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Old 05-01-2015, 05:10 PM   #1
tmontague
 
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Timing check: Quick response needed!

I just finished replacing the head gasket on my '02 Echo and will be firing it back up tomorrow. I followed the repair manual to set the timing but before I fire it up I want to make sure that it is perfect so that nothing is damaged. I hand cranked it and it turns fine with the typical resistance at certain parts of the crank turn.

Is there any way to check that I set the timing right in relation to the camshaft and crankshaft. Since it's a 2:1 ratio I want to make sure they are set together. Can this be done by turning the crank to TDC and putting something in cylinder one (the very left one in front of the passenger) and making sure that it is at the top?

thanks for the help
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Old 05-01-2015, 05:58 PM   #2
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just pulled the valve cover and checked that the valves (exhaust and intake) for the 1st cylinder were facing up. Cylinder 1 was also at the top of the stroke so the timing is good. My new problem is this:

when the camshaft markings are at the 12:00 position the driveshaft pulley timing mark is at the `10`instead of the `0` . I know that this won`t cause any interference damage but what I`m wondering is will the ECU fix this slightly forward timing or what effects will this potentially cause. I am not about to pull the timing cover again and re set the timing chain.
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Old 05-02-2015, 08:06 AM   #3
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Unfortunately I don't know but "well done" putting on the head gasket!

Im too old to do stuff like this anymore.

Wait...I have a guess! Could it be slack in the (worn timing chain)?
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Old 05-02-2015, 10:12 AM   #4
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Thanks, I originally planned on replacing the valve seals and exhaust manifold gasket hence the new head gasket (the original was fine) but I ended up only doing the head gasket. For 350,000km it only loses a quart or oil every 4-5k km which isn't bad at all. The exhaust bolts were so rusted I didn't even want to try those for fear of them just snapping as that's exactly what happened to the manifold heat shield. When a car is this old and parts are this rusted it's best to just leave them unless necessary.

Your guess may be right as the timing was set up perfectly before I re tensioned the tensioner and then put the timing cover back on. I'll fire it up in 20 mins once I instal the new fuel injector rings. Just picked them up from the border for about $9, dealer wanted $79...
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Old 05-02-2015, 01:05 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmontague View Post
I'll fire it up in 20 mins once I instal the new fuel injector rings. Just picked them up from the border for about $9, dealer wanted $79...
You talking O-rings? $79 for O-rings! Sweet Jesus that's truly robbery. Then again, $20ish to get to border and back, plus time. If you value your time then $79 I suppose isn't bad.
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Old 05-02-2015, 04:31 PM   #6
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Yup $79 for 8 littler rubber o-rings, ridiculous. I. Had to pick up other stuff anyways at the border, and if I drive 130km/h it's an hour door to door so can't complain.

I tried to start the car barely started and ran way off. I'm re installing the timing chain as I obviously messed the timing up. I am keeping my fingers crossed that I didn't bend the valves. It didn't sound like any damage was happening but it definitely wasn't running properly.

I'll post back if I can get it to fire up again
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Old 05-02-2015, 07:54 PM   #7
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just re installed the chain and re set the timing so that it matched up perfectly. Now the car won`t start or run terrible for 5 seconds, shakes and smokes. When the ignition is in the run position a ticking pump sort of noise is heard.

Does anyone know if the coil packs are specific to each cylinder or are they interchangeable I got them mixed up by accident and this is the only thing I can think of causing a misfire like this. If I can`t fix this then the car is scrap so any help is greatly appreciated!
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Old 05-02-2015, 08:13 PM   #8
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I'm pretty sure coils are not cylinder specific. I've diagnosed misfires before by swapping coil packs to see if a misfire code follows the coil to the new cylinder.
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Old 05-02-2015, 10:10 PM   #9
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hmm, that`s what i was thinking. I've narrowed the issue down to electrical as the timing was matched up perfectly with the orange links on the chain and the timing marks.

When the car cranks it sounds normal but it won`t catch unless you give it gas. That is where is sort of catches but runs terrible and will die if you stop giving it gas. It seems like the cylinders aren't firing properly. Reminds me of when I had a bad coil pack a few years ago, except that was just one cylinder and this seems like all 4 of them. There is also a white light smoke coming from the exhaust when you give it gas which I think is un burnt fuel.

Let me know any suggestions if you guys have any
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Old 05-03-2015, 08:20 AM   #10
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I can take a picture for you when I get home tonight of the timing marks when I get back home tonight.

The blue mark on the crank trigger wheel should line up with the oil squirter. Then the chain shoul have a coloured make on it and line up to to a corisponding mark on the right side of the crank. Then there are two yellow marks on the chain for the cams and their marks.
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Old 05-03-2015, 09:03 AM   #11
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thanks blue, that would be appreciated. Like I said I'm sure the timing is perfect, but I'd like to double check with where your marks are just to be sure.

I have the cams set up with the marks aligned with the orange link for each cam shaft. The 3rd orange link is then lined up perfectly with the driveshaft sprocket which puts it at about the 4:00 position. The links are spot on they are not off even half a link and the chain was then tensioned and re checked.

When I instaled the new fuel injector o-rings one of the injectors was having an issue seating into the rail and it show fuel out when I tried starting it. When I fixed the issue a lot of fuel when into the injector hole in the engine. Is it possible that the fuel fouled the plugs and that could cause the mis fire issue? I may try new plugs next and see if that helps.

I'm heading out of town so I won't be able to work on it until next weekend, I'm going to give myself 1 day to fix the problem and if I can't then it looks like I'll have to get a new one which I really don't want to have to do.

Things I'll be checking are: all sensors connected, clean and re connect most of them. Change plugs. That's all I can think of for now.
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Old 05-03-2015, 02:16 PM   #12
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I don't know if that helps
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Old 05-03-2015, 04:03 PM   #13
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Thanks for posting that. I have exactly 8 links between both lines. I matched the orange link to those marks and it matches the drive shaft mark with the 3rd orange link. I have no doubt that the timing is good. I'm just trying to figure out what would cause multiple misfires
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Old 05-04-2015, 09:52 AM   #14
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If you value your time then $79 I suppose isn't bad.
People say this to me all the time (I like to do a lot of 'silly' things to save money, DIY spirit!!!)

The answer is your time only worth what someone will pay for it. For a single 3 random hours unannounced on a weekend, you'd be lucky to make minimum wage (if you aren't on call, otherwise it's not really random in your favour).
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Old 05-04-2015, 10:34 AM   #15
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$79 is an insane price for injector seals when the entire engine gasket/seal kit is $130.
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Old 05-04-2015, 11:34 AM   #16
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yup, they are rubber circles, it's blatant gouging and is the reaosn why I never spend money at a Toyota dealership.

I am going to try and swap the plugs from the Yaris to the Echo and see if that has any effect on the car mis firing. If that doesn't work then I'll do the coil packs. It's frustrating as the car turn over fine and I knw I did everything properly including the timing. If I knew what the problem was I wouldn't have an issue having to buy a new car. I don't want to have to do this seeing as it seems like a simple electrical problem
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Old 05-04-2015, 11:53 AM   #17
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Check engine grounds.
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Old 05-04-2015, 12:23 PM   #18
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Am I reading your posts correctly? You are saying at this point scrapping the car is a possibility? What drove you to undertake this project? I cannot find anything posted by you indicating any real issues with the Echo in the first place.
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