Shopping for Fuel Efficiency? Kelley Blue Book Suggests Waiting

[stevenfrank38]

There is a lot of consumer angst emanating from the unrest in the Mideast and disaster in Japan. And with that comes concern about rising fuel costs and a scramble for fuel-efficient vehicles. For those without a pressing need to replace their current vehicle, Kelley Blue Book – long known for its knowledge and analysis of the used car market – advises to hold onto what you currently drive. And that advice would be especially true if the vehicle you own and operate is a truck or SUV.

In their recommendation, KBB's team cited 2008, when gas prices exceeded $4 per gallon in some parts of the country. Many consumers reacted by selling what they perceived to be their gas-swilling large vehicles (suffering low trade-in values from a depressed market) and purchasing something more fuel-efficient at the top of its market. That process is expensive, especially if taking a hit of several thousands of dollars to dispose of a late-model SUV, when on an annualized basis your savings in driving an economy car may only be in the hundreds. As we noted recently, you should do the math before writing a check. The difference in cost of operation for a vehicle delivering twenty miles per gallon (over 15,000 miles) and thirty miles per gallon over the same amount of annual driving (even at $4/gallon) is only about $80 per month. KBB would seem to be right in advising caution before taking a loss on what you're currently driving – or paying a premium on that next 'small' thing.

[nemelek]

The cost of transportation is not cheap. Especially when buying and selling. The maintenance of an ageing vehicle vs "trouble free" miles of a new car also factor in. It's a lot better to respond than to react.

[swidd]

Seeing the prices of new engines passing around here, it seems I can buy a new yaris engine at least every few years for less than the annual payments on a new 40+mpg car.

[sbergman27]

Originally Posted by stevenfrank38

There is a lot of consumer angst emanating from the unrest in the Mideast and disaster in Japan. And with that comes concern about rising fuel costs and a scramble for fuel-efficient vehicles.

Americans have the attention span of a snail-darter. They buy F-150s and think that they have some sort of inalienable right to cheap gasoline, despite any suffering which might be going on elsewhere. They whine when gasoline goes over $3/gal... but as soon as gas prices come down, they forget all about it. Until the next time.

The trend, of course, is clear. Prices are rising. And "next time" is just around the corner.

I bought my 1988 Chevy Sprint Metro (EPA rating 54/58 mpg city/hwy) back in '92 and have kept it ever since. To be sure, my Yaris does well for fuel economy, too. But if all 4 of my cars fell into the river, and I could only save one... it would probably be my Sprint. In any particular driving situation, it gets about 25% more mpg than the Yaris.

Getting back from a trip to Colorado with an average of 57 mpg is so very satisfying.

-Steve

[Kal-El]

KBB is right. Always do the math before changing cars. Many people actually don't. Which is why many people pay $30K on a hybrid to save a few hundred bucks a year on gas.

Originally Posted by sbergman27

Americans have the attention span of a snail-darter. They buy F-150s and think that they have some sort of inalienable right to cheap gasoline, despite any suffering which might be going on elsewhere. They whine when gasoline goes over $3/gal... but as soon as gas prices come down, they forget all about it. Until the next time.

The trend, of course, is clear. Prices are rising. And "next time" is just around the corner.

I bought my 1988 Chevy Sprint Metro (EPA rating 54/58 mpg city/hwy) back in '92 and have kept it ever since. To be sure, my Yaris does well for fuel economy, too. But if all 4 of my cars fell into the river, and I could only save one... it would probably be my Sprint. In any particular driving situation, it gets about 25% more mpg than the Yaris.

Getting back from a trip to Colorado with an average of 57 mpg is so very satisfying.

-Steve

Problem is, is that the old Metros would never even come close to passing today's safety standards.

Even if you were to deactivate all of the airbags in a Yaris, the Yaris would still be far safer than an '88 Metro. In fact, a Smart ForTwo is far safer than an '88 Metro.

But safety aside, the Metro also has no power, no creature comforts, much less space, and rides like a tin can.

You just can't compare the mileage of a Metro to any modern car for those reasons. It would make more sense to compare a Metro to a motorcycle.

[sbergman27]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

Problem is, is that the old Metros would never even come close to passing today's safety standards. Even if you were to deactivate all of the airbags in a Yaris, the Yaris would still be far safer than an '88 Metro. In fact, a Smart ForTwo is far safer than an '88 Metro.

I'm calling for people to make informed choices when making their car purchases, but you seem more interested in defending the Yaris at any cost.

There is no such thing as an '88 Metro. There were. however 85 - 88 Chevy Sprints. And in '88 there was a model called the Sprint Metro, with an EPA rating of 54 city, 58 hwy. My Yaris' window sticker read 29/35.

