Sedan Door Panel Deadening

[sqcomp]

Rattle is interesting...

I'm finding resonation on (of course) the "weakest" link in the doors. That would be the window and lock controls. I've got a solution that is partially implemented however, I don't want to go all out on the panel itself until I get the 8"s in the doors. Some Ensolite around the flanges where the control panel meets the door is working well. I just have to get it on all the surfaces. I've done the front "triangle" and the middle but as with water, the vibration simply moves to the place of least resistance.

Still, the doors overall are spectacular. One of the shop owners mentioned, and he wasn't kidding, that the Yaris doors are "more dead than a Mercedes E class by a long shot". I asked him if he was messing around and he said not at all...He rapped his knuckles on the body side of the trunk, it had the thin sheet metal sound, he went forward to the rear passenger's door, it had the thin sheet metal sound, and then he hit the front passenger's door...it went from that hollow sheet metal sound to a dull, diffused, thud. The neat thing about the sound was that the attack of the sound was very slow, almost muddy and the decay in the sound was quick to die out.

With both front doors done, even with the stock speakers, I'm picking up more subtle details in the music that I'm listening to. From a percussion beat that I haven't heard before to the overall crispness, the notable and most definite bass response increase from the stock speakers. Are they better than an aftermarket set...not any of them I'd choose no. But the thing is, this deadening project is the base for a sweet system over this next six to eight months.

Having seen and consulted with the top SQ guys in the country, I know what I'm doing is correct. The one thing I would suggest for ANYONE who is looking at a sound project. If you have questions, search locally, befriend a good installer. The owners of the shop I frequent (I won't say work at because they don't pay me and I DO NOT want to be put into the IASCA Expert class), I have known since 2000. I know their families and what is going on with their lives. Knowing people like this will give you guys a little edge, both in the way of insider knowledge (ask me about Morel USA and Exile Audio). Possible pricing breaks on equipment are also a reality, I may be referring to simply a friends discount or free interconnects and fuses that were purchased by the shop for pennies on the dollar, or even dealer accommodation prices from the manufacturer (with the latter here you really have to know the shop owners).

There are so many benefits that outweigh the immediate satisfaction of seeing a "low price" on the internet. I know in my case, no matter what happens with my system, that I will have absolute backing from both owners of the shop, the reps (no I'm not buying anything from the DUII rep-even though it's good stuff-), and the manufacturers. In my case, I have been talking/consulting with the owner of Hybrid Audio and the owners/engineers of Exile Audio. The Hybrid Audio owner is flying out to meet with the shop owners...obviously pushing his product, but also giving the consulting and support needed to make his product successful in our market.

...wait, am I writing about sound deadening or drilling industry points? Sorry guys! I get distracted sometimes...

[WolfWings]

Hell, I'm amazed how many people just worry about 'perfectly covering' a car when they install sound deadening.

Not everywhere needs as much, and some areas need extra! Looking at my install in my doors, it looks ugly as sin to most people because I patchworked in dozens (literally, about three dozen) pieces. Two or three at a time. Go outside, slam the door... listen... slam it again... rapraprap all over, agree with someone sitting inside the car what spot was worst... three more hunks of material... lather, rinse, repeat.

I can say for a fact, on a 3-door at least, the inside faces of the rear wheel wells are prime places to put a LITTLE material, to make a huge difference. Took one trip with a friend riding in bare sheetmetal, two times rolling it up and down the gravel driveway nearby, and one trip after we were all done to find final spots that were noisy, same idea. It's AMAZING what a difference it makes, having a properly padded, foamed, and sealed interior. Next up: The roof!~!

[talnlnky]

ok... so the wire grate... where'd you buy it? I was at a Jerry's (like Home depot) last weekend and say some gutter grate stuff that would work unless the holes were wider than 6 or so inches. Also it was curved/warped so it'd resist being in the flat mounted position.

I haven't looked around too hard yet, but someplace has to sell the stuff on a roll somewhere.

Also, are you going to mat/foam the dash.... I know there's a TSB about dash rattle... and my car started to have that issue... pisses me off... I have rattle on my dash! WTF to the millionth power. Will have to argue with the dealership about getting some worked done i guess. I don't want to rip apart my dash.. .and I know they prolly won't want to either. AND I REALLY don't want to have to pay for it.

Oh yeah... Remember those 4.5's I showed you.. the XBl^2 fullranges... I found them when I went home 2 weekends ago... Just need to remove the bucking magnet. Got everything I need minus the time & tools to mount the 8's in my doors and glass the 4's in the kicks. Even found some decent tweets in case I decide to add a tweet to the setup and make it a 3way.

