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Old 07-07-2018, 01:39 PM   #1
tmontague
 
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Need some help with future plans

This is a call out to those with experience either with a Yaris or something similar as a dedicated track car/turbo build

In the next 2 years I'll be moving to a larger house with a garage. This gives me the option to buy a cheap used Yaris to use as a daily. I am then left facing 2 options of which I keep going back and fourth on.

Option 1: Keep the Yaris as a rough DDer and eventually pass it along to my son if it lasts another 15 years (body in great shape). I say "rough" DDer because it is set up as a track car so it's not smooth and it goes through gas much quicker than a stock 1nz. Then use what money I have to buy a RWD dedicated track car (not street legal) such as a Miata - something with a ton of aftermarket options that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Lots of those online for sale but looking in the range of $13-19 grand CAD for a track build that is set up well. I'd rather buy someone elses project then start from scratch as it's cheaper.

Option 2: Buy a used cheap DDer Yaris that is good on gas, cheap to run and comfy. Oh and also an A/T so my wife can drive it if need be - this is a bonus as she currently cannot drive my car. I would then take my current 2zr swapped yaris and turn it into a track specific car that isn't street legal. I would be able to strip out a ton of weight and run a stand alone ecu to take advantage of either a potential turbo swap or a solid NA build with cams and lightweight crankshaft. Without the limitation of it being street legal and have to pass an e test there is a lot that could be done.

I have a decent amount of money in my Yaris as it sits and I really do like the car and how fast it can be. There just is a limited aftermarket and at the end of the day it likely won't be as fun as a rwd car with a ton of aftermarket potential. I'm just realizing that it would still likely cost more to buy and take over another persons track car then to just build up my Yaris. The major limit on it now is the power. I'd ideally like around 200whp to make it very competitive.

So my question is: How hard/complex is it to run a yaris on a standalone ecu (no e test limitations) so that it can be tuned properly. I know this pertains to a 2zr but it likely isn't much different than a 1nz in terms of difficulty. I've done car electrical before but nothing as in depth as wiring an ecu but I am fully open to trying it. Since I would have a dd I would be able tot ake my time and slowly chip away at it. I just don't want to go this route if it doesn't really work properly with Toyota engines.

I'm looking for insight from those that have been down this road, or something similar.
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Old 07-07-2018, 05:28 PM   #2
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None of those and buy my yaris. it still gets good gas milage but already has the cage so you can plug and play what parts you want for the track car, and then use the other for your son, only with better milage. :D

in all seriousness, when it comes time for the kid to get his own car that will be the time to decide what to get him (maybe the 14 yaris' will be that cheap)

so my vote is putting in option 2.

I 'drive' a 2006 saab as my 'daily' and the yaris is my track toy. i dedicated that car to being what it is (within rules) and if/when its time to move on the next car will be something similair in concept. a streetable track toy thats modded to rules.
if i was going unlimited.... id want to make more money hehee
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Old 07-08-2018, 10:54 AM   #3
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Good timing on this thread as I'm in a very similar boat - once the 4x4 trucks are sold and we get a few projects for the house complete, I'd like to get something small and sporty to wrench on.

Option 2 is fun because the Yaris is enjoyable (less a few swap frustrations figuring things out) to wrench on and as others on here have shown can make an enjoyable little track car. Depending on what you want to do for track events Option 1 makes more sense - it's where I'm sitting, excepting that I haven't commit my Yaris to any track setup at all, so it's still comfortable to daily; need the A/C refilled still, dear god that's a priority ... lol

Anyhow, just to throw some ideas out, I've been looking at MX-5 Miata, Nissan 350Z / Infiniti G35, BMW 3-series, Lexus IS300/250, pretty much anything you can get for < $5k, has a manual, and is RWD. There's a fairly substantial amount of choice out there, and occasionally you find ones that are setup with some aftermarket, and only the odd one I've come across with full track setup though, usually Miatas it seems.

Even browsing those, I still have a hankering to see what a 2ZR can be built to do though - really seems like it has untapped potential. A full standalone ECM would be the way to go performance wise. I don't imagine wiring and tuning the 2ZR would be any different than any other engine - pretty standard setup, other than managing the dual VVTi, which I from what I've read has become more common with currrent gen. ECMs. Curious to see what others who have run aftermarket ECMs - standalone or piggyback - have to say about wiring up the Yaris.

-- Adam
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Old 07-08-2018, 01:51 PM   #4
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I like option 2, I’ve shared with you how sad it is to go full race car and then you only get to drive it at races. I miss my car dammit!

Once Ime done with my gearbox, the next path will be to find the n/a limits of the 2zr
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Old 07-08-2018, 05:25 PM   #5
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hmm, I appreciate all of the input so far. I don't think the standalone and wiring will be much of an issue as AEM has an ecu (AEM EMS4) that is made just for 4 bangers which I think would mate well with the 2zr and its dual vvti.

I should mention that I'm not converned about bumping myself up into an unlimited class and losing races. I plan to "compete" in a grassroots seried next year called Ontario Time attack. They determine your class based on how many mods you have done to your car. At the end of the day I compete against myself so I'm not concerned about classes. I simply just want to get rid of the limitations I am currentlt under wirth it being my DDer.

I'm not interested in buying a <5k stock rwd car and having to put a ton of cash into it to make it track ready. If I chose option 1 it would be purchasing someone elses track toy and would cost between $13 and 20k based on current track cars for sale. I've read enough on grassroots motorsports forum and its much cheaper to buy someone elses track car.

