So Close!!!!

[aclark246]

I just filled up my tank and my automatic Yaris sedan and I pulled off a new personal best!

464.5 miles on 9.442 gallons of gas for 49.19 MPG!

My previous best was 47.76 MPG and that was the last tank, with 47.37 the two tanks ago. It was on my normal commute, which I am lucky enough to have mostly highway. I do the usual driving under 55 mph and staying close to 50 mph with no A/C and slow acceleration. The one major change I made this tank however was a new technique (new for me.) Neutral coasting was brought in this tank, and it clearly helped, (thanks Voodoo22 for being the automatic transmission trailblazer!) The last 3 tanks have all been the same commute with roughly similar temperatures filled up at the same gas pump. The only difference was neutral coasting really, (although I did run into some intense traffic during this tank...)

Just felt like sharing because I am extremely excited! I think with a more perfected neutral coasting technique on this next tank and hopefully less traffic I will be able to break 50 mpg! Who says automatic transmissions can't play the FE Game?!?!

[auxmike]

I have the auto too. I've capped out at about 32MPGS.
I do 40 miles round trip to/from work. Mostly stop and go.
I AM within the EPA averge for this car. Why does'nt my car do any better???
Also, isn't it REAL bad to throw an auto into neutral while rolling?

[Altitude]

Originally Posted by auxmike

Also, isn't it REAL bad to throw an auto into neutral while rolling?

That's one of those things I've always heard too, but never heard the why of it. Anyone here know?

[auxmike]

Even the owners book tells you to raise the front wheels when pulling an auto behind a motorhome.

[BailOut]

Well done, aclark246! You'll hit 50 MPG very soon - I'm sure of it.

auxmike, how you drive has a tremendous impact on fuel economy, much more than your driving conditions do. Please read through the stickies here in the FE forum for tons of information on how to drive more efficiently. It's a fun thing to do and every tank becomes a personal competition.

[twowheels]

Originally Posted by Altitude

That's one of those things I've always heard too, but never heard the why of it. Anyone here know?

My understanding is that the transmission fluid pump is driving by the input shaft from the torque converter. If the engine isn't turning the torque converter then the pump isn't moving fluid around the transmission, but everything's still spinning at high speed. This may not be true of the Yaris as it doesn't DFCO, but I really don't know.

Manuals, on the other hand, work as an oil bath IIRC... the bottom of the spinning gears are always in the gear oil picking some up and moving it around the transmission.

[Yaris Hilton]

Originally Posted by twowheels

This may not be true of the Yaris as it doesn't DFCO, but I really don't know.

Yaris automatics from something like January 2007 build dates (I think) do have DFCO in Drive. Earlier ones did only in lower gears; why they set them up that way I can't imagine. I don't do neutral coasting, but if the engine's still running it can't hurt anything.

[aclark246]

Believe me, I NEVER thought I would do neutral coasting. It was always one of those techniques I had reserved for manual transmissions. I just did a heck of a lot of research before I tried it for the first time. (There was no way I was going to jeopardize my car or transmission for a few extra dollars at the pump, and definitely not my safety.) The safety issue for me was easy: if manuals can pull it off with out endangering the driver, so can automatics. Just like any other technique, it has to work with your commute and with the particular driving/traffic conditions. For instance, in heavy traffic where it would not be safe (too fast,) I DO NOT neutral coast. In that aspect it is just like being a responsible driver, knowing your car and the road conditions. You have to be responsible, observant, and respectful.

The safety/longevity of my transmission and other car parts on the other hand was hard to get over. From what I have read and discovered, (mostly online at gassavers.org and cleanmpg.com,) MOST automatic transmissions can neutral coast safely, including ours. (One exception I found was, and I think Bailout actually discovered it, Chevy Aveo's cannot neutral coast with the engine on.) Yes, our cars cannot be dingy towed, meaning we CANNOT neutral coast with the engine OFF. From what I understand, being in neutral with the engine ON is still perfectly fine, and there is minimal wear on the transmission when shifting back and forth. (I personally don't shift unless it will be at least a 0.5 mile coast.)



My word is nowhere near fact! Neither are the words of the folks on gassavers or cleanmpg! I just did as much research as a could, (member Voodoo22 was a big help,) and made my best judgement. It is the same as any technique, it has to be right for you and you have to be ok with it. But, from what I have as experiential evidence, (unfortunately not enough scientific evidence, which is why I'm not going to tell anyone to do it on my word alone,) neutral coasting with the engine on at speeds under 60 mph is not only safe, but it is a good alternative to DFCO on those occasions where DFCO would slow you down too much.

I still use DFCO because nothing beats FREE miles, but at segments of my commute I can get 1-2 miles in neutral for the price of idling the engine where DFCO would have given me maybe 0.5 miles and the rest using gas in Drive. I estimate, I added at least 15 miles on to my tank of gas by neutral coasting. And I think I can add more next time!

I understand many of your reservations to the technique, and I don't want to push you to do any of it. (I have taken the responsibility of my own car and transmission, and if what I do messes it up I am the only one to blame. I don't plan on it, but I am taking the responsibility for it. I don't want to be responsible for anyone else's cars though, ha ha.) So yeah, as a disclaimer, don't do anything just because you see it on a forum, but from what I discovered, (and it is adequate enough for ME,) neutral coasting with the engine on in an automatic yaris sedan is great.


