Toyota Yaris Forums - Ultimate Yaris Enthusiast Site
 

 


 
Go Back   Toyota Yaris Forums - Ultimate Yaris Enthusiast Site > Technical Forums > DIY / Maintenance / Service
  The Tire Rack

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-11-2006, 04:20 PM   #1
Kitt
 
Kitt's Avatar
 
Drives: Thndr cl metallic HB 3 drs '05
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Panama City, Panama
Posts: 792
Send a message via MSN to Kitt
Dual ground electrode spark plugs

Can anyone tell me if the dual ground electrode spark plugs will consume more fuel than the single ground electrode?



cheers-
__________________
10 years... alive and kickin'!!
Kitt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2006, 11:02 PM   #2
jeff_o
 
Drives: 07 Yaris
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Cedar Knolls, Morris County, New Jersey
Posts: 97
Send a message via ICQ to jeff_o Send a message via MSN to jeff_o Send a message via Yahoo to jeff_o
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitt
Can anyone tell me if the dual ground electrode spark plugs will consume more fuel than the single ground electrode?



cheers-
I don't think so.. i believe it will just optimize combustion. some say will give more power becuase of 2 sparks than 1.
jeff_o is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2006, 12:26 AM   #3
johnnyfive
 
johnnyfive's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 Yaris S
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Milwaukee WI
Posts: 582
it may consume a small amount more fuel, but only fuel that would have been thrown out the tail pipe anyways...and that may not even be the case at all...would be more than likley that there will be no difference without a different spark program...
johnnyfive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2006, 11:40 AM   #4
Teruyume
 
Teruyume's Avatar
 
Drives: 06 Yaris RS
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 120
Send a message via MSN to Teruyume
Voltage always trying to find the easiest path to ground, a duel electrode plug still won't fire 2 spark at a time it will just find 1 path.

when compairing a brand new single or duel electrode plug they have totally exactly identical performance, but when it's aging carbon build up wearing of the point happens, the duel will tend to have double the life cuz spark doesn't just occuring at the same tip.
__________________
06 Yaris RS 2Dr HB 5MT Orange
Blitz Compressor
Apexi Power Intake
GP Racing GR-6 15x7
Kumho Ecsta AST 195/50R15
Tanabe DF210
JDM LED Tail lights
Teruyume is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2006, 12:58 PM   #5
07WYarisRS
HardlyDangerous
 
07WYarisRS's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 Yaris LE, H/B, auto
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ridgeway Ontario
Posts: 574
he's right

there will not be any powergain
however proper plug indexing may be a problem and the 2nd ground strap may block the spark more then with a single ground strap plug.

IMO use a fine wire plug like an iridium or platinum and don't worry about the hype from other plug designs
__________________
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
07WYarisRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2006, 04:18 PM   #6
jeff_o
 
Drives: 07 Yaris
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Cedar Knolls, Morris County, New Jersey
Posts: 97
Send a message via ICQ to jeff_o Send a message via MSN to jeff_o Send a message via Yahoo to jeff_o
Quote:
Originally Posted by 07WYarisRS
he's right

there will not be any powergain
however proper plug indexing may be a problem and the 2nd ground strap may block the spark more then with a single ground strap plug.

IMO use a fine wire plug like an iridium or platinum and don't worry about the hype from other plug designs
how does iridium or platinum help? they don't corrode easily? they're all metals though.
jeff_o is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2006, 01:04 PM   #7
Teruyume
 
Teruyume's Avatar
 
Drives: 06 Yaris RS
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 120
Send a message via MSN to Teruyume
platinum last about 100K iridium last about 150k but either of them won't have any different when they are brand new.

anyway if u want a stronger spark u have to get a better ignitor, plug's won't do u much
__________________
06 Yaris RS 2Dr HB 5MT Orange
Blitz Compressor
Apexi Power Intake
GP Racing GR-6 15x7
Kumho Ecsta AST 195/50R15
Tanabe DF210
JDM LED Tail lights
Teruyume is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2006, 08:44 PM   #8
07WYarisRS
HardlyDangerous
 