The cheapest option would be to use my already existing semi built track car and just by a DD stock cheap Yaris. Hell, I know enough about them I could buy one that doesn't run for under a grand and just fix it to get it on the road.

There is a turbo kit (Corolla and Matrix) for just over 3 grand from MWR that had solid reviews onliune. I would be looking at 200whp as a happy medium between reliability and more speed. Thats is realistic w/ a standalone ecu on a very conservative tune and 91 octane pump gas. With that in the car I'd still save tons over buying a new track car from someone else. I could even build up a 2zr as a spare from the local wreckers with cams and other fun stuff from MWR. I know my car inside and out and whole suspension on the car is all virtually brand new so there are no unknowns.

So far option 2 is seeming to make the most sense. Down the road once my career is well underway and I grow out of the Yaris I can then build up a rwd car like the Miata of something similar.
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Old 07-08-2018, 06:49 PM   #6
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:D got my yaris.....


Id say honestly. I dont know if its been officially done, you can take your yaris and swap in a 2zz.. that'll net you near 200 whp with OEM reliability and will bolt into your stock transmission. if what I am thinking of works.

and yes Id go option 2. it makes the most pragmatic sense to me, and money wise, if you have a car you are willing to make grow, you dont need to dump 10k into it now..
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Old 07-08-2018, 10:00 PM   #7
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But that's 200 crank hp, not whp. The 2zr isn't too far off from that already and w/ a standalone on pumpgas it would be there NA.

The 2zr is a new engine with a solid platform so what ever I do will likely be on that engine. MWR makes cams, lightweight crankshafts, springs and titanium retainers so getting up to 8-9k rpm is doable w/ enough cash.

To build a solid NA set up or to go turbo on a conservative tune is the question...

I'm not sure how far Tom plans on going with this engine as an NA set up but I'm guessing he will be the first person to test those limits

Papadakis has a 1,000hp 2ar iirc and that block and head is virtually the same as a 2zr, he obviously has customs valves etc to put down that power thougg
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Old 07-08-2018, 10:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runethecursed View Post
if you have a car you are willing to make grow, you dont need to dump 10k into it now..
This is good advice
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:01 PM   #9
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1. Teach wife to drive stick
2. Find new DD thats still a manual so you dont want to kill yourself.
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Old 07-09-2018, 02:42 PM   #10
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Lol, my car is one of the worst car to learn stick on. Her mom who has driven stick her whole life has tried to drive it in the past and stalled it a bunch.

I've drive my sister in laws 07 LB which is an A/T and honestly it's fun and simple for zipping around town and easy in traffic. I will never let go of a manual trans but for a family dder it's more convenient w/ an auto
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Old 07-09-2018, 09:51 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmontague View Post
To build a solid NA set up or to go turbo on a conservative tune is the question...

I'm not sure how far Tom plans on going with this engine as an NA set up but I'm guessing he will be the first person to test those limits
I think about the turbo kit often, 220hp would be insane in my 1900lb car. BUT, like I’ve mentioned several times before...I haven’t found the 2zr’s limits yet. All I have is the RPM header and it put down nearly 20hp more than any other n/a 2zr.

The plan is to finish my Cusco/WPC C60, get the lightweight flywheel and crank pulley, get a good cold air intake....then go back to the dyno to see what full bolt-one gets you.
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Old 07-09-2018, 09:52 PM   #12
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True, problem is the rpm header is no longer made ...
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Old 07-10-2018, 12:18 AM   #13
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True, problem is the rpm header is no longer made ...
Well I can always pay someone to make a copy....just gotta get serious about it
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:38 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Lol, my car is one of the worst car to learn stick on. Her mom who has driven stick her whole life has tried to drive it in the past and stalled it a bunch.

I've drive my sister in laws 07 LB which is an A/T and honestly it's fun and simple for zipping around town and easy in traffic. I will never let go of a manual trans but for a family dder it's more convenient w/ an auto
i taught my wife how to drive manual on my 2004 xrs with a 7.5lb flywheel and a stage 2 clutch....it CAN be done.
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:46 PM   #15
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i taught my wife how to drive manual on my 2004 xrs with a 7.5lb flywheel and a stage 2 clutch....it CAN be done.
yes it can but my short throw shifters in and out of cabin make it a bit more challenging. End of the day she doesn't have much interest in it and neither do I. My car is already more track specific to the point it is less enjoyable to drive around town. I still like it but it does wear on me
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Old 07-13-2018, 01:35 PM   #16
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My 2 cents on automatic, if a household is going multi vehicle, there should be an automatic in the stable. Take a fall in the winter, strain/sprain/break something in your shifting arm and your screwed for transportation with only a stick shift in the garage.

As someone who has owned an automatic equipped Yaris for 12 years, I can say it does not suck. I love having a stick as a secondary car, but would never give up automatic for DD.

Also, due to my own personal experiences and those of others around me over the past 3 years, I am now firmly of the belief a modern A/T requires far less maintenance $$.

That said, your wife should at least learn to handle a stick, but not be forced to live with it.

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Old 07-13-2018, 02:37 PM   #17
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Using the yaris as an example of a "modern" auto is funny

But youre not wrong on the low maintenance front.
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:52 PM   #18
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'Modern' relative to the '80s. In those days, I would take a stick over auto without question in terms of reliability and maintenance costs.

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