Toyota Yaris Forums - Ultimate Yaris Enthusiast Site
 

 


 
Go Back   Toyota Yaris Forums - Ultimate Yaris Enthusiast Site > Technical Forums > Forced Induction Forum
  The Tire Rack

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-04-2017, 10:42 AM   #1
MugenRep
iQ innovator & researcher
 
MugenRep's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 iQ
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 173
Decisions.....Turbo, Supercharger, or Phantom ESC???

The time for my project has come.....

I've recently gotten the approval from my wife to do a type of forced induction on my project. I'm approved for a all in budget of $6,000 that will be available by summer, as we have finally paid off all our debts sans mortgage. Being quite a high budget, I don't necessarily want to spend it all on a forced induction system and I'm trying to thoroughly check pros and cons of each setup.

Before anybody says anything else, I know $6000, plus selling or trading in my car would free up enough money to get something sportier, but I have decided against this path, and only want to continue with this car at this time.


My options so far that I've concluded are a little large, and I've not come to a clear decision on which would be the best path. Also now that you've read this far, I'll make it clear that the vehicle in question IS NOT a Yaris. It is actually a Toyota iQ, but since it uses the 1NR-FE, which is pretty much a backwards lower displacement 1NZ-FE and according to Gazoo and Motorweek the suspension is based on the Yaris, so being the cousin to the Yaris, I thought perhaps folks in Yaris World would be willing to be helpful to my questions.




Options



1. Zage Turbo Kit

Cheapest option new at $1500 shipped

I really like this option, and Focus_Sh1ft has shown how versatile the option can be. However, on the 1NR-FE engine there are a few concerns.



-The oil filter, is no longer a canister style and it now a Wix insert filter into the metal oil housing. This makes an oil feel line more complicated as I can't do a simple oil sandwich and run it to the turbo.

-The 1NR-FE is MUCH higher compression at 11.5:1. Not out of the question especially since it's port injection and from the factory can run on 87 octane, so the stock ECU is used to retarding the timing in order to not detonate. I also have a CamCon and Emanage blue for fuel and timing control and would not exceed 4-7psi after a tune.

-Since the block is rotated 180 degrees on the iQ, more than likely I'd have to get a different turbo manifold and I'm unsure of what would work. Is this a TD style flange, some sort of custom Zage flange, or something different?



2. Power Enterprise iQ specific Rotrex kit

Most expensive option at $3500 shipped from Japan

-Although this is specific to the chassis/engine, it's still not a bolt on to the vehicle and requires wiring extensions and modification to the Rotrex idler pulley on LHD versus RHD. Sounds strange, but it's true.



-This is the exact same kit as what is supplied with the GRMN Gazoo Racing iQ and the only gentleman in the US who has it has posted it has made 110whp/101tq at 5psi with the Power Enterprise P-Map piggy back ECU. Recently he purchased a smaller pulley, ran E85 (I'm never going to) and made 139whp, so more than enough to be sufficient to a 2000lb. vehicle, just not sure the cost is worth it if the Zage or Phantom can do similar.

-With this kit, I'd also need to get a header made to take full advantage and I've been quoted around $150 for one.

-Rotrex supercharges, I'm unsure of how reliable they are or what the cost of a rebuild will be or what and how often I'd need to change the Rotrex oil or cost associated with it.


3. Phantom ESC supercharger

Second most expensive at $1600-$1900 used

-Definitely the least known here, but have been following this project for years on FT86 forum. Essentially it's a ebay turbo intake housing attached to a brushless RC motor that spins to 50000 rpms with 2 Deka ETX16 batteries used as "dump packs" and a starter battery for the vehicles ignition/electrical system. I know anybody reading this is going to think it's a crock of sh!t, but if you look at the ft86 boards, you'll see the hundreds of pages associated with this.



-This is a more ON/OFF systems and requires either WOT or 75% throttle to engage and the higher up in the RPM band you go, the low the boost as it is not variable and only spins at one speed, 50000rpms. The more rpms you run the less efficient it is. It starts around 5psi and around 6000rpms boost drops to 2psi. So it's only really good for low to mid range power and since an iQ uses a CVT, it almost negates the entire boosted system.

-Easiest to set up, basically fits on the end of the air intake or throttle body, disregards the factory battery to be replaced by 3 other batteries and can be used on any car for the most part.