07WYarisRS's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 Yaris LE, H/B, auto
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ridgeway Ontario
Posts: 574
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_o
how does iridium or platinum help? they don't corrode easily? they're all metals though.
The more dense the metal the less power is lost, and the less the wear on the electrodes. Less power loss = stronger spark. The more efficient the plug the easier it is on the rest of the electrical system.,
Iridium displaces heat better then standard copper core or platinum plugs so there is far less chance of plug errosion, spacing and insulator seperation, gapping and cracking etc. And this better heat displacement also helps eliminate hot spots in the combustion chambers that can cause pre-ignition/detonation.
Most important is the firing tip design. The Fine wire design allows the plug to maintain a sharp crisp edge for sure fire ignition everytime. With standard firing tips one the firing tip is worn and lost its sharp edges the spark becomes erratic.

Performance wise there is very little performance gains between NEW standard copper, platinum and iridium plugs, however over time with iridium plugs you maintain the performance where copper core plugs start to wear out. Most Copper core plug firing tips round off and start to wear to the point of needing replacment around 8-10,000 miles.
With iridium plugs every 100,000 miles
__________________
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
07WYarisRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2009, 04:39 PM   #9
LittleRed
LittleRed
 
Drives: 2008 Yaris Hatchback 5spd
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Elmira, NY
Posts: 29
As much as pluse plugs are contriversal...i took out the original iridium tip plugs and put the pulse plugs in...the 1st set ended up having a flaw in it< apparently the insulator was too thin where the capacitor is..causing the insulator to burn up..the flaw is corrected now>..and someone said that it burns up coils...well i have had them for 20k now..have had no problems and can definately tell a difference..as i had to put the original ones back in until i got the replacement plugs from pulseplug..i put the new set in..and can tell a big difference in power..
LittleRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2009, 09:48 PM   #10
mimelio
 
mimelio's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 Yaris HB Automatic
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Rome, New York
Posts: 95
I used Bosch +4 plugs in a friends 2002 Echo and it actually gave it more punch (slightly) and a bit better gas mileage I changed them out for NGK Iridium plugs (on sale with rebate) after 50,000 miles with no problems.

mimelio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2009, 10:26 AM   #11
TheSilkySmooth
 
TheSilkySmooth's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 3DR 5M Bayou Blue; 09 Fos
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 625
Multiple electrode designs are for old mechanical distributer/coil ignition aircraft for failsafe reasons. They will have LOWER performance than the OEM Ir plugs and may even damage the ignition system. They are crap. Basch platinum and multi electrode plugs are crap. Their Standard copper electrode plugs are excellent for older applications. Like Dads 396 Camaro or Moms 429 Ford LTD.
TheSilkySmooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2009, 10:59 AM   #12
TheSilkySmooth
 
TheSilkySmooth's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 3DR 5M Bayou Blue; 09 Fos
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 625
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimelio View Post
I used Bosch +4 plugs in a friends 2002 Echo and it actually gave it more punch (slightly) and a bit better gas mileage I changed them out for NGK Iridium plugs (on sale with rebate) after 50,000 miles with no problems.
Usually any car will respond to new plugs unless the heat range is way off or the electrode gap is off. One month down the road will tell a bigger tale. The ford dual-ended coil resonant ignition will spark the bosch plug - the toyota tiny coils will be toast. They NEED an easy to spark plug and the Ir fit the bill. Ir with small electrodes is biggest advance in plug design in 100 years. I racing we MADE our own plugs. Big secret - can't say anymore or Dick Childress will kill me ...
TheSilkySmooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2009, 06:11 PM   #13
mimelio
 
