Toyota Yaris Forums - Ultimate Yaris Enthusiast Site
 

 


 
Go Back   Toyota Yaris Forums - Ultimate Yaris Enthusiast Site > Technical Forums > DIY / Maintenance / Service
  The Tire Rack

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-24-2015, 01:52 AM   #1
Katooshy
I've made a post!
 
Drives: 2002 Toyota Echo
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 1
2002 Echo Crank, No Start, No Spark, Immobilizer

Hi all

Would appreciate your help in diagnosing my 2002 Toyota Echo NCP10R, manual, 3 door hatch:

- cranks, but will not start
- battery is fine (and headlights etc work)
- fuel pump is fine
- recently serviced (a few weeks ago)
- immobilizer light continues to flash with key in the ignition (tested all three keys);
- engine check light is not coming on at start
- no spark
- fuses and EFI relays all look fine
- have had the car since 04 with no prior trouble
- no modifications of any kind

Car stalled in traffic, started again, went forward 100m and stalled again - now will not start at all.

Mechanic thinks it might be the ECU, but cannot confirm this. Any ideas? Any way to rule out the ECU or confirm that this is an ECU fault?

Many thanks

Last edited by Katooshy; 11-24-2015 at 02:11 AM.
Katooshy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2015, 06:04 AM   #2
CTScott
ULTIMATE
 
CTScott's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 5dr LB, 2x 08 3dr LB
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: USA, CT
Posts: 13,460
The Toyota Techstream diagnostic tool would help in figuring out what is wrong and if it is indeed a bad ECM.
__________________
CTScott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2015, 08:31 AM   #3
tmontague
 
tmontague's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Caledonia Ont.
Posts: 2,938
If it isn't the ECU/immobilizer than look into a bad ground. There are 2 on the drivers side of the engine block near the front of the engine.

This causes this issue on my '02 Echo twice. It caused the ignition to not work (no spark). Th car would start when hooked up to a scan tool that had its own power source (the ECU was grounding through it instead), once disconnected the car would stall out.

Although my Echo doesn't have an immobilizer the issue sounds the same
__________________
No one ever wants to give a Yaris the point by...
tmontague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2015, 11:18 AM   #4
Andrinik
 
Drives: 1sz fe
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Minsk
Posts: 11
I have the same problem with Yaris 1999 year.
Please, point what contact should be grounded. In my case engine and all wires are out of car now. Bad ground looking as most possible reason, I think...
To Katooshy: did you found the real reason?
Andrinik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2015, 12:50 PM   #5
tmontague
 
tmontague's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Caledonia Ont.
Posts: 2,938
There are two grounds on the engine block on the left side (drivers side) just to the front of the block. They come off of the large wiring loom that that fuel injector wires come off of. It I the 2 grounds for all of your ignition wires.

You will need small fingers and a head lamp to access it. Use the 10mm socket with an extensions and you'l b able to remove the 10mm bolt that holds each ground to the block.

Inspect them and then lightly grind them down to clean the contcts and re attach.

In my case it wasn't wasn't conact but the actual metal loop conact at the end which is crimped to the ground wire was loose and therefore the wires didn't have good contact. I had to recrimp and then everything was fine.

When a scan computer that has it's own power supply was hooked up to the car it would start and run fine. Once diconnected t car would stall out. This is because the ecu was grounding through the scan tool.

This will only work if your scan tool has its own power supply. a tool like an ultragauge won't work because they only run when the car is running.

FYI both ground are in the same spot, one is about 1" above the other. Check them both.
__________________
No one ever wants to give a Yaris the point by...
tmontague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2015, 12:53 PM   #6
tmontague
 
tmontague's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Caledonia Ont.
Posts: 2,938
Oh, and if you find out the solution take the 2 seconds to post on here what fixed it. People don't mind helping but pay it forward so other can learn/fix th own similar future issues. It's just ignorant to post 1 or 2 times on a forum and ask for help and then fix the problem and never come back to state the solution.

*this isn't aimed at anyone specific, just general rant*
__________________
No one ever wants to give a Yaris the point by...
tmontague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2015, 01:24 PM   #7
tmontague
 
tmontague's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Caledonia Ont.
Posts: 2,938
Here is a pic I was able to find on my phone. It doesn't show the best view of the block, but it give you an idea of where the grounds are located (circled in red)

__________________
No one ever wants to give a Yaris the point by...
tmontague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2015, 01:36 PM   #8
Bluevitz-rs
1NZ-6spd
 
Bluevitz-rs's Avatar
 
Drives: '05 6-Spd Vitz RS
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,966
I also had the problem with the ground. I forgot to tighten it after replacing the engine. Car ran for 1300km and one day driving down the road just totally died.
Bluevitz-rs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2015, 02:32 PM   #9
tmontague
 
tmontague's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Caledonia Ont.
Posts: 2,938
I found it surprising at how important the grounds are. Needless to say I learned my lesson and that will always be one of things first things I check
__________________
No one ever wants to give a Yaris the point by...
tmontague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2015, 03:58 PM   #10
Andrinik
 
Drives: 1sz fe
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Minsk
Posts: 11
Update:

Yaris 1999. The long time (6 month) was without battery.
Now: Key is inserted, but immo light still flashing. Battery is ok. Starter is ok.
I've checked the ECU ground, relay, fuses, wires. All is ok.