You are probably thinking about the 89-94 Geo Metros. The '95-'99 Geo Metros and 2000 Chevy Metro, with their multiple air bags and perimeter reinforcement cages would likely have no problem meeting modern safety regulations.

But let's consider the significance of that for a moment. You are claiming that you have driven your Yaris 104k miles. I've driven mine 50k miles in the last year. I've driven the Sprint 370k miles, as well. 50k of those in the last 12 months. And I'm just as alive and healthy as you are. What has that additional safety actually bought you? In comparison to my driving experiences... nothing. Less than nothing, actually, since I have had a few "Oh my God! I'm going to die!" moments in the Yaris. None in the Sprint, however. The Yaris is a death-trap in ice and snow compared to the Sprint.

But safety aside, the Metro also has no power, no creature comforts, much less space, and rides like a tin can.

OK. So you are pulling out all the stops to defend your Yaris. Hey Bro, chill out. I'm a Yaris owner too. And I would definitely recommend the Yaris to others, even though it is far from the safest car on the market.

You just can't compare the mileage of a Metro to any modern car for those reasons.

Sure I can compare the mileage. My advice to you is not to drive your Yaris on the ice, and if you do, please take extra care. But if you do die on the ice, rest assured that I will try to consider that statistic in an objective manner.

The Yaris is, relatively speaking, a gas guzzler, compared to the Sprint Metro. That's on an objective scale.

On a subjective scale, I feel safer in the Sprint, although improved safety was a factor in my decision to purchase the Yaris. (I've been forced to admit that I was wrong on that count.)

-Steve

[Kal-El]

Originally Posted by sbergman27

I'm calling for people to make informed choices when making their car purchases, but you seem more interested in defending the Yaris at any cost.

There is no such thing as an '88 Metro. There were. however 85 - 88 Chevy Sprints. And in '88 there was a model called the Sprint Metro, with an EPA rating of 54 city, 58 hwy. My Yaris' window sticker read 29/35.

You are probably thinking about the 89-94 Geo Metros. The '95-'99 Geo Metros and 2000 Chevy Metro, with their multiple air bags and perimeter reinforcement cages would likely have no problem meeting modern safety regulations.

But let's consider the significance of that for a moment. You are claiming that you have driven your Yaris 104k miles. I've driven mine 50k miles in the last year. I've driven the Sprint 370k miles, as well. 50k of those in the last 12 months. And I'm just as alive and healthy as you are. What has that additional safety actually bought you? In comparison to my driving experiences... nothing. Less than nothing, actually, since I have had a few "Oh my God! I'm going to die!" moments in the Yaris. None in the Sprint, however. The Yaris is a death-trap in ice and snow compared to the Sprint.


OK. So you are pulling out all the stops to defend your Yaris. Hey Bro, chill out. I'm a Yaris owner too. And I would definitely recommend the Yaris to others, even though it is far from the safest car on the market.


Sure I can compare the mileage. My advice to you is not to drive your Yaris on the ice, and if you do, please take extra care. But if you do die on the ice, rest assured that I will try to consider that statistic in an objective manner.

The Yaris is, relatively speaking, a gas guzzler, compared to the Sprint Metro. That's on an objective scale.

On a subjective scale, I feel safer in the Sprint, although improved safety was a factor in my decision to purchase the Yaris. (I've been forced to admit that I was wrong on that count.)

-Steve

It's not about defending the Yaris. I'm just saying that it's apples and oranges comparing a 1988 economy car to a 2008 economy car.

Today's cars have put on a lot of weight over the ones from the '80's. Mainly do to tons of added safety features as well as convenience features that today's buyers demand to have. Not to mention the ever increasing sizes of the cars. Also, Americans tend to not want a car with less than about 100 HP. The Yaris's 106 HP is the lowest powered car outside of the Smart car and Mazda 2 (in the US). All of these things have led to a greater difficulty in obtaining the high efficiency as such cars as your Sprint.

Also another thing to keep in mind is the change in EPA ratings. You claim the Sprint was rated at 54/58. Impressive no doubt and I bet you can achieve such numbers. Before '08, the Yaris was rated 34/40 and then lowered to 29/35-36 with the new rating system. So the Sprint would have been the equivalent of about 49/54 or so today (about where a Prius sits).

[sbergman27]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

It's not about defending the Yaris. I'm just saying that it's apples and oranges comparing a 1988 economy car to a 2008 economy car.

It was you who shifted the conversation in this direction. My original post was more about people foolishly buying Ford F-150s and then whining about gas prices. Not about how everyone should buy a Sprint Metro. They couldn't do it, anyway. There are not enough to go around. (Prices on the used market have sky-rocketed again. At the moment, I suspect I could get thousands if I were interested in selling... which I'm not.)

