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Old 04-05-2009, 05:57 PM   #1
la_scanner
 
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Question did autolite spark plugs screw up coil or coils ??

okay, so this is still regarding the issue i posted before. disel into engine. that fuel drained, put in autolite plugs, got car running. car seems perfect. was told its the plugs that are causing light to be on. denso plugs installed, light off, then back on. i buy code reader. it tells me code p0420. i call mechanic and tell him light is back on and he says okay, then it must be the coil. i ask, what do you mean. says coil 1 needs to be swapped with #4 and #4 needs to be swapped with #1. why is it that from the amount of EXACT DETAIL that i had in my previous posts about the car. not ONE person has said anything about any sort of coil. i even did a search on here for the word COIL. Wow, nothing in search results. I have seen from reading many posts on here way before i was ever a member. the amount of people on here saying, wow, thanks guys. you were all right. my mechanic or dealership, etc tells me this yet you guys have the real answers. so to me, someone that is not too good with this type of stuff. it tells me to go with what your all saying and not trust the local mechanic.

So would putting diesel into yaris have fouled coil or coils? how about would cheap autolite spark plugs have fouled coils? both combined? yes? no? maybe? no way in hell?
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Old 04-05-2009, 06:03 PM   #2
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ive seen incorrect spark plugs damage coils before. which is why i always use oes plugs
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Old 04-05-2009, 06:29 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by YarisSedan View Post
ive seen incorrect spark plugs damage coils before. which is why i always use oes plugs
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Old 04-05-2009, 06:43 PM   #4
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If the Autolite plugs installed in your car were the XP3924 you mentioned in one of your other threads, then you had the correct replacement plug specified for your vehicle. Not the OEM brand, but they should have worked just fine, without damaging other components of the vehicle.

And the diesel could not have fried a coil.
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Old 04-05-2009, 07:15 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by OK Yaris View Post
If the Autolite plugs installed in your car were the XP3924 you mentioned in one of your other threads, then you had the correct replacement plug specified for your vehicle. Not the OEM brand, but they should have worked just fine, without damaging other components of the vehicle.

And the diesel could not have fried a coil.
Yes. those were the ones that were installed.

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Old 04-05-2009, 07:41 PM   #6
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A bad coil will cause drivability problems but if the cars running fine then the coils should be fine.
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Old 04-05-2009, 08:29 PM   #7
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Well if you look one spark plug cost 5.95 and another spark plug cost 20-28 dollars depending where you purchase them there has to be a difference. One is designed by a oe manufacture for ford and one is a oe manufacture for toyota. Me personally i would rather get the part from toyota. From my experience autolite starters, and autolight altenators and batterys are pieces of junk. My friend works at kragens and he says he gets a rediculiouse amount of warrenty returns on them. So i would not use a spark plug made by that particular brand in my vehicle. Either denso or ngk is all i would use. All we know is many users have had no problems with coil failures and users that have had coil failures reported using a alternative plug. Search all the posts for coil failures you will find what i am saying has some sense to it. I remember last month if orget the brand but it was suposily some high performance plug some user had problems with failed coil as well.