Important question: Transponder get 12V on B+ from EFI Relay only on scheme!
(Please, see the scheme attached).
In my case EFI Relay doesn't close the contacts 5 and 3. No with inserted key, neither in "on" key position.
How transponder (immo) can read the signal from key without power?
What element is blocked by immobilizer in the ignition circuit?
May be someone may explain the scheme... and give any ideas why engine doesn't work?
Attached Images
File Type: gif Immo.gif (44.7 KB, 85 views)
Andrinik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2015, 07:24 PM   #11
CTScott
ULTIMATE
 
CTScott's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 5dr LB, 2x 08 3dr LB
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: USA, CT
Posts: 13,460
MREL is supposed to be powered when the ignition switch is in the ON position. Check for 12 volts on pin 2 of the EFI relay with the ignition switch on. If it is there, then the EFI relay is bad.
__________________
CTScott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2015, 01:19 PM   #12
Andrinik
 
Drives: 1sz fe
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Minsk
Posts: 11
Checked pin2 EFI relay: 0 volt.
Pin5=12 volt. No depending on key position.

Batt pin1 on ECU=12 volt.
Pin7 on ECU grounded with key inserted.
I've checked the wire from pin5 EFI to pin2ECU. It is ok.

So, no any volts on pin1 of transponder, because it after EFI relay.
Immo light flashing. Always.
Andrinik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2015, 09:09 PM   #13
CTScott
ULTIMATE
 
CTScott's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 5dr LB, 2x 08 3dr LB
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: USA, CT
Posts: 13,460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrinik View Post
Checked pin2 EFI relay: 0 volt.
Pin5=12 volt. No depending on key position.

Batt pin1 on ECU=12 volt.
Pin7 on ECU grounded with key inserted.
I've checked the wire from pin5 EFI to pin2ECU. It is ok.

So, no any volts on pin1 of transponder, because it after EFI relay.
Immo light flashing. Always.
You could try bypassing the EFI relay, by jumping 5 to 3. With MREL not having power with the key inserted, there is more likely an ECM or power to ECM issue.

I would also check on the ignition switch connector:

White/Light blue - 12 V constant power
White/Red - 12 V constant power

Black/Yellow - 12 V with Ignition in ON position
Black/Red - 12 V with Ignition in ON position
__________________
CTScott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2015, 02:05 PM   #14
Andrinik
 
Drives: 1sz fe
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Minsk
Posts: 11
Update

Update:
Thanks to CTScott, I bypassing EFI.
Next changes: MREL is 12 v!
Immo light is not flashing with inserted key. So, immobilizer is ok, I guess. I'm happy!!
And one more great news: check engine appears on display. So, I hope ECU is is fine?
But what next? Without bypassing I have the same problem.
Andrinik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2015, 06:33 PM   #15
CTScott
ULTIMATE
 
CTScott's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 5dr LB, 2x 08 3dr LB
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: USA, CT
Posts: 13,460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrinik View Post
Update:
Thanks to CTScott, I bypassing EFI.
Next changes: MREL is 12 v!
Immo light is not flashing with inserted key. So, immobilizer is ok, I guess. I'm happy!!
And one more great news: check engine appears on display. So, I hope ECU is is fine?
But what next? Without bypassing I have the same problem.
OK - If bypassing the EFI relay worked, then that is a good sign. Next check the wires, which I mentioned on the ignition switch connector.
__________________
CTScott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2015, 03:40 AM   #16
Andrinik
 
Drives: 1sz fe
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Minsk
Posts: 11
The wires colors are not matched (with you mentioned) in my case on ignition connector.
So, see attachment. Would you like to copy, your post, but point PIN numbers (no colors) .
I made diagnostic this connector as described in manual. Checked continuity between pins in different key positions. I did it without battery. All was ok.
Today in evening will make procedure you described - voltage measure.


P.S. Yesterday I've found 1 not grounded wire on ECU, because connector was broken. The wire come from ECU thorough Check Connector (Power Steering) to ground. I have no idea what it is exactly in English and how important this one. I grounded it, but nothing happen.
Attached Images
File Type: png Power source.png (146.5 KB, 62 views)
Andrinik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2015, 08:55 AM   #17
Andrinik
 
Drives: 1sz fe
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Minsk
Posts: 11
I've checked on the ignition switch connector: all is ok.
So, it seems to be a ECU failure.
In internet I did find out that +12V should appear on MREL pin (ECU) if 2 condition are true:
1.+12 V on Batt
2. +12 V on IGSW (Key in "on" position)
In my case there isn't any volt on MREL when key in on position, unfortunately
Andrinik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2015, 09:25 AM   #18
Bluevitz-rs
1NZ-6spd
 
Bluevitz-rs's Avatar
 
Drives: '05 6-Spd Vitz RS
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,966
So have you tried a new relay yet?
Bluevitz-rs is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
no start: engine immobilizer random issues the_teach DIY / Maintenance / Service 4 04-13-2015 07:55 AM
Spark plug gap for 04 echo donnysdayoff DIY / Maintenance / Service 2 01-16-2014 08:56 PM
viper 5901 replaced battery, crank but no start yogi In Car Entertainment + Electronics (audio / video / alarm) 1 03-25-2013 08:15 PM
Worst Cars of the 2000s (#4. Echo) MadMax General Yaris / Vitz Discussion 34 11-12-2009 10:41 AM
download for 2002 Echo Hatchback Owner's Manual hoobyjuice DIY / Maintenance / Service 8 07-03-2009 08:28 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:07 AM.




YarisWorld
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.