Today's cars have put on a lot of weight over the ones from the '80's.

So have their drivers. In the US, at least.

Mainly due to tons of added safety features

You advertise that you have 104k on your Yaris. I've driven mine 50k. I've driven my Sprint 370k. Between us, we've driven over a half a million miles in the cars we're talking about. I've driven over 3.5x as much in the Sprint than you have in your Yaris. And I'm just as alive as you, despite several "Oh my god I'm going to die!" moments in the Yaris (but not the Sprint).

Do you test your air-bags weekly or something? How do you know they will even work when called upon? It has been demonstrated that people drive differently depending upon the perceived safety level of the car they are in. They are more reckless when in SUVs. They take more chances when wearing safety belts. Even more when wearing shoulder belts. Air-bags make the situation even worse.

I was listening to an "Are We Alone" radio program the other day in which a safety expert noted that mandating the mounting of a steel spike at the center of automobile steering wheels might cause an increase in driver deaths, but would likely do wonders for pedestrian fatalities.

When I bought the Yaris, my real reason was that I was itching for a new car. (For once in my life.) But my major rationalization was safety. Considering my current 70k/yr driving pattern, it was a convenient rationalization. But somewhat surprisingly, I honestly feel safer in the Sprint. It's simply better *not to be involved* in an accident than to have fancy schmancy safety systems that you have no guarantee will work at the moment they are needed.

The Sprint has kept me out of accidents for 370k miles. Has a shorter stopping distance than even the ABS equipped Yaris. Etc.

Also, Americans tend to not want a car with less than about 100 HP.

My fellow countrymen are a fat and stupid lot, who insist upon big engines, yes. Tell me something I don't know. My Yaris is over-powered, IMO.

Also another thing to keep in mind is the change in EPA ratings. You claim the Sprint was rated at 54/58. Impressive no doubt and I bet you can achieve such numbers.

I'm well aware of that change. As I do not do much city driving, I can't really fill you in on that. IIRC, back when I did, I was seeing something like 47 mpg. But don't quote me on it. That was a long time ago.

I can tell you quite a lot about current highway driving, however. At 70 mph, with no wind, I get about 54 mpg. At the 55 mph speed limit which was in effect in 1988, the Sprint does an actual 62 mpg.

Before '08, the Yaris was rated 34/40 and then lowered to 29/35-36 with the new rating system. So the Sprint would have been the equivalent of about 49/54 or so today (about where a Prius sits).

I take a particular interest in the Prius. Certainly, both the Prius and the Sprint blow the Yaris out of the water for fuel economy. The Sprint beats the current, 3rd generation, Prius by about 3 mpg for highway driving (which is the kind of driving I do) according to fueleconomy.gov. Comparing my actual results to the Prius' fueleconomy.gov numbers yields a 6 mpg difference in the Sprint's favor.

But for something *really* impressive, see the 2000-2006 Honda Insight. 61/70 mpg city/hwy. I don't own one. But I get the impression (from participating in forums, with my skeptic's hat on) that they really can manage that 70 mpg on the highway. The 1st generation Insight was an amazing car.

-Steve

[thebarber]

a guy i work with wants to trade in his 01 grand prix for something more fuel efficient (well, he's thinking about it)

i havent done the math quite yet, but he wants my advice...

[hyprmiler]

Originally Posted by nemelek

The cost of transportation is not cheap. Especially when buying and selling. The maintenance of an ageing vehicle vs "trouble free" miles of a new car also factor in. It's a lot better to respond than to react.

A new car will have lost 75% of its value after the first 5 years. Go certified used and let someone else take the hit in depreciation. Another thing to think about is that if gas goes up 1 buck a gallon (say 3.00 to 4.00) that's another 10 bucks to fill up your tank.

If you fill up twice a month that's another $240.00 in expenses. 240.00 is a lot cheaper than say a new car payment (assuming your current car is paid for)

[hyprmiler]

@thebarber have your friend look at this - http://www.daveramsey.com/article/da...ey_automobiles

I'm not against changing your car to get better MPG. What I AM against is trading a car in and going further in debt to get more MPG out of a vehicle .

[thebarber]

i asked my coworker to track his real-world mpg's for his grand prix (which is actually an 03)

he's looking at a yaris 5dr (availabe since 06 in canada) so i can tell him what his real-world mpgs for the yaris would be. he's commuting about 40km each way every day on the highway...so 350-400km a week driving

[Altitude]

When I decided to buy my Yaris - it was just as much about using less gas and oil as it was that it would be cheaper to fill up. I went from no car payment and 13mpg's to a car payment and 30+ mpg's.

