, 12:36 PM   #6
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add washers to the lower two bolts that go from the brake assembly to the rear hub. Depending on the thickness of the washers you can adjust for more toe in/out (in add a thicker washer to the lower back bolt; toe out add a thicker washer to the lower front bolt) The washers need to be large enough in the center for the bolt to pass through them, I'd take one of the bolts (and something like this to check the thickness of the washers to ensure even pairs to both sides)to Home Depot/Lowes to check the washers
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Old 06-16-2009, 12:43 PM   #7
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rear alignment shims for the Yaris can be found at Napa for $30 each
you just have to pay the going rate for an alignment
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Old 06-16-2009, 12:48 PM   #8
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rear alignment shims for the Yaris can be found at Napa for $30 each
you just have to pay the going rate for an alignment
unfortunately they're plastic.

i use 1/2" stainless steel flat washers (about .060" thick) under the lower bolts. install then drive to the alignment rack, and then torque to achieve desired camber/toe.

stainless washers can be had at Ace hardware. i buy mine 25 at a time from Fastenal.

you will have to grind one edge of the washer flat so that it clears the hub.

if interested, i will sell anyone here 4 stainless washers (two each side) that are already ground and ready to install for $8 shipped in the continental US.
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Old 06-16-2009, 04:58 PM   #9
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So just to clarify install washers in between the actual hub spacer and the back of the drum on the bottom two bolts correct?
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Old 06-16-2009, 05:25 PM   #10
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curious what size rims and offset you have and tire tize as well

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHXDEMON View Post
A couple days ago I installed the 13mm penguin rear hub spacers. Needless to say my prolems with the rear tires rubbing the inner fender on bumps got worse and it is hitting metal which scares me I have gone to the extent of sticking rubber pieces in the springs (DF210s) to stifffen them up, removing the plastic linging from the inner fender, rolling my fenders, and filing some metal from the inside of the wheel well. My options at this point are to either.

A. Get skinnier tires (expensive)

B. See if I can get someone to trade me 10mm spacers for my 13mm's

C. Adjust the rear camber so it clears (hopefully an inexpensive mod)

Anyway I was wondering if there is an easy and relatively cheap way to adjust the rear camber without coilovers.
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Old 06-16-2009, 06:24 PM   #11
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Pics of your setup?
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Old 06-16-2009, 08:20 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by PHXDEMON View Post
So just to clarify install washers in between the actual hub spacer and the back of the drum on the bottom two bolts correct?
yes, between the hub and the spacer. bottom two bolts only.



ONLY IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING, AND YOU'VE REACHED THE POINT WHERE YOU CAN'T GET THE CAR TO ROTATE TO YOUR LIKING,
you can get rid of some of the toe out by putting one under the front lower bolt only :)
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I hate people like you (xbgod) because your the reason I don't come to this board. You spout nonsense and lies and people who don't know any better hold you in high regards because they can't tell the wheat from the chaff.
you nailed it sir.

Last edited by Tamago; 06-16-2009 at 09:20 PM.
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Old 06-16-2009, 08:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
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yes, between the hub and the spacer. bottom two bolts only. if you wanted to get rid of some of the toe out, put one under the front lower bolt only :)
Two quick thoughts. One is that in the OE configuration, the clamping force of the hub bolts is spread evenly over the entire hub mating surface. Inserting washers concentrates that force in the area of the washers during hard cornering. Not something I'd worry about when using steel washers between two steel mating surfaces... but insert a softer piece of aluminum in there and it's something to at least be thinking about. I would inspect after a few months to be sure that the washers aren't eating into the aluminum.

The other thought is that just putting a SINGLE washer on the front lower bolt is asking for trouble. You have four bolt holes, the one with the washer will make contact, the one opposite will make contact, and the first of the other two that you tighten will make contact... the last one either will NOT make contact, or something is going to have to BEND equal to the thickness of the washer for it to make contact. Not good.

If you want to adjust both camber AND toe with washers, you need four washers. Two under the bottom bolts (to kick the camber out) and two under the front bolts (to kick the toe out). The end result will be TWO washers under the lower front bolt, one under the bolt above it and one under the bolt behind it, and all mating surfaces will be a lot closer to mating up without bending anything.
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Old 06-16-2009, 08:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loren View Post
Two quick thoughts. One is that in the OE configuration, the clamping force of the hub bolts is spread evenly over the entire hub mating surface. Inserting washers concentrates that force in the area of the washers during hard cornering. Not something I'd worry about when using steel washers between two steel mating surfaces... but insert a softer piece of aluminum in there and it's something to at least be thinking about. I would inspect after a few months to be sure that the washers aren't eating into the aluminum.