From my own personally experience the only coils i have changed on cars when i removed the plug it was either extremely worn out or a different type of plug.
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Old 04-05-2009, 08:45 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by YarisSedan View Post
Well if you look one spark plug cost 5.95 and another spark plug cost 20-28 dollars depending where you purchase them there has to be a difference. One is designed by a oe manufacture for ford and one is a oe manufacture for toyota. Me personally i would rather get the part from toyota. From my experience autolite starters, and autolight altenators and batterys are pieces of junk. My friend works at kragens and he says he gets a rediculiouse amount of warrenty returns on them. So i would not use a spark plug made by that particular brand in my vehicle. Either denso or ngk is all i would use.
True. from what i read and have heard from you guys. even on phone with autozone an hour ago. i now know that AUTOLITE = CRAP. I have always been one that says you get what you pay for. at the time when those were put in. i was just trying to get car running without having to have my grandma hastle with it. so even though its junk, it's still the correct TYPE of plug. also, when i was on phone with autozone, the guy sounded pretty knowledgeable and said that in his opinion my mechanic is trying to help by saving us money by trying other things first. autozone dude recommended new o2 sensors and for me to try seafoam. i guess i should now look into this. and the worst thing he said was that yes the cat would be under warranty, but said labor would not be. probably would end up costing at least $1,000. when you think about it, thats a lot of money to spend on a $13,000 vehicle. no ones fault though other then on my end.
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Old 04-05-2009, 09:11 PM   #9
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Can't argue with Autozone Dude. Good Luck!
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Old 04-05-2009, 10:49 PM   #10
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The Denso plugs have an Iridium tip which can last for 100,000 miles. That is why they cost so much. So long as the tips aren't broken or damaged, they should be usable with the proper gap. You need to find a mechanic that will diagnose your problem.
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Old 04-05-2009, 11:30 PM   #11
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Okay ill try to help you best i can. P0420 id say 75 percent of the time this code is on for any car that comes into my shop it means the catalitic converter is bad. other 25 percent it is a o2 sensor. If you want to try to diagnose this yourself you would need a scanner even a cheap generic scanner that shows live data. You should be able to see o2 sensor voltage before the cat and o2 sensor voltage behind the cat. If the voltage is the same than more than likely the cat is to blame.

If you want to test the o2 response you can introduce fuel into the system and see if the o2 responds by spiking the voltage. You can do this with propane gas entering the intake you should see the mixture go rich and the fuel trim start to max out. Or if not available you can try carb cleaner.

If the o2s respond properly then the cat is the problem.

Anotherway to test the cat is purchase a pyrometer. It shoots a beam and measures the temperature of whatever it is aimed upon. Measure the temperature before the cat and after. The exhaust gas as it enters the cat gets heated up to burn off any unburned fuel in the combustion chamber. Usually the temperature is 100 degrees hotter exiting the cat. If the temperature is the same both inlet and outlet or is even cooler in the outlet then you know for sure the cat is bad. A cheapo pyrometer could run you around 40-50 bucks same as a generic obd2 scanner.

If you find out the case the cat is bad which it probally is after thourouly reading your post then i would say take it to a muffler shop and make sur eyou get a OBD2 CALIFORNIA APPROVED catalitic converter. I would try replacing the main cat first and leaving the precat alone. Then clearing the code and see if the light stays off.

After reading your othe rposts. I dont know why your mechanic would suggest a coil. Unless your car is missfiring with a blinking check engine light. You have no coil problems. Plus any decent mechanic should know how to test coil winding resistance to verifiy if it needs to be replaced or not.

What i would reccomend is putting a can of seafoam in the gas tank. As well as running a can through a vaccum line through the intake. It has cleaning properties which will clean the tips of the o2 sensors as well as clean the cat of debri.
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Old 04-06-2009, 05:12 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by YarisSedan View Post
Okay ill try to help you best i can. P0420 id say 75 percent of the time this code is on for any car that comes into my shop it means the catalitic converter is bad. other 25 percent it is a o2 sensor. If you want to try to diagnose this yourself you would need a scanner even a cheap generic scanner that shows live data. You should be able to see o2 sensor voltage before the cat and o2 sensor voltage behind the cat. If the voltage is the same than more than likely the cat is to blame.

If you want to test the o2 response you can introduce fuel into the system and see if the o2 responds by spiking the voltage. You can do this with propane gas entering the intake you should see the mixture go rich and the fuel trim start to max out. Or if not available you can try carb cleaner.

If the o2s respond properly then the cat is the problem.

Anotherway to test the cat is purchase a pyrometer. It shoots a beam and measures the temperature of whatever it is aimed upon. Measure the temperature before the cat and after. The exhaust gas as it enters the cat gets heated up to burn off any unburned fuel in the combustion chamber. Usually the temperature is 100 degrees hotter exiting the cat. If the temperature is the same both inlet and outlet or is even cooler in the outlet then you know for sure the cat is bad. A cheapo pyrometer could run you around 40-50 bucks same as a generic obd2 scanner.