[sqcomp]

Oooh! Pics on the 4 1/2"s are in order. If we get them up to the shop, I'm sure we can get the magnets off...

I will probably separate the dash and put some ensolite on the edges. I'll be working with a dash mat after a little while. I'll probably mod that mat as well. The final deadening will happen when the components arrive.

I think that if you get the three way in, we need to take a trip up to Vancouver BC next year to enter some of the IASCA comps. What is happening with the crossover with the three way idea?

Oh, the grating? It's a perforated plastic matting that bars use to put the glasses on after coming out of the washer. I'll find the receipt to give you the part number. It's SUPER cheap, something like $1.30 per foot. I got 5 feet. It is probably more than I need. If I don't use it all, I'll give what I have left to you.

Let me know.

[WolfWings]

Originally Posted by talnlnky

ok... so the wire grate... where'd you buy it?

Easier solution that works just as well: Get two of the wal-mart 'House For Sale' signs in thick 20-mil plastic for $2 each, a caulking gun for another $2, and a tube of black paintable silicon caulk for $2-$5 more.

Lay up the plastic sheets, cut to the profile of the holes in your door, lay a line of caulk around the edge of the sign and stick it on the holes. Let sit for ten minutes, put a layer of sound dampener mat over top to hold everything tightly in place, done.

Has the advantage that removing the panels doesn't involve peeling sound-mat AND unscrewing gummed-up screws, just cut down to the panel, pry it off, another bead of silicon and you can stick it back in place.

[talnlnky]

Originally Posted by sqcomp

Oooh! Pics on the 4 1/2"s are in order. If we get them up to the shop, I'm sure we can get the magnets off...

I will probably separate the dash and put some ensolite on the edges. I'll be working with a dash mat after a little while. I'll probably mod that mat as well. The final deadening will happen when the components arrive.

I think that if you get the three way in, we need to take a trip up to Vancouver BC next year to enter some of the IASCA comps. What is happening with the crossover with the three way idea?

Oh, the grating? It's a perforated plastic matting that bars use to put the glasses on after coming out of the washer. I'll find the receipt to give you the part number. It's SUPER cheap, something like $1.30 per foot. I got 5 feet. It is probably more than I need. If I don't use it all, I'll give what I have left to you.

Let me know.

Yeah... i'll try to get some pics of the 4's up, tho keep in mind they were in a car door for like 1-1.5 years... and sitting in a box for another 2 or so years
I'll also try to get you some pics of the sub box... its all bondo'd (rage gold actually) but just need to sand and paint it. Will prolly do the sanding tonight.

X-over...
Active for the lowpass on the 8 (AC 2xs, got chips from like 150-300hz in about 40hz increments)
High pass on the 4 is the same as the 8lowpass via the AC 2xs
No lowpass planned (maybe a simple 1st order)
Highpass on the tweet will prolly be a 1st or 2nd order and set pretty high (10-15k) just to get the last octave which the 4's have trouble with.

The 4's I have are the old school wr125s not the new FR125 which plays a bit better above 10k.

For the most part I want to keep the electronics simple.... kiss in the signal.... not so much in the physical install.

[nth09]

sqcomp, why didnt your post came earlier?!?!?! I paid quite abit to get these done over in Singapore. This is excellent.

May I suggest to you to deaden your wheel arch as well. Take out that plastic wheel arch, lay a few pieces of deadening stuff on it. Then cut a few slabs of those gooey black stuff and reach underneath the arch and paste it over the body. It helps to reduce another 20% (my personal feel) of noise.

I like your boot DIY but it is a pity, Toyota doesn't include that black stock carpet cover for our boot. It is going to look horrible with shiny aluminium backing sheets showing.

Nonetheless a very good job indeed.

[sqcomp]

NTH,

For your boot, why don't you order the cover from one of the vendors on Yarisworld? I know that Ken over at sparks Toyota will do whatever he can to help.

You could also get the foam cut well enough to cover the deadening. The nice thing is that the foam is stretchy. It cuts easily but doesn't cut straight because of the give...if that makes sense.

As for the wheel arch, my biggest concern at this moment is the floor pan (including the firewall) and the trunk. After those it'll be the back deck, the roof, and then the dash. By that time I should have the component set. I'll be concentrating on the door panels after modding them with my little install trick. The panels will be HEAVY no doubt. After all this, the system will be in the car and I'll see (or rather hear) how all the resonances reveal themselves with all that power going to the component set. Technically I'll have more power available to the components than the subwoofers (with the way I'll have the woofers loaded). I'm actually a bit anxious to move into the pro categories so that I can have the Exile guys modify the amplifiers...I've seen what they've done to the old PG ZPA and Ti amplifiers...

