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Old 06-01-2007, 01:20 PM   #19
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Palsan.....Excellant observations and opinion, we do live in the real world and we should adjust our driving to our surroundings, not make the surroundings adjust to us.
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Old 06-01-2007, 05:23 PM   #20
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palsan, you bring up some interesting observations but you and I see the world through totally different views. Most of the negatives you brought up have to do with the current attitudes and behavior of drivers. That is specifically what I am trying and hoping to correct, one person at a time, through leading by example. People will never change if they don't see another way.

As for everything to do with FE mods, the only reason I included things like that (which I was chided for by some folks at CleanMPG) is because this is a community that is heavily into modding. As such I'd rather see solar chargers than Momo steering wheels, block heaters rather than CAIs, higher tire pressure instead of rims, etc.

The hypermiling techniques you think can only be used on a hybrid can actually be used on any vehicle, but it's especially accessible with the Yaris since the car handles a FAS almost as neatly as a hybrid does.

As I mentioned up front the beauty of FE is that you don't have to do anything you don't want to do. I certainly do not expect everyone to become a hypermiler but anyone can gain modest FE improvements with simple changes to their driving style. There were several of my bullets you didn't have anything against so I encourage you to focus on them in your own efforts to achieve higher FE.
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Old 06-01-2007, 09:14 PM   #21
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palsan, you bring up some interesting observations but you and I see the world through totally different views.

The hypermiling techniques you think can only be used on a hybrid can actually be used on any vehicle, but it's especially accessible with the Yaris since the car handles a FAS almost as neatly as a hybrid does.
Yes we have different views of the world, I'm a realist you are a dreamer - no offence intended. I'm just pointing out that even if you were able to change the behaviour of 10% of drivers, the aggressive tendencies in even a minority of the other 90% will negate any fuel savings achieved by the 10%. Nothing wrong with trying to educate. However, on this type of forum you are "preaching to the converted" - the average joe and jane on the road just wants to get to where they are going as quickly as possible - and that means pedal to the metal when the car ahead of them is more than 5 feet away, brakes when the gap <5 feet.

You mention that the yaris is capable of achieving the FAS technique. I don't understand how this is possible with an automatic tranny - please explain.
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Old 06-01-2007, 09:51 PM   #22
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"palsan, you bring up some interesting observations but you and I see the world through totally different views. Most of the negatives you brought up have to do with the current attitudes and behavior of drivers. That is specifically what I am trying and hoping to correct, one person at a time, through leading by example. People will never change if they don't see another way."
I am with BailOut on this posting..............it will take years..........but we need to change one person at a time. My 90 day average is 46.3 mpg, with about 3% highway driving.
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Old 06-01-2007, 09:55 PM   #23
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I am the realist and you are the dreamer, palsan. I am the one that knows that we Americans simply cannot go on consuming resources - including gasoline - like we have been for the last few decades. You dream that life will just keep going on as it is.

As for the aggressiveness, we efficient folks will still win. People that behave so poorly on the road are stressing themselves right into an early grave, which means they will use much less fuel over the course of their shorter lifetime.

Regarding FASing with an AT I have no experience with it, but if it will allow for an engine start when you're in Neutral (meaning it does not insist on being in Park to start) then it will be totally doable. You'll start by putting the transmission in Neutral, then turning the key to Ignition Off, counting to 3 and then turning the key back to Ignition II. You will be in a FAS at this point. When you're ready to move under power again simply start the engine back up and put the transmission in Drive. The pressure systems in the transmission will not allow it to go into a gear that is too low for your road speed and the ECU should handle RPM matching, so it should be a no-brain event.

Yes, this puts a bit of stress on the transmission, but so does acceleration.
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Old 06-01-2007, 10:07 PM   #24
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"I am the realist and you are the dreamer, palsan. I am the one that knows that we Americans simply cannot go on consuming resources - including gasoline - like we have been for the last few decades. You dream that life will just keep going on as it is.

As for the aggressiveness, we efficient folks will still win. People that behave so poorly on the road are stressing themselves right into an early grave, which means they will use much less fuel over the course of their shorter lifetime. "

Very well worded BailOut.........each year we consume more and more in the USA. It is depressing that most don't get it! We need to change, and use less, not more.
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Old 06-01-2007, 11:01 PM   #25
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[QUOTE=roadrunner;92764.......each year we consume more and more in the USA. It is depressing that most don't get it! We need to change, and use less, not more.[/QUOTE]

I agree with the above statement but hypers ( just like all extremes on the politcal left and right) need to use common sense.

In the process of achieving your goal, no matter how noble
1: if you break any laws---change the laws or don't do it.
2: if you cause others to negate your gains----you have lost site of your goal
3: if you could be considered responsible for harming persons or property---you should pay
4: be honest to yourselves and show some
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Old 06-02-2007, 07:54 AM   #26
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One other point on hypermiling:

"Hypermiler is a term coined by Wayne Gerdes to describe a driver who strives to exceed their vehicle's EPA fuel economy rating."

The EPA ratings - however flawed their methodology - are not achieved by: turning the engine off while the vehicle is moving, taking the jacks out of the trunk, coasting in neutral, drafting behind large trucks, etc.

Beating the EPA ratings - however noble - is not a fair game. Its like running a race where your opponent has to run 100m and you only run 80m, or playing a basketball game using an extra player and your opponent's basket being 20% bigger than yours.