-Phantom has stopped production temporarily with the FT86 chassis in order to make a better brushless motor controller allowing linear boost as well as to set it up for the new ND Miata chassis, so getting any help with replacement parts or info, or otherwise wouldn't be possible until the engineer has finished on the ND chassis

4. 1ZZ TRD Supercharger

- The cons to this are that it will need another extension, like the TOOTER spacer in order for the M45 to clear the valve cover on the iQ, however this seems to be the most reliable option IF IT CAN BE MADE TO FIT.




-Because of the Lotus crew along with other Toyota people, this kit is hard to find and almost always over $1800 used now that Toyota has discontinued them it's become even harder to find.

-Being an Eaton blower, lots of pulley choices from the Mini, GM QuadCam setups, etc. so boost would be easy to determine/fix if needed.

-With no ability to check measurements or otherwise, it'd be a gamble of $2000.00 theoretically, require a lot of downtime for my iQ (no longer daily driven), and may or may not work.

5. Blitz Supercharger

-Again, like the 1ZZ TRD, would need a spacer to be used to extend my intake manifold to make it clear the valve cover.



-Measurements are the same for the 1NR and 1NZ for the snout to accessory pullies, although I'm unsure what crank pulley would do with Blitz bp psi-wise.

-Rebuilding the Ogura supercharger is a nightmare looking at CrankyOldMan's threads, so that alone may instantly eliminate this option.




I'm just curious of others opinions, experiences with certain forced induction, etc. Thank you in advance for reading this and I appreciate the feedback and opinions.
MugenRep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 04:21 PM   #2
thebarber
daily driver
 
thebarber's Avatar
 
Drives: 04 echo RS
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 5,589
find a log style turbo manifold for the 1nrfe and go custom turbo setup since it look like everything is more or less custom anyhow
__________________
thebarber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 05:47 PM   #3
why?
Only Happy When it Rains
 
why?'s Avatar
 
Drives: Yaris LB
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: harnett county NC
Posts: 4,129
Yea, talk to local shops and local people that have turboed their cars. Sounds like even a zage kit needs modification, so you can probably find someone local that is use to playing with turbos and can make you a kit and install it for less.

Then their are iq boards, there have to be a few crazy iq people that have added forced induction, just see what they did and how they overcame the challenges you mentioned.
__________________
Colin Chapman disciple
why? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 06:37 PM   #4
yarisugi
やりすぎだ~
 
yarisugi's Avatar
 
Drives: Me: Nuts:
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: ハワイ
Posts: 1,993
#2
yarisugi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 10:16 PM   #5
SirDigby
 
Drives: 2007 yaris 3 door
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 724
I wonder why they (ESC) don't run a resistance ballast on the motor controlled by the tps? I think I might make my own...
SirDigby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2017, 09:25 AM   #6
MugenRep
iQ innovator & researcher
 
MugenRep's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 iQ
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebarber View Post
find a log style turbo manifold for the 1nrfe and go custom turbo setup since it look like everything is more or less custom anyhow
Exhaust headers or turbo manifolds just need their flanges flipped 180 degrees and they'll work fine, so top versus bottom mount for a turbo, or cut and weld a NA header. Either way, the oil feed and return lines shouldn't have a problem if they aren't too short or considerably too long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by why? View Post
Yea, talk to local shops and local people that have turboed their cars. Sounds like even a zage kit needs modification, so you can probably find someone local that is use to playing with turbos and can make you a kit and install it for less.

Then their are iq boards, there have to be a few crazy iq people that have added forced induction, just see what they did and how they overcame the challenges you mentioned.
There's a few locals here. I've dealt with turbo setups before, particularly my 1990 mustang with a 2.3T swap from an 88' Turbo Coupe, 86' Starion ESI-R, SRT4 Caliber, and 1987 XR4TI. But they were all factory and I've never done an aftermarket kit onto an NA engine. Really good Idea though.

Do you have links to Boosted iQs? Other than Daniel form FL, a gentleman from Germany, and several people on the Minkara JP group, I've yet to see anybody else and I'm quite active on the EU boards, US boards, Facebook groups, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yarisugi View Post
#2
This is kinda the way I'm leaning. Other than extending some wiring, it seems to be the easiest albeit most expensive option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirDigby View Post
I wonder why they (ESC) don't run a resistance ballast on the motor controlled by the tps? I think I might make my own...
You should. The guy does it as a side business and he does produce a decent product, but his customer service and timeliness have something to be desired. For a popular product, one would think at $1800/pop (batteries not included, LOL) and a waiting line through the door, you'd be jumping on it sooner. Below I'll leave a bunch of info. It'd be nice to see the idiot get some competition and lose some sales for his poor customer service.