If you find out the case the cat is bad which it probally is after thourouly reading your post then i would say take it to a muffler shop and make sur eyou get a OBD2 CALIFORNIA APPROVED catalitic converter. I would try replacing the main cat first and leaving the precat alone. Then clearing the code and see if the light stays off.

After reading your othe rposts. I dont know why your mechanic would suggest a coil. Unless your car is missfiring with a blinking check engine light. You have no coil problems. Plus any decent mechanic should know how to test coil winding resistance to verifiy if it needs to be replaced or not.

What i would reccomend is putting a can of seafoam in the gas tank. As well as running a can through a vaccum line through the intake. It has cleaning properties which will clean the tips of the o2 sensors as well as clean the cat of debri.
Hey, why can't your shop be closer to me dammit! maybe i should exchange my code reader i got at sears and get a better one that does the live data. i bought the innova 1003 b. also i know for sure that check engine light has never blinked.
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:48 AM   #13
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As long as the car seems to be running rel good, just drive it. It will take a while to clean out the cats after being loaded with oil. Take it out on the highway and run it full throttle third gear 3-5000 rpm 5 sec, then give it 1 min rest then another five second burst. Do this about 5 times. This should burn off whatever is in the cat and heat up and burn off whatever is on the 02 sensor. Fuel oil is not as nasty as motor oil afa killing the catalyst or the sensor since it doesnt have nearly as much metalsalts in it ( ash). If this doesnt work and the car drives good and gets good gas mileage (>35mpg) then just drive w/o fixing it until its time to get an emissions inspection.
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:51 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by yaris-me View Post
The Denso plugs have an Iridium tip which can last for 100,000 miles. That is why they cost so much. So long as the tips aren't broken or damaged, they should be usable with the proper gap. You need to find a mechanic that will diagnose your problem.
Sometimes if you glaze over the plugg insulator tip it will short to the nut and start misfiring. Only way out is to replace. This is usually caused by some oil fouling, then hard operation. The metals in the oils plate out on the insulator and then its no longer an insulator - its a resistor. -
I agree with you that the OP needs a good mech to diagnose his probs. Now where can he find a good mech .... Any recs from guys around where the OP dwells?
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Old 04-06-2009, 11:18 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by la_scanner View Post
Hey, why can't your shop be closer to me dammit! maybe i should exchange my code reader i got at sears and get a better one that does the live data. i bought the innova 1003 b. also i know for sure that check engine light has never blinked.

Hmmm the scanner i use the most is the craftsman one just because its so fast and has live data capability with emission monitors. And go back to the shops snapon one if i need to do abs or some manufacture specific testing.

this is what you need.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/U381-LIVE-DATA-S...3A1%7C294%3A50


56 bucks and can do nearly everything a professional scanner can do.
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Old 04-06-2009, 11:22 AM   #16
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Just BTW if the cat is deteriorated i wouldnt drive the car too long that way before fixing it. Cause what happens now the remanining active catalist will have to work on overdrive cause probally the precat is toast as well as the front portion of the main cat. Eventually it can get so plugged that it causes a exhaust restriction.

Its rare but long term driving on plugged cat can cause head gasket failure. All that exhaust gasses and pressure has to go somewhere. I have seen for the first time in my life 2 weeks ago a car that had a exhaust leak by the exhaust manifold that was not the manifold gasket or manifold cracked. But leaking from the cylinder head. We changed the exhaust gasket thinking thats where the exhaust leak was from cause you could feel the air if you put your hand there. And were like wtf its still making a exhaust leak. Sure enough pulled the head and the gasket was blown in that area.
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Old 04-09-2009, 10:25 AM   #17
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Okay, so if you guys remember me posting on here about mechanic telling me to bring car in saying that he needs to switch coil 1 with coil 4 and coil 4 with coil 1. well i did it last night. just for fun. heres what i came up with. the check engine light was on immediately. i then put back to normal (or how it was b4 i touched it) then i reset light. and so now i will wait again and see when light comes on again. this is fun.