I'm sure I'll see something interesting when I take out the carpet in the front. I'm really interested to see that dead-pedal removed to see what the driver's side kick looks like overall, the room behind and around the panel are going to be VERY important. I really don't want to go down to the 3" midrange due to the extent of weight and construction time it would add to me putting it up in the a-pillar with the tweeter. It will also add a LOT of weight that the airbag would have to push out of the way if it ever needed to deploy. This midrange is THE focal point of the three way set...seeing as this speaker will be playing the most sensitive range of music that the human ear perceives.

Be ready to take notes on the kick when it happens. This is THE make or break part of the entire install speakerwise.

This whole project is taking up all my free thoughts. All I want to do is work on it, day in and day out. It's a sickness...

[nth09]

Originally Posted by sqcomp

NTH,

For your boot, why don't you order the cover from one of the vendors on Yarisworld? I know that Ken over at sparks Toyota will do whatever he can to help.

You could also get the foam cut well enough to cover the deadening. The nice thing is that the foam is stretchy. It cuts easily but doesn't cut straight because of the give...if that makes sense.

As for the wheel arch, my biggest concern at this moment is the floor pan (including the firewall) and the trunk. After those it'll be the back deck, the roof, and then the dash. By that time I should have the component set. I'll be concentrating on the door panels after modding them with my little install trick. The panels will be HEAVY no doubt. After all this, the system will be in the car and I'll see (or rather hear) how all the resonances reveal themselves with all that power going to the component set. Technically I'll have more power available to the components than the subwoofers (with the way I'll have the woofers loaded). I'm actually a bit anxious to move into the pro categories so that I can have the Exile guys modify the amplifiers...I've seen what they've done to the old PG ZPA and Ti amplifiers...

I'm sure I'll see something interesting when I take out the carpet in the front. I'm really interested to see that dead-pedal removed to see what the driver's side kick looks like overall, the room behind and around the panel are going to be VERY important. I really don't want to go down to the 3" midrange due to the extent of weight and construction time it would add to me putting it up in the a-pillar with the tweeter. It will also add a LOT of weight that the airbag would have to push out of the way if it ever needed to deploy. This midrange is THE focal point of the three way set...seeing as this speaker will be playing the most sensitive range of music that the human ear perceives.

Be ready to take notes on the kick when it happens. This is THE make or break part of the entire install speakerwise.

This whole project is taking up all my free thoughts. All I want to do is work on it, day in and day out. It's a sickness...

i did ask the local dealers on the cover. They are charging ridiculous sky high pricing. I've seen the real thing before. To me, that crap is not worth US$50. Beside, they are selling it at US$80 here. I'm just looking for a chance to DIY.

That is not a sickness, just an obsession to better ICE. I'm on your side. Keep up the good work.

[sqcomp]

Okay,

This week I decided to do the back seat area. This was fairly easy, especially when you know what you’re looking at.

I’m working with a sedan that has the folding seats. The first thing I did was to remove the back seat carpet skirt clips, then the Styrofoam spacer. After that spacer is out there are four 12mm bolts that hold the back seats onto the little sub frame.

I suppose I can start the pictures:



Notice the middle rotating bolt swings. After that you can take off the seat belts from the seats. At this point you have to take the back seat bench cushion off to get at the main seat sub frame. It’s a good tug on both sides that releases the two seat clips from their respective holders. The seat belts will go through the holes (obviously).



I took the seat belts off at this point.



Here’s the right side looking down bird’s eye view at the side seatbelt and frame bolts.



This next one is without the seat belts. The black sub frame piece comes out rather simply with three bolts. You’ll need to remove the side trim panels. Those have a single push clip on the bottom and two on the side that come out rather easily.







With that black sub frame off, I went for the silver seat frame.


There is a front cover to the seat frame. It comes in three pieces. On the little side clips (you’ll know what I mean when you get there), there’s a center piece that you have to push before you take the panel off. Doing two things at once is always fun.



No mas on the frame…ready for the deadening.



The top of the bench with deadening.



I brought the deadening down under the carpeting.



I then laid down some Ensolite.







And then under the carpet…



This is taken from the right side looking forward.



I decided to call it done until next week when I take out the passenger’s seat and move onto the right side up into the foot well and firewall.



There was nothing surprising about putting it all back together. It was all on cruise control at that point. The ride home was interesting. The back of the car was nice and quiet. I’m looking forward to doing the front.