Build Discussion on the RC Boards...
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...r-supercharger

Install and Explanation Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX-FYAelttg

Owners Thread
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...=66862&page=80

Build/info/signup thread
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39719

Current waiting list of ft86 members wanting a kit with cash supposedly....
dpgfunk
Brady68usa
Deslock
phrosty
Caspian
ShadowTS
mglasgow
jtree
JimmyMac
buckseventysix
iConformed
R3NIK
Joshwahhhs
ImBatman
Andrew025
onetime4
tyrantcf
propulsion1
BillyStrato
shellslinger
R2
NAISU86
Wolfdogelite
stevo585
Yoda
SilverFRS
Njmarkc
Cop
isnotmyfault
blackforge
Aussie
Dustin2Jz
LucidMomentum
Trunksse
Studer21
cdq85
jzimmer801
Talus1
silverbullet
m111
Phantobe
Saturn10
qitorr
btoast
soon...
Ingen
jflBRZ
P5yk0t1c
dlux
Gutterboy
triethyl
xsnapshot
Motoarge
Siby_86
Windex73
Infidel86
xuimod
Tectoniic
BBDGriptonia
swarb
Huge
kid_wh
Cypher009
focobrz
dreamwonder
apaull
ajcarson11
BRZ Fanboi
iJeff
can't stop spinning
Psnguyen
F3RGY68
Lrk322 lanekrarup
Lord09
FatFree
mythhelios
Mrrksturr
svuong
SuperJimmyK
Aztec
Fever
Norkoastal
MugenReplica
RamCro
chezzy79
Kpage
gmanvilla1
Flow
jackblack21
illmatic_frs
kritch
huhuei2008
soulreapersteve
Johnrad
Bluehwy
danielwarren1
shadowhntr
immaculate
BirdTRD
SLC BRZ
Abe1120
Quasar Kid
klear
a3l3e9x4
dgoodhue
AtomAnt
Cole
nnyath
Randomfool
sLoPy
dpgfunk
Brady68usa
Deslock
phrosty
Caspian
ShadowTS
mglasgow
jtree
JimmyMac
buckseventysix
iConformed
R3NIK
Joshwahhhs
ImBatman
Andrew025
onetime4
tyrantcf
propulsion1
BillyStrato
shellslinger
R2
NAISU86
Wolfdogelite
stevo585
Yoda
SilverFRS
Njmarkc
Cop
isnotmyfault
blackforge
Aussie
Dustin2Jz
LucidMomentum
Trunksse
Studer21
cdq85
jzimmer801
Talus1
silverbullet
m111
Phantobe
Saturn10
qitorr
btoast
soon...
Ingen
jflBRZ
P5yk0t1c
dlux
Gutterboy
triethyl
xsnapshot
Motoarge
Siby_86
Windex73
Infidel86
xuimod
Tectoniic
BBDGriptonia
swarb
Huge
kid_wh
Cypher009
focobrz
dreamwonder
apaull
ajcarson11
BRZ Fanboi
iJeff
can't stop spinning
Psnguyen
F3RGY68
Lrk322 lanekrarup
Lord09
FatFree
mythhelios
Mrrksturr
svuong
SuperJimmyK
Aztec
Fever
Norkoastal
MugenReplica
RamCro
chezzy79
Kpage
gmanvilla1
Flow
jackblack21
illmatic_frs
kritch
huhuei2008
soulreapersteve
Johnrad
Bluehwy
danielwarren1
shadowhntr
immaculate
BirdTRD
SLC BRZ
Abe1120
Quasar Kid
klear
a3l3e9x4
dgoodhue
AtomAnt
Cole
nnyath
Randomfool
sLoPy
Westyfield2
h@zmat
seant2h
Reamer
Zephyros18
Ryder86
Jkeim
supasixfo
MugenRep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2017, 10:01 PM   #7
Golddeenoh
Takes corners too fast!
 
Golddeenoh's Avatar
 
Drives: Absolute Red 2009 Yaris HB
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 830
have you considered doing and engine swap and then some mild forced induction?