mimelio's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 Yaris HB Automatic
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Rome, New York
Posts: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilkySmooth View Post
Usually any car will respond to new plugs unless the heat range is way off or the electrode gap is off. One month down the road will tell a bigger tale. The ford dual-ended coil resonant ignition will spark the bosch plug - the toyota tiny coils will be toast. They NEED an easy to spark plug and the Ir fit the bill. Ir with small electrodes is biggest advance in plug design in 100 years. I racing we MADE our own plugs. Big secret - can't say anymore or Dick Childress will kill me ...
Performance isn't as good with the new Iridium plugs...I have a couple friends one ran his Echo 150,000 miles on +4's and the other over 200,000 on his Tercel with no issues.
mimelio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2009, 06:31 PM   #14
TheSilkySmooth
 
TheSilkySmooth's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 3DR 5M Bayou Blue; 09 Fos
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 625
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimelio View Post
Performance isn't as good with the new Iridium plugs...I have a couple friends one ran his Echo 150,000 miles on +4's and the other over 200,000 on his Tercel with no issues.
Whats in there, NGK or Denso Ir? Didnt the Tercel have dual coil ignitor?

Dyno chart or three 1/4mil runs back to back with New Ir vs New Bosch +4? OTW its all seat of the pants. Really I cant complain about seat of the Pants especially if they are size 6 Tight Jeans with holes

BAck to reality, Hey if you want MORE power and you did some mods like CAI and maybe header or fart can: go one Heat range COLDER (like 6 vs 5 in NGK) and file back GND electrode the open the gap another 0.1mm
TheSilkySmooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2009, 12:47 AM   #15
YarisSedan
 
YarisSedan's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 Yaris Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: California - Bay Area
Posts: 2,785
Send a message via AIM to YarisSedan
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilkySmooth View Post
Multiple electrode designs are for old mechanical distributer/coil ignition aircraft for failsafe reasons. They will have LOWER performance than the OEM Ir plugs and may even damage the ignition system. They are crap. Basch platinum and multi electrode plugs are crap. Their Standard copper electrode plugs are excellent for older applications. Like Dads 396 Camaro or Moms 429 Ford LTD.

Yeah i totally agree with you. My shop has boxes of boxes of bosch platinum crap plugs. The car will run but till have problems later. Usually resulting in missfires. Only shops that want comebacks use bosch plugs. Only car that seems to like them is maybe volkswagon. For import cars NGK and Denso are the way to go. Ever car i have ever changed a burnt out coil on when i remove the plug is always something that the car wasnt designed to run on a non oem plug. Like when people try to stick a autolite in a honda when its meant to run in a ford. And then wonder why they ahve problems later. Stay away from all those split fire fancy spark plugs you see for sale or on display at your auto parts store they are just gimmiks to get backyard mechanics to fall for them.

Stick to what is known to be true and good oem parts. Electricity is lazy. Meaning it will take the path of least resistance. Dosnt matter how many prongs there are if one is slightly bent cause it was dropped or just that way from the factory the spark will ignore all other prongs and jump that gap. I mean i guess someone figured well if one gap is good 2 must be better then someone decided well if 2 is good lets double it then 4 prongs will beat that manufactures plug! Whats next 8 prongs?


If you are worried just change your spark plugs early like every 75k miles. That wil linsure a clean electrode tip and proper gap consistantly. The plugs are our cars are so increadibly easy to change.
YarisSedan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2009, 12:08 PM   #16
TheSilkySmooth
 
TheSilkySmooth's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 3DR 5M Bayou Blue; 09 Fos
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 625
A lot of this plug non-sense is from aircraft ignition problems and Failsafe engineering. Many non-injected aircraft engines have a lean-rich mixture controller with exhaust heat readout and if you run a lean condition too long you may end up toasting a plug and then toasting yourself a few minutes later (the fall isnt bad its the pavement that hurts the most). The electrode redundancy is to keep you flying ( or on boats to get you to shore) . OTW the less crap shrouding the centre electrode the lower the misfire rate.
TheSilkySmooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:25 AM.




YarisWorld
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.