[sqcomp]

Well...I started the removal of the center console and the seats today. This also included some of the trim around the radio and the kick panels. I would have removed the carpeting but I got stuck looking for the correct socket to take the seat bolts off. I thought it was an 8 point socket...nope, it was a reverse torx. This quandry and also helping with a nice little multi media install on a Ford Expedition...that sort of took all the wind out of me today.

At least I've got Saturday off to finish my silencing of the car.

I got so far as to get the passenger's seat being removed (I'll take pics before going to work tomorrow). Hppefully I can get the carpet out tomorrow as well. If I can do that on Thursday and lay down the Roadkill on Friday, that'll give me the opportunity to lay down the ensolite on Saturday and possibly kill the back doors as well.

Heres a pic of the rear of the console after I killed off the rear cup holder trim:



Here's the front of the center console with the radio trim removed:



Here's the radio itself...easy peasy:



Here's the center console after I killed off the two panels that cover the front and mid part of said console:



Of course the removed console. There are two screws on each rear side of the console. You also have two bolts hidden under the little pad in the console storage box. They're the same as the ones on the front that you see when you remove the bottom radio trim piece:





After trying unsuccesfully to remove the seat bolts using the wrong socket type, I went so far as to almost completely remove the dash cover. Only four screws hold the entire dash in. The only real thing that stops the dash from being removed after those four screws is the a pillar trim panels that hold the dash down on each side...anyway, I first took out the cluster trim piece and deadened it on it's most open space (on the bottom):





The instrument cluster. Two harness clips, one on each side. Notice the screws on the bottom of the white part on the cluster. Those are two of the four that hold the entire dash cover on...wait, I think you can also see the other two screw holes...nope, just one on the right side there under the right side cluster screw there...:



Now, here's the shift boot and front part of the console cover:



The radio trim now dead:



Center console dead:











...And the rear panel for the center console (the 12V plug and E-brake):



And the last picture I took of the Yaris panels before the finish of the SUV. This is the left and right cargo pockets at the front of the center console:





Tomorrow, I'll take pics of the removed seat(s) and possibly the removed carpet.

[sqcomp]

Here's the start of the deadening on the passenger's side. I'll be adding the ensolite on Saturday. Tomorrow I may work more to connect the back and front sound deadening on the passenger's side. I left a nice little clip remover at the shop so it's going to be a little bit of a challenge. We'll see what happens.

Without any further...

We're looking at the unimproved passenger's side with the seat removed (obviously):



Here's the carpeting moved back:



And with all the miscellaneous factory "stuff" removed:



Here's the kick:



The first layer goes down:



The second layer without the center being covered:





And with the center being covered:





Starting on the kick:



More of the top side of the floor pan:



Here's the front mounting crossmember:





Here's an overall picture. I ended up putting two layers overall with three layers in some spots:



And with the carpeting and the little factory inserts back in:



I may have to put the passenger's seat back in so the seat belt alarm doesn't annoy the shit out of me on the way to and from work...more to come tomorrow.

[sqcomp]

Friday's pre-work action...

The driver's side of the Yaris. I only had two sheets of Roadkill to work with. I'll finish up tomorrow with maybe a half a sheet on the floor panel. I'll connect the front and back deadening on Saturday along with a couple layers of ensolite. The noise floor in the car is already noticably lower. If I have time tomorrow, I'll do the rear doors. Aside from the roof and the rear deck, the cabin will be finished.

Without further...

Driver's side sans seat:





You'll have to remove the 10mm bolt that secures the trunk pop and fuel door. The piece is also connected by a slot clip. After you remove the bolt, nudge the unit forward and up cautiously. Try not to break the back clip, notice that clip on the second picture:





Here's the floor pan with the factory foam and padding:



...And a bare floor pan:



The start of the deadening:



Almost finished...I just ran out of Roadkill:

[talnlnky]

What'd you think of the rear passenger foot area? In the hatchback that was the only place I went 3 layers thick (all else was one or two). I probably would've done up to 5 if I had 2 rolls of raammat when I was doing it.

[WolfWings]

Yeah... I went 3 layers thick there in a couple spots myself on my LB. I *DID* go 5 layers thick on the rear quarter-panels on my 3dr though.

[talnlnky]

Originally Posted by WolfWings

Yeah... I went 3 layers thick there in a couple spots myself on my LB. I *DID* go 5 layers thick on the rear quarter-panels on my 3dr though.

see thats the great thing about my planned install... No subs in the back, so no need to go crazy on that part of the car.

I will however have 8" midbass drivers with a one way x-max of 12mm in each door being chocked with 160rms each. Which means my doors have to be dead as forged aluminum otherwise i'll go crazy.

[yaris-me]

Amazing! This should be a sticky!

[808_Yaris]

this should be a diy!