So yeah, sometimes it's not just about saving money.

[nemelek]

Originally Posted by hyprmiler

A new car will have lost 75% of its value after the first 5 years. Go certified used and let someone else take the hit in depreciation. Another thing to think about is that if gas goes up 1 buck a gallon (say 3.00 to 4.00) that's another 10 bucks to fill up your tank.

If you fill up twice a month that's another $240.00 in expenses. 240.00 is a lot cheaper than say a new car payment (assuming your current car is paid for)

Not sure where the "75%" came from. But using that logic my 2008 Yaris that I paid $12,632 for will be worth only $3,158 in 2 years. With an estimated 60,000 miles on the car it would be a great buy for someone. "Go certified" means that you are buying a used car from a dealer which means that you are paying too much.

If you drive 12,000 miles/year in a 15 mpg SUV a $1 increase costs $800/year. At $4/gallon the SUV will spend $3,200 for a year. My Yaris driven the same amount of miles only costs $1,200. A savings of $2,000.

[sbergman27]

Originally Posted by Altitude

So yeah, sometimes it's not just about saving money.

There are things in this world more important than your current bank balance.

And I'm still having a ball in your wonderful and beautiful State of Colorado, BTW.

-Steve

[daf62757]

People need to use their car as a tool. If you simply drive to work by yourself, buying a big 4x4 pick up is not the right tool. If you work in construction and need the bed to haul your tools and equipment, then a pick up is the right tool.

I drive once a week to Chicago from Indy and marvel at the guys in these pick ups that burn past me in a huge pick up. You just know that they spend $100 every time the get near a gas pump.

I drive 75, and still get close to 40 MPG. I cry when I go to the gas pump....but at least I have the comfort of knowing I am not the biggest fool.

[Kal-El]

Originally Posted by daf62757

People need to use their car as a tool. If you simply drive to work by yourself, buying a big 4x4 pick up is not the right tool. If you work in construction and need the bed to haul your tools and equipment, then a pick up is the right tool.

Good point. I know a lot of people love their trucks, and that's fine, but the fact is that the majority of truck owners don't need to own a truck. Even if you need to haul a load 10 times a year (much more than the average person does), it would be cheaper to rent a truck each of those times while owning a sensible commuter. Think about it, how often do you actually see something in the back of a pickup? I would say maybe 2-5% of the time. the other 98% of the time, all these trucks crowding the streets are empty, with one person in it - getting 17 mpg.

[end user]

Originally Posted by stevenfrank38

There is a lot of consumer angst emanating from the unrest in the Mideast and disaster in Japan. And with that comes concern about rising fuel costs and a scramble for fuel-efficient vehicles. For those without a pressing need to replace their current vehicle, Kelley Blue Book – long known for its knowledge and analysis of the used car market – advises to hold onto what you currently drive. And that advice would be especially true if the vehicle you own and operate is a truck or SUV.

Before I got my Yaris my dd was a 88 Full Size Bronco with a 302 and a 6" lift with 35" tires. I didn't sell the truck because it already paid for and I wanted to keep it. Here why I decided to get the Yaris or any other econobox.

First since the truck is old and with the lift and heavy tires I have to change u-joint quite often and same with the ball joints. My last set of heady duty ball joints lasted me about out 16 months that's just for street driving. Also driving daily the Mud Terrain tires only last about 1.5 years at $1200 per set.

Bronco monthly cost break down.

Insurance: $125
Gas (just to and from work): Aprox $600 per month. I get about 380-400km per tank ($110 to fill up) I think I spend about $800 on gas per month on the Bronco.
Total: $775-975 per month to operate my bronco.

Yaris monthly cost break down.

Insurance $155 (inc. vehicle value replacement - Car written off I get what I paid for it)
Monthly Payments: $265
Gas: $160-180 per month to and from work.
Total: $600 per month.

Now with the Yaris if I drive my Bronco on the weekends/days off and my wife uses the Yaris in town instead of her F-150 we'll save about $300-400 per month in gas alone. This also doesn't include anything that has to be replaced on the Bronco or at least save on shop labour as I can do the repairs myself since I have a backup car.

There's more to trading in or buying a small car than just gas savings. In a multi driver house the saving can be substantial if the family shares the car for in town diving especially if no one owns a new vehicle.

Also should add that I do lot of pick-ups from wholesalers for my work (who are on my drive to work so no detours needed). Much better customer service when I can have something next day then having to wait for once a week delivery. I won't be able to do that with the Yaris as much but will just have to split it into smaller loads.