The answer to the fuel "crisis" is NOT using vehicles in ways they were not designed to be used, making them potentially dangerous (hypermiling), BUT utilizing more efficient engines and USING THEM THE WAY THEY WERE DESIGNED TO BE USED.
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Old 06-02-2007, 11:39 AM   #27
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palsan,

You seem to be fixated on some aspects of hypermiling (which I included a disclaimer on) while this thread is about fuel efficiency as a whole, from A-Z and intended for everyone from the teenage adrenaline junkies to the little old ladies with blue hair.

I certainly appreciate that hypermiling isn't for everyone but I again iterate that no one has to do anything they don't want to do, and there are many other things much lower on the FE ladder that anyone can and should participate in.

As for efficient engines, if you find a cost-effective PHEV or EV that comes with a warranty and track record like Toyota's be sure to let me know. We'll talk about this again in 2009 when it might actually be a possibility.
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Old 06-13-2007, 04:30 PM   #28
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I'm a bit perplexed. I got right at 40 mpg one tank full. Then I changed my oil to Mobil 1 0W20 and cut my driving speed by 10 mph and got 42 mpg. I inflated my tires to 44 psi (max sidewall rating) and now I'm back to 40 mpg. Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to bitch about 40 mpg but I think I'm going to deflate my tires back to where they were and see what's what. I know it sounds silly to bitch about 2mpg when over the whole tank that's what?; $1.50 worth of gas? LOL!
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Old 06-13-2007, 06:17 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigal View Post
I'm a bit perplexed. I got right at 40 mpg one tank full. Then I changed my oil to Mobil 1 0W20 and cut my driving speed by 10 mph and got 42 mpg. I inflated my tires to 44 psi (max sidewall rating) and now I'm back to 40 mpg. Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to bitch about 40 mpg but I think I'm going to deflate my tires back to where they were and see what's what. I know it sounds silly to bitch about 2mpg when over the whole tank that's what?; $1.50 worth of gas? LOL!
I'd give it a few tanks then average....so many variables are out there---wind/temp/different routes/how the tank was filled. Mine varies from 40 to 42 even when I think all things are equal.
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Old 06-13-2007, 09:51 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigal View Post
I'm a bit perplexed. I got right at 40 mpg one tank full. Then I changed my oil to Mobil 1 0W20 and cut my driving speed by 10 mph and got 42 mpg. I inflated my tires to 44 psi (max sidewall rating) and now I'm back to 40 mpg. Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to bitch about 40 mpg but I think I'm going to deflate my tires back to where they were and see what's what. I know it sounds silly to bitch about 2mpg when over the whole tank that's what?; $1.50 worth of gas? LOL!
Actually, its counter-intuitive that a lower pressure will result in better gas mileage. I set mine to 32psi per spec and my mileage increased. It also rides better. Hope that helps. I am going to switch to full synthetic. I have always noticed an increase in my other car(s) when I did. I think I'm going to run Royal Purple given its outstanding sheer-reducing ability.
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Old 06-28-2007, 05:46 PM   #31
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I thought starting up your car takes more gas than it does to just sit there idling. Is that wrong?
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Old 06-28-2007, 09:28 PM   #32
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I thought starting up your car takes more gas than it does to just sit there idling. Is that wrong?
For most current I4 engines, 7 seconds of idling equates to not only the fuel used to restart, but also the wear and tear on the starter.
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Old 06-28-2007, 10:58 PM   #33
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Thanks for clearing that up for me :)
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Old 06-29-2007, 11:44 PM   #34
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[b]- Leave Jack at home. Replace your spare tire, jack, etc. with a patch kit and small, 12V air compressor, or even just a cell phone and road service membership..
around here, it is illegal to drive without a spare tire...
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Old 07-06-2007, 04:21 PM   #35
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Yes we have different views of the world, I'm a realist you are a dreamer - no offence intended. I'm just pointing out that even if you were able to change the behaviour of 10% of drivers, the aggressive tendencies in even a minority of the other 90% will negate any fuel savings achieved by the 10%. Nothing wrong with trying to educate. However, on this type of forum you are "preaching to the converted" - the average joe and jane on the road just wants to get to where they are going as quickly as possible - and that means pedal to the metal when the car ahead of them is more than 5 feet away, brakes when the gap <5 feet.

You mention that the yaris is capable of achieving the FAS technique. I don't understand how this is possible with an automatic tranny - please explain.
You are dead wrong! BailOut's tips do work and are not a dream, as you state. This is patently and blatently wrong of you to suggest it is just a "dream". Lets talk reality, and lets be results based. If you follow half of Brian's tips you will often see a 25% or more increase in MPG, and this is NOT a dream.

We all should Hypermile for many reasons, but if one wants to be selfish, then do it to save lots of money in gas, maintenence, and wear and tear on the car, so even if one does not care about the environment, or emissions, if one hypermiles for no other reason then to save money, that alone will pay off, and the pay off over time is no small amount of money.

Hypermiling does IN FACT work, and I am one of many that has proof of this.

Change your attituded, if for no other reason then for your own selfish gain of saving $$.

It's no dream, to be sure.

And you are wrong again....Brian is not "preaching to the converted"...the fact is, most Yaris owners do not drive to save gas, and in fact most of their driving styles make their Yaris into a gas guzzler in comparision to what they could get MPG wise if they hypermiled.....my daughter drives a 2007 Yaris too, but it may as well be a V6 for the way she drives....she gets just high 20's and I get mid to high '40's for the same drive.
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Old 07-06-2007, 10:34 PM   #36
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Just filled up for the first time.

617.4 kms @ 33.403 liters = 43.8ish mpgus.

Hypermiling does work, and there's the proof. My first tank on the car and I was only using the techniques part of the time.
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