6k budget seems pretty good for such a project and it would net a starting point that is around 130hp before boost. How different is your engine bay as far as space? if you engine bay is basically the same as the yaris, then a swap might net you the best results, and a swap without boost would definitely get you some drive-ability.

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56031
__________________
mods:15''Drag DR21 w/Nitto NeoGen 205/50R15, Tanabe DF210 lowering springs 1.6/1.8, TRD Rear Sway Bar, Tanabe Front Sway Bar, Micro Image Short Throw Shift Kit (both in and under), 8.64lbs flywheel, F1 Stage 4 Clutch, AEM Cold Air Intake (Red), Megan Racing Header, DC Sports Axle Back Exhaust, Micro Image Crank Pulley, NST lite Alternator Pulley, ARP Manifold Stud Kit,Tanabe Front Strut Tower Brace, ScanGuage II, Micro Image Silicone Radiator Hose Kit (Red), NRG Carbon Fiber Shift Knob (round), 2009-2011 Toyota Yaris Liftback Foglight kit, NRG Grounding Kit (Red), Hella Horns(Red),CF Hood
Golddeenoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2017, 10:34 PM   #8
invader166
Pumpman
 
Drives: Modified 2009 Yaris Hatchback
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Coquitlam, BC
Posts: 408
Hmmm...interesting scenario, i gotta say.

My only question is, do you want to make reliable power, or do you simply not care? More power!!...regardless of cost!
__________________
Also drives: 2017 Kia Soul EX+

"I would rather loose by a mile in a car I built myself, then win by an inch in a car that was built for me." - Moog
invader166 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2017, 10:51 PM   #9
CrankyOldMan
2ZR swap. DO IT! Ask how!
 
CrankyOldMan's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 Meteoric Metallic HB
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 1,798
Having had a Blitz S/C on my 1NZ before I swapped to the 2ZR, I can say that a belt driven/positive displacement compressor is a blast! I would also advocate the PE-Rotrex kit, as someone else has done the hard and expensive work of fitting it to your vehicle. No messing with the exhaust, little or no modifications, and can probably be done in a weekend with minimal tools.

I guess it all comes down to what you can do yourself vs. what you want to have done ahead of time. If you can weld exhaust, tune a piggyback or standalone ECU, and have more time than money, then go with a turbo. If you're less skilled mechanically but can turn wrenches and follow instruction sheets, go with the Rotrex kit. Trust me, the time you spend figuring things out on your own is incredibly expensive from an opportunity cost, and you end up being the only person who can fix it. I don't think too many shops are interested in messing with someone's custom cobble job (mine included), and may charge a hefty premium to touch it if it goes wrong.
CrankyOldMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2017, 10:42 AM   #10
MugenRep
iQ innovator & researcher
 
MugenRep's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 iQ
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 173
I did find a complete Greddy Mp45 kit somewhat local to me for the xB. With a intake manifold spacer and maybe even without , it should bolt right up to the secondary intake runners, then all that would be needed would be a idler pulley and there are tons of options for that.

Unlike the other kits the manifold is straight, no curves so would be easy to mount.
MugenRep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2017, 11:05 AM   #11
Bluevitz-rs
1NZ-6spd Turbo
 
Bluevitz-rs's Avatar
 
Drives: '05 6-Spd Vitz RS Turbo
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Courtice, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,825
Rotrex kit.

I've seen the engine bay of an iQ, there's no room for anything in there. If someone has already developed a kit to fit in there with the hood shut, go with that. The only thing I'd add is a small water to air intercooler to manage intake temps and make a few more HPs.
Bluevitz-rs is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Zage Turbo Kit Install - Toyota Yaris Focus_Sh1ft Forced Induction Forum 139 07-07-2017 01:26 PM
List of Boosted Yarisworld Members whooppee777 Forced Induction Forum 260 05-20-2016 01:31 AM
Turbo or supercharger? TheEggYaris Performance Modifications 18 05-04-2013 09:39 AM
Hyundai Turbo Veloster 150kw *MAD DOG* Off-topic / Other Cars / Everything else Discussions 6 01-10-2012 12:35 AM
Supercharger or Turbo????? window_lee General Yaris / Vitz Discussion 10 05-10-2009 04:39 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:55 AM.




YarisWorld
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.