The other thought is that just putting a SINGLE washer on the front lower bolt is asking for trouble. You have four bolt holes, the one with the washer will make contact, the one opposite will make contact, and the first of the other two that you tighten will make contact... the last one either will NOT make contact, or something is going to have to BEND equal to the thickness of the washer for it to make contact. Not good.

If you want to adjust both camber AND toe with washers, you need four washers. Two under the bottom bolts (to kick the camber out) and two under the front bolts (to kick the toe out). The end result will be TWO washers under the lower front bolt, one under the bolt above it and one under the bolt behind it, and all mating surfaces will be a lot closer to mating up without bending anything.
agreed.

i've had the single washer under the front lower bolt (and with aluminum spacers) for 3 years of autocross and have had no issues. so, while in the perfect world it's not recommended, it DOES work without causing any real issues.

like i stated before. install these washers and take the car to the alignment rack.
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I hate people like you (xbgod) because your the reason I don't come to this board. You spout nonsense and lies and people who don't know any better hold you in high regards because they can't tell the wheat from the chaff.
you nailed it sir.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:01 PM   #15
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like i stated before. install these washers and take the car to the alignment rack.
I'll second that.

A little bit of rear toe-out goes a long, long way and can make the car quite scary to drive. I wouldn't recommend it at all for a strictly street-driven car, there is no need for it. And I'd add the caveat to any of this that if you don't know what you're doing or why you're doing it, DON'T do it.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:19 PM   #16
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I'll second that.

A little bit of rear toe-out goes a long, long way and can make the car quite scary to drive. I wouldn't recommend it at all for a strictly street-driven car, there is no need for it. And I'd add the caveat to any of this that if you don't know what you're doing or why you're doing it, DON'T do it.
while my car is within spec it is still slightly toe-out (1/8" total, 1/16" each side) and just as loren stated, if you dont' know what you're doing, dont' do it. i personally LOVE the way my car handles, but i've also taken the risk into my own hands by doing this modification. i apologize for stating it above like it was a common practice
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Originally Posted by xnamerxx
I hate people like you (xbgod) because your the reason I don't come to this board. You spout nonsense and lies and people who don't know any better hold you in high regards because they can't tell the wheat from the chaff.
you nailed it sir.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:44 PM   #17
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Not to be argumentative, but toe-out on the rear of a Yaris is NOT in spec at all. The factory spec is .11" total toe in plus or minus .12", so anything more than .01" of toe out is out of spec.

The thing about rear toe is that it allows the rear of the car to "steer" around a turn. It's not inherently dangerous, necessarily... you won't really notice it in normal driving. But, it feels REALLY weird (same feeling you get when the car is about to spin) when it does begin to happen. Could lead to driver compensating with a countersteer when it isn't required, and THAT could be dangerous.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:56 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loren View Post
Two quick thoughts. One is that in the OE configuration, the clamping force of the hub bolts is spread evenly over the entire hub mating surface. Inserting washers concentrates that force in the area of the washers during hard cornering. Not something I'd worry about when using steel washers between two steel mating surfaces... but insert a softer piece of aluminum in there and it's something to at least be thinking about. I would inspect after a few months to be sure that the washers aren't eating into the aluminum.
The other thought is that just putting a SINGLE washer on the front lower bolt is asking for trouble. You have four bolt holes, the one with the washer will make contact, the one opposite will make contact, and the first of the other two that you tighten will make contact... the last one either will NOT make contact, or something is going to have to BEND equal to the thickness of the washer for it to make contact. Not good.

If you want to adjust both camber AND toe with washers, you need four washers. Two under the bottom bolts (to kick the camber out) and two under the front bolts (to kick the toe out). The end result will be TWO washers under the lower front bolt, one under the bolt above it and one under the bolt behind it, and all mating surfaces will be a lot closer to mating up without bending anything.

I actually thought about installing washers like that but didn't because I was concerned about this and the overall structural integrity of the rear suspension.
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