EDIT: On a side note, I DO have a very basic and sort of controlled ongoing experiment. My girlfriend has a 2007 yaris as well, manufactured two months before mine with the same packages and same transmission. We do all of our maintenance around the same time, (although she has about 10k more miles than I do.) Essentially, my car is the hypermiling as a sport car, and hers is the just drive responsibly car. She got about 40 mpg on her last tank, (also a lot of highway,) but gets between 32-42 the rest of the year which we can't complain about. I do not neutral coast, and neither does she in her car. The only things she does is stay below 65 as much as possible and accelerate smoothly, (driving responsibly.) We do use A/C in her car freely however since it isn't as much of a sport to her as it is to me. So seeing as we both plan on keeping the cars for as long as possible, I will be able to provide experiential updates if I need any special services before she does, or vice versa. We can then see if they connect to driving habits or conditions, or if they are unrelated to hypermiling. So in 10 years I'll be sure to post my results if I kill my transmission significantly sooner than she does, or if anything else goes wrong out of the expected realm.

[voodoo22]

Way to go Aclark. Even if you can't improve your technique anymore you're sure to break 50 when the weather is warmer.

Originally Posted by auxmike

Also, isn't it REAL bad to throw an auto into neutral while rolling?

It's only bad in our cars (and most newish cars) if you turn the engine off while coasting at highway speeds. If your AT is flat towable you can also turn the engine off while coasting in neutral without causing damage. Using this technique with a MT or flat towable AT is how hypermilers get those truly amazing numbers with their traditional ICE vehicles.

[supmet]

Using neutral while moving isn't bad for the engine or transmission, just illegal in most states.

[MPC Motorsports]

Originally Posted by auxmike

I have the auto too. I've capped out at about 32MPGS.
I do 40 miles round trip to/from work. Mostly stop and go.
I AM within the EPA averge for this car. Why does'nt my car do any better???
Also, isn't it REAL bad to throw an auto into neutral while rolling?

auxmike, I average 32-33mpg with my auto sedan. I drive fairly aggressive with a 25 mile round trip daily to work. One day per week is 100 mile round trip to my employer's factory, so my average mileage per week is about 330. Highway driving is max 5 mph over speed limit with cruise control. No hypermiling here. My best MPG last year was 39 mpg at 65 mph to the factory and back.

In March of this year, I took a trip from Tulsa OK to Dallas TX. Drove speed limit all the way on highways with some stop and go driving intermixed. Got 36 mpg. While it is fun to hypermile and try to get 40-50+ mpg, I totally enjoy wringing all the performance and handling out of my Yaris while getting in excess of 30 mpg. Yaris FTW!!!

[auxmike]

Originally Posted by MPC Motorsports

auxmike, I average 32-33mpg with my auto sedan. I drive fairly aggressive with a 25 mile round trip daily to work. One day per week is 100 mile round trip to my employer's factory, so my average mileage per week is about 330. Highway driving is max 5 mph over speed limit with cruise control. No hypermiling here. My best MPG last year was 39 mpg at 65 mph to the factory and back.

In March of this year, I took a trip from Tulsa OK to Dallas TX. Drove speed limit all the way on highways with some stop and go driving intermixed. Got 36 mpg. While it is fun to hypermile and try to get 40-50+ mpg, I totally enjoy wringing all the performance and handling out of my Yaris while getting in excess of 30 mpg. Yaris FTW!!!

Glad to see I'm not the only one who not a milage "hero" here, LOL!

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Congrats! I'm still trying to achieve 50mpg with my carpooling.

[aclark246]

Originally Posted by supmet

Using neutral while moving isn't bad for the engine or transmission, just illegal in most states.

I'm a rebel

Originally Posted by MPC Motorsports

I totally enjoy wringing all the performance and handling out of my Yaris while getting in excess of 30 mpg. Yaris FTW!!!

Even though I love hypermiling, what you do is exactly why I bought the car! I love the fact that if you want to have a different kind of fun, (I see hypermiling as fun too,) or if you are just late for whatever reason, you don't have to worry about getting bad fuel economy.

I know this will sound blasphemous to a lot of hypermilers, but once I break 50mpg I think I will take a one tank break and enjoy the other beautiful aspect of the Yaris that you pointed out. I think I deserve it after a year of greuling discipline, and I think my Yairs deserves to live up to both sides of her potential. I know people who drive their yaris at 80 mph regularly and pull off 38 mpg easily- who else can do that?! These cars are amazing for hypermiling performance fun and for traditional performance fun.

Originally Posted by Kaotic Lazagna

Congrats! I'm still trying to achieve 50mpg with my carpooling.

Thanks
You and all the other carpoolers are the ones who deserve the congratulations though. Not only are you taking cars off the road, effectively doubling, tripling, or possibly quadrupling your combined gas mileage, but you yourself are still pulling off amazing numbers with the added weight. I'd like to see the numbers you guys could pull off solo on my commute.