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Old 07-27-2011, 06:20 AM   #1
bronsin
 
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The Weather is HOT and the MPGs are UP!

Its been nearly or over 100 degrees the past few weeks here. At night its not getting much below 80. My cool engine lights is going out after driving two blocks in the morning on the way to work. In winter it takes a mile or more to go out. Im getting 70-75 miles before the first gas tank segment goes out. In cooler weather it might only be 60-65 miles.

I bought a block heater and plan to use it this winter in an attempt to improve mileage. I imagine others have tried this and I wonder what results you got? How long do you tuen it on for? There must be a point at which the engine doesnt get any warmer so leaving it on all night would waste $. Last winter my mileage was down to 28 at times.
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Old 07-27-2011, 09:24 AM   #2
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I doubt the cost of the block heater will justify itself compared to a slight drop in MPG...

Buy a bicycle for better MPG! If I include the miles I've cycled, I've gotten 346MPG in the past two months!
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Old 07-27-2011, 11:52 AM   #3
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You could put it on a timmer set for 2 hours before you're ready to leave? It's not like you're in freezing cold temperatures so all you need is for it to get from ambient to whatever the heater is supposed to take the block to.

Cross reference the user Bailout and engine block heater, I remember him talking about it a while back.
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Old 07-27-2011, 12:51 PM   #4
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Since I have almost no city driving and a 1hr plus commute, rather than a block heater, I have been using a grille block similar to Bailout.
I did the upper grille rather than the lower, and I monitor coolant temp with a ScanGuage II.
The first winter I just used some old magnetic car door signs turned black side out and trimmed to fit the grille opening. (leaving about 15% open) Now I have an aftermarket grille insert (in sort of a billet style) with some black tyvek type material sandwiched between.
This works in NH with no city driving and a ScanGuage, not sure if it would fit for your drive.
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Old 07-27-2011, 09:49 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bronsin View Post
Its been nearly or over 100 degrees the past few weeks here. At night its not getting much below 80. My cool engine lights is going out after driving two blocks in the morning on the way to work. In winter it takes a mile or more to go out. Im getting 70-75 miles before the first gas tank segment goes out. In cooler weather it might only be 60-65 miles.

I bought a block heater and plan to use it this winter in an attempt to improve mileage. I imagine others have tried this and I wonder what results you got? How long do you tuen it on for? There must be a point at which the engine doesnt get any warmer so leaving it on all night would waste $. Last winter my mileage was down to 28 at times.
My first bar disappears after around 110 miles...

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Old 07-27-2011, 09:59 PM   #6
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block heater doesnt do anything for mileage, really. you plug it in before you go to bed and leave it on overnight. it keeps the block warm so the engine takes a bit less time to heat up.

honestly, since moving back to southern ontario i havent plugged in the car as it only gets down to like -15c or so. when i lived in new brunswick (north east of maine, for the americans) it would be -30 or -35c in the winter on occasion.....THAT warranted the block heater...
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:25 AM   #7
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block heater doesnt do anything for mileage, really. you plug it in before you go to bed and leave it on overnight. it keeps the block warm so the engine takes a bit less time to heat up.

honestly, since moving back to southern ontario i havent plugged in the car as it only gets down to like -15c or so. when i lived in new brunswick (north east of maine, for the americans) it would be -30 or -35c in the winter on occasion.....THAT warranted the block heater...
My communte to work (about the only thing I use the car for) is about six miles. In winter its a mile or more until the cool engine light goes out. The car will not shift into high until it does. (with a manual you can get into fifth 30 seconds after starting) And of course the engine is NOT totally warmed up when that light goes out. The heater doesnt fully put out until 2 or 3 miles. So about 50% of the total miles the car puts on is with a not fully warmed up engine.

With the block heater the engine will be not as cold as without one first thing in the morning.

It will make a difference. How much difference I dont know.
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:28 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Pacquiao View Post
My first bar disappears after around 110 miles...

If the first segment goes at 75 miles Im getting 40 mpg or thereabouts.

Anything like 60 miles and its probably around 30-32.

I know its not linear but thats how it is in my car.
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:38 AM   #9
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Using electricity (block heater) all night to save pennies on gas the next morning probably isn't a sound investment. Never mind the cost of the block heater itself. It's just money lost.