Report#: 7
Report Date: 4-9-2009 (12:18 AM)

Vehicle Year: 2007
Vehicle Make: Toyota
Vehicle Model: YARIS


Stored:
P0354 Ignition Coil D Primary/Secondary Circuit

Pending:
P0304 Cylinder 4 Misfire Detected

MIL ON
MisFire Monitor Complete
Fuel System Monitor Complete
Comprehensive Component Monitor Complete
Catalyst Monitor Not Complete
Heated Catalyst Monitor Not Supported
Evaporative System Monitor Not Complete
Secondary Air System Monitor Not Supported
A/C System Refrigerant Monitor Not Supported
Oxygen Sensor Monitor Not Complete
Oxygen Sensor Heater Monitor Complete
EGR System Monitor Not Supported

DTC for which Freeze Frame was Stored P0354
Fuel System 1 Status Open Loop
Fuel System 2 Status Not Supported
Calculated LOAD Value 41.18 %
Engine Coolant Temp 123.80 F
Short Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1 0.00 %
Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1 -4.69 %
Engine RPM 1363 rpm
Vehicle Speed Sensor 0.00 mph
Ignition Timing Advance #1 Cylinder 8.50
Intake Air Temperature 71.60 F
Air Flow Rate Mass Air Flow Sensor 0.56 lb/min
Absolute Throttle Position 19.22 %
Time Since Engine Start 0 sec
Bank 1 - Sensor 1 Equivalence Ratio 1.00
Bank 1 - Sensor 1 O2S Voltage 3.30 V
Commanded Evaporative Purge 0.00 %
# Warm-ups since DTC Cleared 0
Distance since DTC Cleared 1.86 mi
Barometric Pressure 28.64 inHg
Bank 1 - Sensor 1 Equivalence Ratio 1.00
Bank 1 - Sensor 1 O2S Current 0.00 mA
Catalyst Temperature Bank 1 - Sensor 1 914.90 F
Catalyst Temperature Bank 1 - Sensor 2 661.46 F
Control Module Voltage 13.89 V
Absolute Load Value 20.78 %
Commanded Equivalence Ratio 0.87
Relative Throttle Position 0.00 %
Absolute Throttle Position B 51.76 %
Accelerator Pedal Position D 16.08 %
Accelerator Pedal Position E 31.76 %
Commanded Throttle Actuator 18.82 %
Time since DTC Cleared 0 hr 19 min
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Old 04-09-2009, 11:47 AM   #18
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Okay so before it had a code for a coil problem but not a missfire. Now you have a code for a missfire but not a coil. 3 things can cause a missfire. mechanical, electrical, or fuel related. We can probally rule out mechanical as compression is most likely good. So you are left with 2 other options electrical or fuel. Again you probally do not have a clogged fuel injector so your missfire is now probally caused by electrical problem. Either a faulty spark plug or ignition coil.

OBD 2 systems go by trip cycles. You have to fail 2 trip cycles before a code will trip the check engine light. So within 2 trips you have had 2 consecutive missfires. But you havent had 2 trips of detected coil problems. Unlike before you had 2 trips of coil related problems but not 2 missfires detected yet.

So what you would have to do is drive the vehicle until it shows coil problem cylinder 4. I do not know the resistance specs for the coil. But i think you can test the coil windings with a ohm meter. You can purchase one for as cheap as 10 dollars. You can test the resistance of the suspected faulty one. And compare it to the readings of the other ones. If the reading is drasticly different on one you have found your culprit.

Otherwise you could try swapping the plugs and see if the missfire follows the plug. Or simply just replace them all. If the missfire dosnt follow the coil or plug. Put your ohm meter on the connector that goes to the coil. Rare but its possibly to have a open or short in the harness.

But if that were the case the car would be running like crap with a blinking check engine light severely missfiring.
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