Like driving 5 miles to a gas station that is .03 cents cheaper per gallon than the one close by.
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Old 07-28-2011, 11:47 AM   #10
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Heres my figgers:

If the mileage goes from 28 to 34 with the heater thats a savings of $2 (half gallon) per 100 miles. So in 5000 miles thats a $1000 savings.

Block heater is $80.

Is that right?

No its 50 x $2 which is $100.

Pays for itself in a year.

Electricty is 12 cents kwhr x 1 = 12 cents per day to heat. .12 x 180 days = ~$20? per year for electric.
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Old 07-28-2011, 11:57 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by bronsin View Post
Heres my figgers:

If the mileage goes from 28 to 34 with the heater thats a savings of $2 (half gallon) per 100 miles. So in 5000 miles thats a $1000 savings.

Block heater is $80.

Is that right?
You're missing the cost of electricity. So you save $2 per 9 days or $0.22 per day. Block heater is probably 1,000watts (1kWh) so if you leave it on all night for 6 hours that is 6kWh. Around here, electricity is about $0.13/kWh so it will cost you $0.78 per day. Even if you have Time-of-Use rates (cheaper at night) that will probably be $0.06/kWH or $0.36 per day. So, as others have said, you won't save any money really...
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:12 PM   #12
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youll save 6mpg?
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:37 PM   #13
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Yeah, there's no way you'd gain 6 mpg just from pre- heating your engine block.

Maybe in the first 2 minutes of driving, but then after that the temp is the same whether you pre- heated or not, thus not effecting MPG beyond a couple of minutes.
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:38 PM   #14
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youll save 6mpg?
IF it saves 6 mpg.

The heater is 400 watts so 2 1/2 hours of electric is (in my area) 12 cents.

So you're looking at a savings of ~$700-800 over ten years total.

Thats at $4 per gallon and a 6 mpg improvement.

Easily worth it at those figures.
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Old 07-28-2011, 01:52 PM   #15
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The winter gas/summer gas power difference must also be put into the equation.
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Old 07-28-2011, 02:20 PM   #16
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And of course its just possible a hot to go engine will increase mileage in summer enough to matter.

As I understand it the Prius uses a vacuum flask to keep its coolant hot. Which does the same thing as a heater would.

Dont know if that works or not as many features on the Prius to increase mileage are somewhat nebulous.

Last edited by bronsin; 07-28-2011 at 08:25 PM.
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:56 PM   #17
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its not like a block heater lets your car fire up instantly hot...
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:24 PM   #18
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Right. How hot will a 400 watt element located in the cylinder head (where it cant heat the coolant or the oil which could thus spread heat to all parts of the engine) make the engine?

Ideally you would like the engine to be at operating temperature just before starting it.

Is there a way of doing that?

Here are the features of the Prius:

More efficient use of the internal combustion engine (ICE), reducing gasoline consumption. The Toyota 1NZ-FXE engine uses the more efficient Atkinson cycle instead of the more common Otto cycle;
Two electric motor/generators, providing 50 kW (67 hp) @ 1,200 to 1,540 rpm and 400 N·m (295 ft·lbf) torque from 0 to 1,200 rpm, which significantly contribute to performance & economy;
50 kW IGBT inverter controlled by a 32 bit microprocessor, which efficiently converts power between the batteries and the motor/generators.
Lower Drag coefficient of drag at 0.26 (0.29 for 2000 model), reducing air resistance especially at higher speeds;
Lower rolling-resistance tires on the 2000 model, reducing road friction;
Regenerative braking, a process for recovering kinetic energy when braking or traveling down a slope and storing it as electrical energy in the traction battery for later use while reducing wear and tear on the brake pads;
Sealed 168 cell nickel metal hydride (NiMH) rechargeable battery providing 201.6 volts;
Continuously variable transmission — the Prius does not use a typical CVT; Toyota calls it the Power Split Device. The electric motors and gas engine are connected to a planetary gear set which is always engaged, and there is no shifting.
Flexible resin gas tank, reducing the amount of hydrocarbon emissions in the form of escaped gasoline vapor;


Vacuum flask coolant storage system that stores hot engine coolant, then reuses it to reduce warm-up time.


Weight reduction — for example the hatch and hood are made of aluminium instead of steel.


Perhaps we can find a way to use this feature for our Yaris is.
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